Liverpool FC Forum

[glenbuck patriot]

Being non PC Literate i wish i knew how to do the big writing in red I don't, must be my age!

So I would say that both players have contributed over the last few weeks, Kuyt was inmo mom over the two legs against Arsenal, with Crouch being instrumental in the unfortunate draw at the Emirates, a game i felt we could have won.

Are either what we would call class Liverpool Players, unfortunately NOT, heart and endeavour can get you so far in Kuyt's case but it doesn't outway pure class and to compete at this level that is what's required in a second striker to win the League.

As far as Crouch is concerned, far to often i have watched games where a CLASS striker would have gained us three points and buried the opposition the Blackburn game at Ewood 0-0 screams at me, I know this is only one example and as i have said Arsenal not only this season but last stands out as triumphs for Crouch, for me it's not enough we need a top strike partner for Torres if we are going to win the League again.

[duk]

'Crouch scores more often' .... Who cares??!

well I for one care. The only way to win a football match is to score more goals than your opponent. So it makes a huge difference to who scores more, especially for a forward.

Crouch is the best second option we have. I'm not saying play him in front of Torres, but when it comes to a straight choice between, Crouch/Kuyt/Voronin as to who should play instead of Torres (injury, suspension, rotation or whatever) then it has to be Crouch. None of the other three offer anything in terms of pace. Kuyt and Voronin don't link up as well as Crouch. Kuyt and Voronin can't hold the ball up as well as Crouch. Kuyt and Voronin offer you no get out ball, Crouch does. You can throw it long to him when the opposition are putting us under pressure. Finally, Crouch offers more of a goal threat. Crouch must play, if we're playing 4-4-2 and in this new system, if Torres isn't playing, then Crouch must.

I totally 100% agree with you when you say that Crouch is our 2nd best forward however but this does not mean:
a) He should have a run in the team because he is not good enough to be in our starting 11
b) He should be in the team ahead of Kuyt because the dutch man (whilst not being as good a forward as Crouch) happens to be our best option on the right atm

And just so you know i am not an idiot I know how th game of football works, i realise that the objective of the game is too score more goals than the other team and as such i would like to say how grateful i am for the goals Crouch has scored and set up for this club however i would also like to say how disapointed with how many times he has not taken chances that quite simply many other players would have.

Unfortuanly he has done more of the latter.

He is a good player (as you like to point out he's our 2nd best striker) this does not mean he is good enough for this club.

[torres_number9]

the man is a goalscorer - no doubt.

[duk]

the man is a goalscorer - no doubt.

no doubt

but so is Kevin Philips

In simply terms, whilst being a goalscorer he is not of good enough quality to be playing his football at this club

[god_bless_john_houlding]

'Crouch scores more often' .... Who cares??!

well I for one care. The only way to win a football match is to score more goals than your opponent. So it makes a huge difference to who scores more, especially for a forward.

NEWSFLASH - KUYT HAS BEEN PLAYING WIDE RIGHT THIS SEASON AND NOT AS A STRIKER

your knowledge of the game is thiner than girls aloud mate.

Kuyt's been playing wide right since mid Feburary. It's hardly a season, a couple of months, but then again you think we're second in the league because we should of beaten Wigan therefore we're awarded three points.

In future belt up.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

money talks thingy, haven't you ever heard that before and she's a scouse bird, in other words money grabbing slag. (sorry girls )

You will be sorry when i batter you , I'm not having that I'm afraid .

Scouse girls are the  best in the world right we are. PYJAMAS an all . AN ive got money

come on nanny, ya know I was takin the . nobody praises scousers more than me. i'm married to a scouser and she's money grabber, hence why she's married to me.

[duk]

'Crouch scores more often' .... Who cares??!

well I for one care. The only way to win a football match is to score more goals than your opponent. So it makes a huge difference to who scores more, especially for a forward.

NEWSFLASH - KUYT HAS BEEN PLAYING WIDE RIGHT THIS SEASON AND NOT AS A STRIKER

your knowledge of the game is thiner than girls aloud mate.

Kuyt's been playing wide right since mid Feburary. It's hardly a season, a couple of months, but then again you think we're second in the league because we should of beaten Wigan therefore we're awarded three points.

In future belt up.

O dear

no-one on here thinks that we ARE 2nd because the league table clearly shows us in 4th

but the point being made is that if we had killed off the games we should have done we could have easily been 2nd,

that fact begs the question are we really as far behind as many seem to think?

