Liverpool FC Forum

[Fo Dne]

Joe Cole - a player who used to frustrate a lot but had the raw ability to be a quality player. He's improved his decision making in his time at Chelsea and developed physically, now a top quality player.

Frank Lampard - a decent midfielder at West Ham who many thought Chelsea overpaid for at £8m. His overall game has improved and he's now arguably one of the best midfielders in the league.

Fernando Torres - Although I didn't watch him often in Spain, he's developed physically without a doubt.

Your first two points are complete and utter rubbish.

Right, and I should trust your judgement. Boumsong, Cheyrou, Cisse,Prutton etc..

But you trust Benitez'? Lucas, Josemi, Nunez, Gonzalez, Kromkamp etc?

[Sabre]

Like Sabre, I partially agree with Stu on this one. Clearly there are some attributes that are very hard, if not impossible, to improve (you are more or less born with them). I would name at least speed, acceleration, jumping, vision, physical presence, stamina.

There are also some attributes that can be improved in time: IMHO inexperience will affect mainly keepers and defenders, because it affects the highly important positioning attribute. Also there are players that mature late, so their morale and psychology can change in time and make them much better players.

About ball control and technique, however, I believe that there is space for improvement, but not much. If you lack it after three years of professional football, you won't change much after that, no matter how much you train and who your coach is. But this is only my two pence, if Toshack used that method in training with mature players, maybe he had proof it was effective.

Good thread but I fear sooner or later it will explode in a fight between certain members.

Toshack made that to a young player, but not too young. Skills are developed at lower ages.

Good post yours. I also see the danger of fights, I just hope people reads "disagree with you", when they actually read "it's rubbish your opinion".

It would be a pity not to try to talk about a footie topic I'd like to read your opinions about because of fear to fights. Let's try at least!

[Bad Bob]

Joe Cole - a player who used to frustrate a lot but had the raw ability to be a quality player. He's improved his decision making in his time at Chelsea and developed physically, now a top quality player.

Frank Lampard - a decent midfielder at West Ham who many thought Chelsea overpaid for at £8m. His overall game has improved and he's now arguably one of the best midfielders in the league.

Fernando Torres - Although I didn't watch him often in Spain, he's developed physically without a doubt.

Your first two points are complete and utter rubbish.

FFS, don't start down this road in yet another thread.  It's a discussion.  If you disagree explain why rather than just dismissing things out of hand.  And you wonder why people find you condescending and belligerent. 

[GYBS]

every manager makes signings that dont work out .

[maypaxvobiscum]

kolo toure

[GYBS]

Toures started off as a striker for arsenal but is superb as a cb - good shout.

[account deleted by request]

I think a few players have completely changed their game due to injury, but again they could possibly  still be using attributes that they ALWAYS had but hadn't needed to use much until their other attributes were restricted through injury.

Heighway is an obvious one. When he came into the first team he was a flyer, both through the middle and down the wing. He seemed to only have one trick...... he would chase for the ball with the defender, allowing the defender to think he was going to beat Heighway to the ball, then at the last possible moment Heighway would find another gear get the ball and leave the defender dead and buried.(Supermac used to use the same trick for Newcastle)

This worked great for Heighway until his Achilles problem. He lost that incredible burst of speed and became just another quick player and never got it back. He changed his whole game, became a quite astute passer of the ball, lost his high stepping knee action running style and started to dribble, work openings and became much more of a team player.

Admittedly he had always been able to cross a ball on the run, but because of his pace he more often than not had cut inside towards goal, now he began to hit some great crosses both high and low, but more importantly he was picking the right option. Something which had never been his strong point before.

Maybe he already had all the attributes and just hadn't needed them till his injury, or maybe he worked hard to develop them ?

[GYBS]

Think the main attribute that players can never learn is pace - thin is some ways most others can be enhanced in some way or improved through training and experience.

[Fo Dne]

Joe Cole - a player who used to frustrate a lot but had the raw ability to be a quality player. He's improved his decision making in his time at Chelsea and developed physically, now a top quality player.

Frank Lampard - a decent midfielder at West Ham who many thought Chelsea overpaid for at £8m. His overall game has improved and he's now arguably one of the best midfielders in the league.

Fernando Torres - Although I didn't watch him often in Spain, he's developed physically without a doubt.

Your first two points are complete and utter rubbish.

FFS, don't start down this road in yet another thread.  It's a discussion.  If you disagree explain why rather than just dismissing things out of hand.  And you wonder why people find you condescending and belligerent. 

Whats the point when idiots come back with the great old arguement of "you rated Cheyrou" or "are you saying you know more than a professional" or some other rubbish like that.

There was no insult there, I stated a fact. Grow a pair of balls and allow a little bit of freedom of speech. Its pathetic how politically correct this countries becoming. Ban ban ban, censor, censor, censor. Next they'll be talking about not being able to discipline our own kids... oh wait, they already are!

[stmichael]

The more recent obvious choice for us would be Steve Finnan.

I mean he was a good player at Fulham but he came on leaps and bounds when he played for us and became one of the best and most consistent right backs in the League. Genuinely two-footed, not slow, and could both defend and attack.

Infact if he was still at the Club he'd still be our best right back.

[maypaxvobiscum]

jon obi mikel

[GYBS]

why mikel ?

[Fo Dne]

every manager makes signings that dont work out .

Well according to you I lost credibility because I got a judgement on one player wrong about 4/5 years ago...

[GYBS]

any chance you can not drag the thread into more rubbish please. thats another thread not this one , the guy has started a good topic to comment on so lets just comment on it .

[Fo Dne]

The more recent obvious choice for us would be Steve Finnan.

I mean he was a good player at Fulham but he came on leaps and bounds when he played for us and became one of the best and most consistent right backs in the League. Genuinely two-footed, not slow, and could both defend and attack.

Infact if he was still at the Club he'd still be our best right back.

So what did he learn to do at Liverpool that he couldn't do before he came here?