Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

And by the same token, may we not have the over-reactionary wave of bullsh*t from the anti's, too?

Just a thought, like - I mean, none of this "two camps" b*llocks would exist were it not for the "Rafa is an idiot" propaganda of the window-licking minority.

You know - the same minority who obviously know best and have proved it over many years in top-flight football...

There's a difference though Lando, and it's a non too subtle one. People who are classed as "anti" in the main come on and talk about the game/the manager/the players/the tactics/the substitutions.

The "pro's" (not the right term but you know what I mean) then attack THE POSTER and not the football points raised. They attack the very right of the person to even hold such an opinion, they question his/her legitimacy as a fan etc and it just gets boring.

If people don't think Keane should have been brought on, or do think Kuyt is a lone striker, then say so. Simply implying somebody is a c... though for holding an opinion which is different to the manager without explaining why is boring. Like I said, this thread is quite clear what it's all about by the title of it.

So why then do people attack the positive posters? "Get your head out the f*cking clouds", "Get back to kissing Rafa's a*se", "Take the rose-tinted specs off and get your head out of Rafa's a*se", etc, etc, etc.

The simple fact is this:

The reason people don't like Rafa is because they either don't understand his methods, or, in certain cases, because he's not British.

His record speaks for itself. The "enduring" arguments go thus:

"Fergie is a legend, Rafa isn't worthy of blah, blah, blah."

The problem we have here, is that these mentally-challenged individuals who spout that forget that "Fergie" (What's that all about?) took 7-odd years to win the title.

It bothers me immensely when the glaringly obvious differences in the challenges faced by the individual gaffers is ignored to propagate the Anti-Rafa Brigade's campaign of hate.

But still - let's all sit here and listen to the negative, hate-filled bile of the bigoted few against a man who does nothing but his best for the club, the bunch of ungrateful little tiny-knobbed b*stards.

[Lando_Griffin]

So realistically without Torres, goals were always likely to be a problem, what I didn't expect was our defensive frailties.

Defensively S@int the stats aren't too bad, but I've been increasingly concerned over these last few weeks about the  slight styling which is going on.

The centre halves are seemingly rotated dependant on the opposition, and whether or not they occasionally sling a high ball into the box. Hyppia plays sometimes, Agger the others. It doesn't really work ona  regualr basis, we've tried it before so we know, it doesn't work. Yes if you're playing a modern day Wimbledon it makes sense to draught Sami in, but we know from experience if you rotate the centre-halves refgularly you suffer eventually.

Equally, at full back why did Insua play at Blackburn? Dossena can't be tired surely as he has probably played one game in two. Dossena had infact put a couple of decentish performances in, so why play Insua? You could then argue, having taken the decision to play him, why not leave him in as he had a solid enough debut?

Instead we rotate it back, Dossena comes back in and he and Riera on the evidence of the first goal today don't communicate with each other.

In all honesty, from a defensive point of view Dossena is absolutely awful, and if there's a worse defender at left back in the Premiership I haven't seen him yet. Having said that, the fella Abissomour Abou or whatever the feck he was called who played for Spurs against us was absolutely awful, and I think he might have been a left back.

Whatever anyway, too much styling in defence and too much Dossena.

So now it's wrong to take the "worst ever signing" out and give a kid a chance?

It gets better, it really does!

Did you miss the part where Riera didn't start against Blackburn, perhaps meaning that Insua was a better partner for Babel?

Or is it just par for the course that you slag Rafa off instead of looking at the actual facts?

It seems fairly obvious that Insua is the better defender, but Dossena the better attacker. Given Riera's willingness to track back, and Babel's inability in this area, could it possibly be that Insua was picked to;

a.) Prove himself,
b.) Add defensive strength in the absence of a willing winger,
c.) Take the anticipated physical battle typical of Balckburn's approach?

You'd have thought we'd have lost the game, the way you're having another pop...

Give it a rest, for chuff's sake.

[Lando_Griffin]

I know Rafa paid 8mil for Dossena but I thought Insua played ok against Blackburn and felt he should have gotten the nod ahead of Dossena. What has Dossena done to earn his place in the squad?