[Kharhaz]

but the point being made is that if we had killed off the games we should have done we could have easily been 2nd

Quite easily, but consistently the blame is on the player rather than the team. Isnt it funny how the eyes go blind when our favourites have stinkers? Gerrard, Carragher, Torres. But it always seems to be the case that the individual is to be blamed rather than the team.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

that fact begs the question are we really as far behind as many seem to think?

to put it simply...YES

to elaborate, teams who go on to win league titles kill off Birmingham, Villa, City, Bolton, Wigan more often than not. United have lost to West Ham and Bolton as well as two defeats to Man City. Difference being out of the five games against the top clubs they've won 4 and drawn one. Making up for their slack performances. We haven't made up for those slack performances against "lesser" teams by beating the top three. Why? Because we're not good enough to win the league. We may have the players, but that alone isn't good enough. We can sit and discuss "if only" till the cows come home but that doesn't win us a league title. There's no point dwelling on games we should of won. We have to forget them and move on. Look ahead to next season in the league. How many times have I said that over the past 20 years.

[Owzat]

but the point being made is that if we had killed off the games we should have done we could have easily been 2nd

Quite easily, but consistently the blame is on the player rather than the team. Isnt it funny how the eyes go blind when our favourites have stinkers? Gerrard, Carragher, Torres. But it always seems to be the case that the individual is to be blamed rather than the team.

We are a long way behind because we have only two key contributors in terms of goals and setting up play.

Liverpool 2007/08 = P53 W30 D15 L8 F109 A44

Without Gerrard's Goals = P53 W27 D17 L9 F88 A44
Without Torres' Goals = P53 W24 D15 L14 F79 A44
Without Torres' or Gerrard's Goals = P53 W17 D20 L16 F58 A44

Of course that isn't the number of wins etc that we would get without one, t'other or both as they would be replaced in the side by someone capable of scoring (or not), but it does indicate how vital their contribution is to our results. I threw in Crouch just for a laugh :

Without Crouch's Goals = P53 W30 D12 L11 F100 A44

We drew two that we might otherwise have lost, assuming his replacement didn't score which against Luton isn't that unlikely. We still (in theory) would have scored 4+ goals in a game ten times without Crouch's goals compared to the twelve times we actually have.

And why shouldn't people highlight players' poor performances? Isn't that how you identify the players who aren't good enough and those that are? It may not be wholly their fault when we lose, but if they pulled their weight and did their job then nobody would be pointing a finger at them. I don't see people blaming Gerrard, Carra or Torres too often. Who does get the finger is down to personal views and biases

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Crouch played against Fulam, Crouch scored. Well done again big fella.

[RedBlood]

imo crouch is a good underrated player who can get us goals (around 1 in 2) and offers a threat not many in the world can with his height, hes a useful player to have in the squad BUT is a plan B not a plan A....

saying that theres nothing wrong with having POSSIBILITYS

[god_bless_john_houlding]

IF at the start of next year we revert back to 4-4-2 which is what I'd prefer, Crouch would be easily plan A alongside Torres.

[RedBlood]

IF at the start of next year we revert back to 4-4-2 which is what I'd prefer, Crouch would be easily plan A alongside Torres.

i agree he would be a plan A in a 4 4 2 alongside torres and that would be a very good partnership in my opinion, but there is the chance we could buy another striker? or stick with the 4 5 1 formation in most games whitch cant be argued is working for us

[god_bless_john_houlding]

IF at the start of next year we revert back to 4-4-2 which is what I'd prefer, Crouch would be easily plan A alongside Torres.

i agree he would be a plan A in a 4 4 2 alongside torres and that would be a very good partnership in my opinion, but there is the chance we could buy another striker? or stick with the 4 5 1 formation in most games whitch cant be argued is working for us

I'm happy with the 4-2-3-1 malarky, results have picked up of late, when Torres or Crouch have played up top on their own. So there's an arguement to keep Crouch and use him as backup (I know that's not what he wants) for when Torres is injured/suspended/rotated.

I suspect we will buy another forward in the summer, mainly to replace Crouce. Nemeth to step up and replace Voronin.

I'd keep Crouch, but I don't think he will be here next year unfortunately. If not, I wish him well at his new club and he'll always get a nice round of applause off The Kop.