Liverpool FC Forum

[Penguins]

if we are discussing which one is more valuable to the team, sell crouch now, kuyt is far more valuable, in my honest opinion, although i do feel a poll coming up

Agree 100% with you Daws Id prefer Kuyt brings more to the team Ok we all know hes not a prolific goalscorer but since hes been given that new role out wide i think hes done brilliant. The full backs can always rely on him to fill in when they go inside. His work rate for me is first class an his crossing of the ball is nothing to be sniffed at.

I watched him yesterday for Holland and although he came on as a sub he was there best player by a mile, Doesnt matter if it was a meaningless game he had 3 clearences that were worthy of Carragher . Looks like Van Basten is using him in the same role now out wide that we do .

Surely both Raffa and Van Basten are not wrong

So you see Kuyt as the permanent solution out wide?
He can't even dribble past a defender in the conference.
But he can work hard and pass the ball back...

Unbelievable 

[ConnO'var]

Crouch's comments the other day were quite alarming, especially with regards to him being willing to see out the remaining year on his contract. If this is the case then we really need to make an example of the guy, otherwise we'll get another McManaman, Owen situation. If we can afford to do it then we should call his bluff. If he chooses to sit out his contract then he should be made to train with the youth team and sit in the reserves.

That's just cutting off your nose to spite the face mate.

With the financial situation being what it is at he club at the mo, it would be extremely unwise I feel. After Owen and McManaman, the lessons should have been learnt and a situation like this should never have recurred. We've got no one else to blame but ourselves for this unholy turn of events.

To be honest i think Rafa has handled it extremley badly this season and towards the end of last.
After bombing him in the champions league final last year he told him he was in his plans and wanted him to stay, then bombed him out totally all season.
He should of sold him last summer if he didnt want him, when his stock was higher and his contract situation wasnt as bad.
Very poor management of the situation imo.

I agree..... very poor management..... whether it's by Rafa or Coco, we'll never know for sure. What IS known, are the consequences.... we've let ourselves down with the handling of this one.

[puroresu]

if we are discussing which one is more valuable to the team, sell crouch now, kuyt is far more valuable, in my honest opinion, although i do feel a poll coming up

Agree 100% with you Daws Id prefer Kuyt brings more to the team Ok we all know hes not a prolific goalscorer but since hes been given that new role out wide i think hes done brilliant. The full backs can always rely on him to fill in when they go inside. His work rate for me is first class an his crossing of the ball is nothing to be sniffed at.

I watched him yesterday for Holland and although he came on as a sub he was there best player by a mile, Doesnt matter if it was a meaningless game he had 3 clearences that were worthy of Carragher . Looks like Van Basten is using him in the same role now out wide that we do .

Surely both Raffa and Van Basten are not wrong

No he rarely starts for Holland and when he comes on his played wide as the dutch play 4-3-3.  Van Basten has the likes of RVN, Hunterlaar and Van Hesselink he can play in the middle so doesnt need Kuyt there.  Kuyt wasnt the best player either!!!  Come tournament time Robben and Van Persie will go wide.  I didnt even think Kuyt would of made the final squad but Babel got injured.

[dawson99]

robben? that guy is the greediest player i have ever seen. all he did yesterday was dive and lose the ball. yeah he scored, but if anyone else had been on the pitch holland would have scored 4 or 5

[Sabre]

I don't know if it deserves another thread the man managing, but I agree ConnO'var and Ace Ventura about the man managing of Crouch, and the upfront line as a whole.

While in the middle, in this 4 years Rafa has been able to make it stronger and even making money with the sellings, and in the defence, he seems to have done properly the transition from hyypia to Agger and Skrtl, I'm not happy with the upfront line: Too many men have come and go, Morientes, Fowler, Bellamy...

[Ola Mr Benitez]

. all he did yesterday was dive and lose the ball. yeah he scored,

Kinda the point of the game ?

[Owzat]

Whether we should ever have signed him is my question. Took him ages to score and even when he worked out how to do that he's still well short of perfecting it. His record for England sums him up, give him space and poor opposition and he's a world beater. Play a decent defence with an ounce of nous and he's ineffective. I thought he might start last night and bag another cheap hat-trick, Defoe did instead.

Kuyt has filled in adequately on the right, maybe not a long term solution but at least he serves a purpose. If Crouch's main concern is starting regularly and playing for England then I suggest he goes elsewhere. We're in serious strife if it's Torres then a toss up between Crouch and Kuyt for the second best striker. Crouch is single function and not great at it, Kuyt is multipurpose, adaptable and has plenty to offer - for the time being.

Let's get £9m for Crouch, get players for other positions and the time will come when Kuyt too can leave. When Martin Jol offers £15m for him then we'll be quids in

[dawson99]

. all he did yesterday was dive and lose the ball. yeah he scored,

Kinda the point of the game ?

no, far from it. in an international friendly. if the guy on the wing is shooting from impossible angles, never passing to his team mates and diving so much hed get sent off for it in any real game then he is no good addition to the team. he was an absolute disgrace yesterday,. unlike dirk who was absiolutely everywhere, back defending well, passing well, shooting well... being an absolute invaluable member of the team

[stmichael]

Whether we should ever have signed him is my question. Took him ages to score and even when he worked out how to do that he's still well short of perfecting it. His record for England sums him up, give him space and poor opposition and he's a world beater. Play a decent defence with an ounce of nous and he's ineffective.

