Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions?  I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

And yet these clubs can still manage to knock top clubs out when they play them in the cup. Maybe there are more players who can raise their game than you think ?

I'm not sure, but I don't think we found a Keegan or a Clemence every year mate.

thats why we spend most of our days on here chatting sh.it about football - its AMAZING !

NEver said every year, but there will NEVER be another player from two divisions below the top flight who plays European football again for the top four/five.

Sidwell played for Chelsea against Valencia

If top clubs don't buy them, I agree they won't. If they took the chance every now and then who knows? 

If you would like to put money on that statement ?

After maturing in the first division first and then tasting top flight football at Reading. Plus he only went to Chelse cus he cost fu.ck all.

but yes, I will stick you a tenner.

Make it a hundred mate..........I like bets I can't lose 

He cost Villa money though Leon

[Sir Roger]

Ok obviously some people think that some of Rafas buys for our squad have been poor - or in some peoples words . So who should rafa of bought instead of these players and realisticly that we could of got for the same price we paid for these players .

Babel 2007 10 mil
Kuyt 2006 10 mil
Lucas 2007 6 mil
Yossi 2007 3mil ?
Dossena 2008 7-8 mil
Ngog 2008 1.5 mil
Pennant 2006 6 mil

Plus anyone else i have missed .

40 odd million there and not one you would say is good enough for LFC in its heyday

[bigmick]

Ok obviously some people think that some of Rafas buys for our squad have been poor - or in some peoples words . So who should rafa of bought instead of these players and realisticly that we could of got for the same price we paid for these players .

Babel 2007 10 mil
Kuyt 2006 10 mil
Lucas 2007 6 mil
Yossi 2007 3mil ?
Dossena 2008 7-8 mil
Ngog 2008 1.5 mil
Pennant 2006 6 mil

Plus anyone else i have missed .

40 odd million there and not one you would say is good enough for LFC in its heyday

I don't know about LFC in its heyday, I'm not totally sure that any of them are good enough today to be honest. I suppose Kuyt being charitable does a job on the right, and Babel/N'Gog haven't been proven categorically to be totally never good enough yet, but it doesn't look like a good return.

When you include wages, write offs as players are allowed to leave on frees after paying 6.7 million for them, signing on fees and the like it does start to look  alittle like false economy to me.

This is particularly the case when you consider that despite buying a host of "option" and "possibility" players with the intention of building a large squad, the reality is that if you take the odd player out of our first team the cover behind them is criminally thin in some cases, and non existent in others.

[Sir Roger]

Ok obviously some people think that some of Rafas buys for our squad have been poor - or in some peoples words . So who should rafa of bought instead of these players and realisticly that we could of got for the same price we paid for these players .

Babel 2007 10 mil
Kuyt 2006 10 mil
Lucas 2007 6 mil
Yossi 2007 3mil ?
Dossena 2008 7-8 mil
Ngog 2008 1.5 mil
Pennant 2006 6 mil

Plus anyone else i have missed .

40 odd million there and not one you would say is good enough for LFC in its heyday

I don't know about LFC in its heyday, I'm not totally sure that any of them are good enough today to be honest. I suppose Kuyt being charitable does a job on the right, and Babel/N'Gog haven't been proven categorically to be totally never good enough yet, but it doesn't look like a good return.

When you include wages, write offs as players are allowed to leave on frees after paying 6.7 million for them, signing on fees and the like it does start to look  alittle like false economy to me.

This is particularly the case when you consider that despite buying a host of "option" and "possibility" players with the intention of building a large squad, the reality is that if you take the odd player out of our first team the cover behind them is criminally thin in some cases, and non existent in others.

And yet Rafa wants more money to buy more players?
Why doesnt he do what moyes does and scout the lower leagues if he wants option and possibility players?

[red_guy]

We don't have a genuine right winger. We need a player with pace  . We need a new striker who can score lots of goals . No names for me,what do i know i'm just a fan. The scouts and the management should figure this out.

[Sir Roger]

We don't have a genuine right winger. We need a player with pace  . We need a new striker who can score lots of goals . No names for me,what do i know i'm just a fan. The scouts and the management should figure this out.

We had Bellamy
I dont want to be sarcastic.
But I will
If we had a winger with pace Rafa would probably try and turn him into a holding midfielder..

[red_guy]

If we had a winger with pace Rafa would probably try and turn him into a holding midfielder..

Naahhh...he wouldn't do that coz he's busy looking at holding midfielders to sign. Scouting for wingers? i don't think that's his priority. He has this thing with holding midfielders...he love centre / holding midfielders. .

By the way... that Gosling kid, is he local /from  the  academy? if The bitters can promote players through the ranks, i guess we should do the same. We should use Pacheco or Nemeth from now on.

[DanAn]

If we had a winger with pace Rafa would probably try and turn him into a holding midfielder..

Naahhh...he wouldn't do that coz he's busy looking at holding midfielders to sign. Scouting for wingers? i don't think that's his priority. He has this thing with holding midfielders...he love centre / holding midfielders. .

By the way... that Gosling kid, is he local /from  the  academy? if The bitters can promote players through the ranks, i guess we should do the same. We should use Pacheco or Nemeth from now on.

Rafa is rumoured to have gone into a downward spiral of depression when he heard about Palacio and Da Jong signing for teams other than Liverpool. There were whispers that if Veloso moved as well he may well have topped himself.