To be honest I would have preferred if we had lost today so more focus would be shifted on Dossena and his inability to defend. At least that way Rafa might have opened his eyes to how shyte he really is.

Cracking opinion that. Wanting us to lose, and a Liverpool player to be vilified to satisfy your own desire to be proven right.

You utter f*cking disgrace.

[Lando_Griffin]

Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Got to disagree.

I think thats a poor argument.

United are direct competition for the league thus comparing results is EXACTLY what we should do. If we can at least match teh results of United and Chelse for the rest of this season, we would win the league.

We have been playing pretty average and are still up there, which is what we need to do until our and this leagues top strikers returns from injury.

Frustrated.

Disclaimer - I dont think Rafa is beyond criticism, and feel he should have replaced Kuyt on the hour, preferably with KEane.

Well you could compare the results Leon in the sense that the Mancs actually beat Hull at home, whereas Chelsea smacked their erse away. Equally, we lost at White Hart Lane, whereas the Mancs drew.

I'm simply making the point that whatever any of the other teams do this weekend, us failing to beat Hull at Home given the situation and what has gone before, is an absolutely terrible result.

And guess what, Mick. Keep it quiet, like, as most on here obviously don't know it, but...

WE BEAT MAN UTD AND CHELSEA!!!!!!!!

Fancy that, eh?

[Lando_Griffin]

how many points do we have to let slip before it does become a problem, these are the game where you put the points in the bag, this is the best chance we have ever had to win the premier and where letting it slip away with very poor performances indeed, just because where still ahead does not mean all is rosy.

i really do hope we can atleast mount a challenge to the end of the season put i cant see us winning the league when where playing players who would not get into another top 4 side, we either sell and buy come jan or we blow it

Mate, if that was a poor performance, then you're a freshly picked cabbage.

We battered them. Along the way we made 2 mistakes.

THAT is it.

[bigmick]

And by the same token, may we not have the over-reactionary wave of bullsh*t from the anti's, too?

Just a thought, like - I mean, none of this "two camps" b*llocks would exist were it not for the "Rafa is an idiot" propaganda of the window-licking minority.

You know - the same minority who obviously know best and have proved it over many years in top-flight football...

There's a difference though Lando, and it's a non too subtle one. People who are classed as "anti" in the main come on and talk about the game/the manager/the players/the tactics/the substitutions.

The "pro's" (not the right term but you know what I mean) then attack THE POSTER and not the football points raised. They attack the very right of the person to even hold such an opinion, they question his/her legitimacy as a fan etc and it just gets boring.

If people don't think Keane should have been brought on, or do think Kuyt is a lone striker, then say so. Simply implying somebody is a c... though for holding an opinion which is different to the manager without explaining why is boring. Like I said, this thread is quite clear what it's all about by the title of it.

So why then do people attack the positive posters? "Get your head out the f*cking clouds", "Get back to kissing Rafa's a*se", "Take the rose-tinted specs off and get your head out of Rafa's a*se", etc, etc, etc.

The simple fact is this:

The reason people don't like Rafa is because they either don't understand his methods, or, in certain cases, because he's not British.

His record speaks for itself. The "enduring" arguments go thus:

"Fergie is a legend, Rafa isn't worthy of blah, blah, blah."

The problem we have here, is that these mentally-challenged individuals who spout that forget that "Fergie" (What's that all about?) took 7-odd years to win the title.

It bothers me immensely when the glaringly obvious differences in the challenges faced by the individual gaffers is ignored to propagate the Anti-Rafa Brigade's campaign of hate.

But still - let's all sit here and listen to the negative, hate-filled bile of the bigoted few against a man who does nothing but his best for the club, the bunch of ungrateful little tiny-knobbed b*stards.

Well. People do say that "get your head out of the clouds " stuff occasionally, but I think if we're honest the "anti's" for want of a better term whinge and whine about the football, whereas the "pro's" attack them not for their posts but for their allegiances/origins/backgrounds/legitimacy etc etc . There is no question in my mind that way more abuse is dished out by one side.