I think Crouch will never play on a higher stage than LFC, so by that token you could say that he has been lucky that Rafa signed him. It also took him an age to get off the mark and Rafa backed him throughout. When Crouch started to hit the net regularly we were all pleased. Along the way he has suffered more than most from being rotated, then latterly, from falling into Torres' shadow (no disgrace in that, since I can't think of a better striker than Nando). The one thing I think Crouch hasn't done well is really fight hard for a spot when he got a game/chance this past season. I can understand his frustration, but at the same time, he should have busted a gut when he got on that pitch for us. My memory is that sometimes he did, but other times (too many times) he seemed to be going through the motions.

It is best for all parties to draw a line under this now, with the outcome being a move, at something like £8-10m. If Crouch manages to go without rocking the boat via the press, then he will go with my best wishes, with happy memories such as the Arsenal hat-trick being uppermost in my mind. If he leaves with a sting in the tail (i.e. some sort of dodgy interview that disparages the manager/club) then I won't be happy with him at all. At that point, in my eyes, he would be revealing himself as a player who got a bit too big for his boots and was rightly shown the door.

[metalhead]

sorry peewee, Kuyt wasn't poor when we signed him! he was decent in his first season, picking up some goals that most people expected. What I expected is that he would score more goals the next season, unfortunatley with some personal problems, and our poor form in the season didn't help his cause! yes he was poor at the start of the season, but did well when he was moved to the right and scored some important goals in the Champions League that should he should be given credit for.

As for Crouch, I have an idea, lets drop torres next season for crouch, ok?

Why does Torres have to be dropped for Crouch ?

Cant they play together ?

We only played that 4-5-1 at the end of the season, we havent usually played that sort of system under Rafa anyway.

Which one proved more vital though? we started winning more games using the 4-5-1 formation, I recall we started using it in febuary.

Peewee, just some posts on here, to me they want torres dropped and crouch to play more games..

[kazza]

Whether we should ever have signed him is my question. Took him ages to score and even when he worked out how to do that he's still well short of perfecting it. His record for England sums him up, give him space and poor opposition and he's a world beater. Play a decent defence with an ounce of nous and he's ineffective.

I think Crouch will never play on a higher stage than LFC, so by that token you could say that he has been lucky that Rafa signed him. It also took him an age to get off the mark and Rafa backed him throughout. When Crouch started to hit the net regularly we were all pleased. Along the way he has suffered more than most from being rotated, then latterly, from falling into Torres' shadow (no disgrace in that, since I can't think of a better striker than Nando). The one thing I think Crouch hasn't done well is really fight hard for a spot when he got a game/chance this past season. I can understand his frustration, but at the same time, he should have busted a gut when he got on that pitch for us. My memory is that sometimes he did, but other times (too many times) he seemed to be going through the motions.

It is best for all parties to draw a line under this now, with the outcome being a move, at something like £8-10m. If Crouch manages to go without rocking the boat via the press, then he will go with my best wishes, with happy memories such as the Arsenal hat-trick being uppermost in my mind. If he leaves with a sting in the tail (i.e. some sort of dodgy interview that disparages the manager/club) then I won't be happy with him at all. At that point, in my eyes, he would be revealing himself as a player who got a bit too big for his boots and was rightly shown the door.

well said

[Ace Ventura]

sorry peewee, Kuyt wasn't poor when we signed him! he was decent in his first season, picking up some goals that most people expected. What I expected is that he would score more goals the next season, unfortunatley with some personal problems, and our poor form in the season didn't help his cause! yes he was poor at the start of the season, but did well when he was moved to the right and scored some important goals in the Champions League that should he should be given credit for.

As for Crouch, I have an idea, lets drop torres next season for crouch, ok?

Why does Torres have to be dropped for Crouch ?

Cant they play together ?

We only played that 4-5-1 at the end of the season, we havent usually played that sort of system under Rafa anyway.

Which one proved more vital though? we started winning more games using the 4-5-1 formation, I recall we started using it in febuary.

Peewee, just some posts on here, to me they want torres dropped and crouch to play more games..

Or when we started picking a settled side.
If we had played 4-4-2 with Crouch and Torres up top in the majority of games my personal opinion is we would of got closer to the league than we did.

[woof woof !]

Never wanted him but have to admit he eventually did far better than I thought he ever would. Maybe a different manager and a different system will get more out of him. Seems a decent enough lad, won't miss him in a Liverpool shirt but I wish him well .

[Effes]

I think if Kuyt played a role more like Van Nistelrooy i.e. just stayed in the box,
then he'd get a decent goals tally over a season.

i don't think his finishing is that good mate, he might get lucky and get a few deflections of his shin when he is trapping the ball

Disagree Peewee,

When he just joined I was sure that was what Rafa would do with him.
He didn't have the pace or ability to play anywhere else,  he's been OK in the 4-3-3 - but you'd get better returns if you just stuck him in the box.
Imagine if you tried to anything else with Van Nistelrooy?!

However, even in a 4-4-2 he was anywhere but the box.
Obviously he was carrying out Rafa's orders.

[heimdall]

I think if Kuyt played a role more like Van Nistelrooy i.e. just stayed in the box,
then he'd get a decent goals tally over a season.

i don't think his finishing is that good mate, he might get lucky and get a few deflections of his shin when he is trapping the ball

Disagree Peewee,

When he just joined I was sure that was what Rafa would do with him.
He didn't have the pace or ability to play anywhere else,  he's been OK in the 4-3-3 - but you'd get better returns if you just stuck him in the box.
Imagine if you tried to anything else with Van Nistelrooy?!

However, even in a 4-4-2 he was anywhere but the box.
Obviously he was carrying out Rafa's orders.

You aren't really comparing Kuyt To RVN are you?? This thread has now become completely ridiculous