[Toffeehater]

Should have signed Dani alves when we had the chance and we should have kept sissoko , i think its one we will come to regret in future

[Toffeehater]

Cahill is porb the last person to make the step up from the lower leagues .

What about Sidwell for starters?

lescott as well , as much as you hate moyes you gotta admit , he has found some brilliant bargains , cahill and lescott

[account deleted by request]

TBH I am not sure if thats true or not GYBS, because so few get the chance nowerdays. When I was young I used to study the second division(championship) quite a bit looking for players that might be good enough for Liverpool, I couldn't even tell you who is top now. I am sure there are still players in the lower divisions that could make the step up, but now it seems its much easier to bring in a foreign international player than take a chance on a Championship player. I am not talking about signing kids like Carson or Hobbs, but players who have a few games under their belt, players like Phil Neal etc. Players that but for signing for us might have gone their whole career considered journeymen rather than stars. We used to be quite good at picking them out.

Who was the last established player we signed from the lower divisions?  I know we have signed a few from clubs on their way down (Henchoz Crouch) but do we ever look at the clubs that are stuck down there?

Go outside your house over the weekend, get a news paper and subscribe to SKY.

Football changed lad.

There are very very very few who can make the step up. One or two per seaon at most.

Keegan's, Heighways and Clemences are not out there.

And yet these clubs can still manage to knock top clubs out when they play them in the cup. Maybe there are more players who can raise their game than you think ?

I'm not sure, but I don't think we found a Keegan or a Clemence every year mate.

thats why we spend most of our days on here chatting sh.it about football - its AMAZING !

NEver said every year, but there will NEVER be another player from two divisions below the top flight who plays European football again for the top four/five.

Sidwell played for Chelsea against Valencia

If top clubs don't buy them, I agree they won't. If they took the chance every now and then who knows? 

If you would like to put money on that statement ?

After maturing in the first division first and then tasting top flight football at Reading. Plus he only went to Chelse cus he cost fu.ck all.

but yes, I will stick you a tenner.

Make it a hundred mate..........I like bets I can't lose 

He cost Villa money though Leon

Been doing a little thinking since we started this discussion Leon. I would think that Rob Jones falls into the category I was talking about, as does Danny Murphy (both went on to play for England)

Others :- Steve Finnan, started his career with Welling United(41), Notts County (80) before progressing through the leagues.

Ryan Taylor, Ashley Young, Marcus Stewart, Dean Ashton even Robbie Keane.

The only difference is rather than a big club taking a gamble on them like they once would have, they have worked their way up by stepping stone clubs........BECAUSE BIG CLUBS NO LONGER TAKE THE GAMBLE

I do believe there are players out there, but nowerdays they only tend to come to notice if and when their club gets promoted to the Prem. Then the vultures swoop and cherry pick their best players before the club sinks back into the oblivion of the Championship.

(ADDITIONAL THANKS TO MY ESTEEMED RESEARCH ASSISTANT)

[Bam]

(ADDITIONAL THANKS TO MY ESTEEMED RESEARCH ASSISTANT)

No worries, I'll pick up the fiver later.

[account deleted by request]

(ADDITIONAL THANKS TO MY ESTEEMED RESEARCH ASSISTANT)

No worries, I'll pick up the fiver later.

    Nice try Bam , but I think most would guess who it was by the players mentioned (Dean Ashton    )

[Bam]

(ADDITIONAL THANKS TO MY ESTEEMED RESEARCH ASSISTANT)

No worries, I'll pick up the fiver later.

    Nice try Bam , but I think most would guess who it was by the players mentioned (Dean Ashton    )

Hmmm, Stu the dead pi$$e$ on my parade. 

[bigmick]

I agree there are good players out there, and I brought it up not because I think they are the answer to all our problems, but simply because these days we don't even seem to bother looking. Those players you've mentioned are all good players S@int, but even more recently than those we've been much more reluctant to take a punt on untired British based players that w ehave foreign ones it seems to me.

Gareth Bale was checked out by the World and his brother it seems to me before Spurs took apunt on him. My guess is that at the very least they won't lose money on him. Theo Walcott now looks liek he's going to make a footballer, and if they can persuade him to sign a contract will be a good player for them for many years. We could have had both, but to the best of my knowledge it wasn't Rick Parry who pulled the plug, it was the managers reluctance to take a punt on them. I'm not criticising Rafa over those two decisions as they were marginal calls, but we do seem a touch reluctant to buy local, or promote local sometimes.

Leeds have got a kid now who the vultures are circling over. I've not seen him play but he might be worth a look, while there are always prospects in the relegated teams. I know people always counter with such and such is not good enough for a big club, but in all fairness many of the players who pull on a red shirt from time to time aren't good enough either.

One team has improved out of all recognition this season and it isn't us. They probably won't win the league, but they are within a couple of points of us right now. They're categorically proving as far as i can see that it is possible to build a very decent team if you buy sensibly (Luke Young, Ashley Young, Brad Freidel, Zak Knight, Curtis Davis, Steve sidwell etc etc). They may not be as glamourous as some of our players, but there at least two of those mentioned who would absolutely walk into our first team tomorrow. If you have a team built in such a way who has a decent game plan and a togetherness which good managers engender, you can go a long way.