As for your "simple fact", I don't know where I fit into that one. I guess what your saying by implication, is that if you don't like Rafa you eigher a) don't understand anything about football because you don't understand his methods, or b) you're a xenophobe. Doesn't leave people much option does it?


Just out of curiosity, is it possible to "quite" like Rafa, but disagree with some of his decisons, but at the same time not be really concerned where he or anybody else comes from? I hope so because that's where I am. I also don't consider myself "mentally challenged either just for the record.

As for Rafa's record speaking for itself, well of course it does. Every football managers record speaks for itself because it is a matter of fact. It is a fact that in his four seasons at Anfield prior to this one, Rafa won the Champions League and the FA Cup, while not getting involved in a title race. Surely it is for each individual to judge whether or not they think that is impressive or not, given as you say the fact that each manager of each indicidual club works under different circumstances. My own feeling is that his record isn't clear cut either way up to now. It's Ok but no better I think, not fantastic but not a disaster. Now I have no doubt you and many others wll disagree, but thats fine, it's a forum and we're all entitled to an opinion.

The Ferguson comparison is as valid as comparing Rafa to Wenger who won the title in his first season.

[Lando_Griffin]

Benetez is our biggest liability this season, it looks very much like hes holding a personel grudge against Keane, just like he did with Alonso

Prove it, or shut it, you tit.

[Lando_Griffin]

Rafa stated previously that we will win the title only if the other challengers drop points. Well i think this is the forth time that we have not taken dropped pointed from others to our advantage. We should be well ahead by atleast 8-10 points. This is really becomming annoying now. Every time we draw we are hoping chelsea,mancs and arsenal drop points. lucky for use two of those drew today. Were just waiting for chelsea to slip up 2mrw which i really doubt. Rafa has a bizarre style at times. I dont know why he kept kuyt on and still ponder why keane was not given a few mins. Were top of the league but funny thing is it feels so shyte because of our form. We have to keep out away form immaculate. We are rusty at anfield which is a shame. Team must think now yeah lets go to anfield were guaranteed a point atleast!!

Could it possibly be because Kuyt has been scoring more goals than Keane?

This place is a joke sometimes.

[bigmick]

So realistically without Torres, goals were always likely to be a problem, what I didn't expect was our defensive frailties.

Defensively S@int the stats aren't too bad, but I've been increasingly concerned over these last few weeks about the  slight styling which is going on.

The centre halves are seemingly rotated dependant on the opposition, and whether or not they occasionally sling a high ball into the box. Hyppia plays sometimes, Agger the others. It doesn't really work ona  regualr basis, we've tried it before so we know, it doesn't work. Yes if you're playing a modern day Wimbledon it makes sense to draught Sami in, but we know from experience if you rotate the centre-halves refgularly you suffer eventually.

Equally, at full back why did Insua play at Blackburn? Dossena can't be tired surely as he has probably played one game in two. Dossena had infact put a couple of decentish performances in, so why play Insua? You could then argue, having taken the decision to play him, why not leave him in as he had a solid enough debut?

Instead we rotate it back, Dossena comes back in and he and Riera on the evidence of the first goal today don't communicate with each other.

In all honesty, from a defensive point of view Dossena is absolutely awful, and if there's a worse defender at left back in the Premiership I haven't seen him yet. Having said that, the fella Abissomour Abou or whatever the feck he was called who played for Spurs against us was absolutely awful, and I think he might have been a left back.

Whatever anyway, too much styling in defence and too much Dossena.

So now it's wrong to take the "worst ever signing" out and give a kid a chance?

It gets better, it really does!

Did you miss the part where Riera didn't start against Blackburn, perhaps meaning that Insua was a better partner for Babel?

Or is it just par for the course that you slag Rafa off instead of looking at the actual facts?

It seems fairly obvious that Insua is the better defender, but Dossena the better attacker. Given Riera's willingness to track back, and Babel's inability in this area, could it possibly be that Insua was picked to;

a.) Prove himself,
b.) Add defensive strength in the absence of a willing winger,
c.) Take the anticipated physical battle typical of Balckburn's approach?

You'd have thought we'd have lost the game, the way you're having another pop...

Give it a rest, for chuff's sake.

Well at least it's a football post, so lets have a look. I think you may have misunderstood my original point so I'll start there. It was about changing the back four without good enough reason.

As you point out, I think Dossena is a poor player, but I also think that credit where it's due he had played reasonably well in the two games previous to Blackburn. Now we chose to leave him out, and give Insua a game, his full debut I think. It was an interesting choice, and you have a couple of interesting theories as to why it was made. There might well be something in your theory about Insua being potentially a better partner for Babel. I'm not usre your right, but there's a possibility that's what the manager was thinking. I am sure the little fella is a better defender than the Italian as you say, but I don't think he was picked to "prove himself", nor do I think he was picked to withstand the physical battle or whatever it was.

Anyway, whatever the reason for him being selected, I thought the kid did pretty well under the circumstances. Whether or not it did anything for Dossena is a different question, as is whether or not we'd have been better off leaving him in (personally I think he might have done better for the two goals on Saturday).

The point was though really that if you continually switch around the back four you tend to leak silly goals. We've proven that over the last four seasons, and we're starting to prove it again now. BTW I don't count my original post as "slagging" Rafa, it was only an opinion. I do think I'm entitled to that, just as you are entitled to disagree with it.

[Lando_Griffin]

Whenever anyone makes a decent point people just come up with ''Still top of the league'' . . Its not good enough thou!!

Behold - the mentality of an imbecile.

"Top of the league isn't good enough"

If I didn't know you mean it, I'd be laughing my a*se off at you, you pathetic little weasel.

Let's create a new position, just for us. We could call it "Top + 1"...

W*nker.

[Scottbot]

This place is a joke sometimes.

It's true mate but unfortunately the anger/passion of your responses doesn't really help it along either does it? I get the impression you would prefer it if everyone on here agreed that we're top and that is all that matters and because we're top there shouldn't be any criticism but it's a forum and i guess it would be pretty boring if everyone agreed.

[heimdall]

Benetez is our biggest liability this season, it looks very much like hes holding a personel grudge against Keane, just like he did with Alonso

Prove it, or shut it, you tit.

Well done Lando for proving Big Mick so wrong about the pro-rafalites being rude and aggressive to the anti's. 

I'm very disappointed with the result especially since Rafa still continues to play Dossena whilst everybody knows he is terrible. Also not bringing on Keane for Kuyt when Kuyt was clearly having a bad game is terrible management, oh dear, there I said it, I'm no longer a fan now am I

Tell you what, if you think Rafa was right to play Dossena and not bring on Keane why don't you please let us know what his thinking was.

[Lando_Griffin]

And by the same token, may we not have the over-reactionary wave of bullsh*t from the anti's, too?

Just a thought, like - I mean, none of this "two camps" b*llocks would exist were it not for the "Rafa is an idiot" propaganda of the window-licking minority.

You know - the same minority who obviously know best and have proved it over many years in top-flight football...

There's a difference though Lando, and it's a non too subtle one. People who are classed as "anti" in the main come on and talk about the game/the manager/the players/the tactics/the substitutions.

The "pro's" (not the right term but you know what I mean) then attack THE POSTER and not the football points raised. They attack the very right of the person to even hold such an opinion, they question his/her legitimacy as a fan etc and it just gets boring.

If people don't think Keane should have been brought on, or do think Kuyt is a lone striker, then say so. Simply implying somebody is a c... though for holding an opinion which is different to the manager without explaining why is boring. Like I said, this thread is quite clear what it's all about by the title of it.

So why then do people attack the positive posters? "Get your head out the f*cking clouds", "Get back to kissing Rafa's a*se", "Take the rose-tinted specs off and get your head out of Rafa's a*se", etc, etc, etc.

The simple fact is this:

The reason people don't like Rafa is because they either don't understand his methods, or, in certain cases, because he's not British.

His record speaks for itself. The "enduring" arguments go thus:

"Fergie is a legend, Rafa isn't worthy of blah, blah, blah."

The problem we have here, is that these mentally-challenged individuals who spout that forget that "Fergie" (What's that all about?) took 7-odd years to win the title.

It bothers me immensely when the glaringly obvious differences in the challenges faced by the individual gaffers is ignored to propagate the Anti-Rafa Brigade's campaign of hate.

But still - let's all sit here and listen to the negative, hate-filled bile of the bigoted few against a man who does nothing but his best for the club, the bunch of ungrateful little tiny-knobbed b*stards.

Well. People do say that "get your head out of the clouds " stuff occasionally, but I think if we're honest the "anti's" for want of a better term whinge and whine about the football, whereas the "pro's" attack them not for their posts but for their allegiances/origins/backgrounds/legitimacy etc etc . There is no question in my mind that way more abuse is dished out by one side.

As for your "simple fact", I don't know where I fit into that one. I guess what your saying by implication, is that if you don't like Rafa you eigher a) don't understand anything about football because you don't understand his methods, or b) you're a xenophobe. Doesn't leave people much option does it?


Just out of curiosity, is it possible to "quite" like Rafa, but disagree with some of his decisons, but at the same time not be really concerned where he or anybody else comes from? I hope so because that's where I am. I also don't consider myself "mentally challenged either just for the record.

As for Rafa's record speaking for itself, well of course it does. Every football managers record speaks for itself because it is a matter of fact. It is a fact that in his four seasons at Anfield prior to this one, Rafa won the Champions League and the FA Cup, while not getting involved in a title race. Surely it is for each individual to judge whether or not they think that is impressive or not, given as you say the fact that each manager of each indicidual club works under different circumstances. My own feeling is that his record isn't clear cut either way up to now. It's Ok but no better I think, not fantastic but not a disaster. Now I have no doubt you and many others wll disagree, but thats fine, it's a forum and we're all entitled to an opinion.

The Ferguson comparison is as valid as comparing Rafa to Wenger who won the title in his first season.

Mick, I feel that I really ought to point something out to you:

Only 1 manager can win the title in any given season.

If Fergie, Wenger and Moris are so far ahead of Rafa, then how can people BLAME Rafa when we don't win it?

Scholari is bandied as a better manager - so Rafa SHOULDN'T win the league this year, either.

And just to help me out - how many times has the almighty Wenger won the Premiership since Rafa's arrival?

How many leagues has he won when in direct competition to Rafa?

0? Can it be?

Can it POSSIBLY be that Wenger won the title BEFORE Rafa even joined this club? Can it possibly be that it was EASIER back then, as LFC was gash, Chelsea were just in it to make up the numbers, and Man Utd were in the middle of a transitional period?

Surely not...

P.S. If you "quite" liked Rafa, you wouldn't constantly attempt to blame him for everything that doesn't go according to plan.

Simple.

[Lando_Griffin]

This place is a joke sometimes.

It's true mate but unfortunately the anger/passion of your responses doesn't really help it along either does it? I get the impression you would prefer it if everyone on here agreed that we're top and that is all that matters and because we're top there shouldn't be any criticism but it's a forum and i guess it would be pretty boring if everyone agreed.

It's the fact that people on here react like Rafa's just raped their Spaniel whenever we don't win, stating that "Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal wouldn't do that", then when they DO, they say "Well that doesn't matter."

Of course it matters. Being top is ALL that matters.

If we stay in this position for the remainder of the season, we will be champions. If we don't, we won't.

Either way, they'll still be thinking about the Spaniel...

[Igor Zidane]

This place is a joke sometimes.

It's true mate but unfortunately the anger/passion of your responses doesn't really help it along either does it? I get the impression you would prefer it if everyone on here agreed that we're top and that is all that matters and because we're top there shouldn't be any criticism but it's a forum and i guess it would be pretty boring if everyone agreed.

It's the fact that people on here react like Rafa's just raped their Spaniel whenever we don't win, stating that "Man U/Chelsea/Arsenal wouldn't do that", then when they DO, they say "Well that doesn't matter."

Of course it matters. Being top is ALL that matters.

If we stay in this position for the remainder of the season, we will be champions. If we don't, we won't.

Either way, they'll still be thinking about the Spaniel...