Perspective - All things considered

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Dalglish » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:05 pm

This season is one that many will want to forget in a hurry and no doubt there are many and varied reasons given by Fans, Players, Managers etc..... as to why we have patently failed to push on from last season.

Last season we became the first club in the history of the game to lose LESS games than the eventual winners. When I think back to last year it's that statistic that causes me most angst so what must it have done the the players ! 2 Games lost and 6 pts gained against the teams (Man U and Chelsea) who finished immediately above and below us.

However for me there is one overriding reason why we haven't performed this season..........Xabi Alonso !

Whatever the circumstances surrounding Alonso's departure there can be little doubt that we have missed him far more than United have missed Ronaldo. For us last year, Xabi was a marked man and must have considered getting a target printed on his back. Opposition teams mark the BEST players and 5 sending offs for fouls against Xabi was testament to that.

We have never fully recovered from his departure and no one has come close to filling his boots because he was such a quality player. I'm not the manager but for me I'd have brought Stevie G back into the middle and played Benni up front with Torres. I know that isn't a revelation to a lot of you and it's frustrated me all season that Rafa hasn't used this tactic but there you go.


The number ONE priority come the end of the season is to sort out the middle of the pitch. Lucas and Mascarano are essentially the same type of players so if I had my way it's Adios and hello a more creative midfielder. Lucas has scored once I think this season and has 1 assist, says it all really ! ???
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Postby mcmannyman » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:10 pm

alonso is a big part of it but not it all, its just a really bad season for us, but not the end. we might have to do something about maney though, maybe the lads could get rid of some of their bling to one of these postalgold things, and we can get some more actual talent in looks like we are gonna lose some important players this summer
Last edited by mcmannyman on Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby stmichael » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:38 pm

Dalglish wrote:The number ONE priority come the end of the season is to sort out the middle of the pitch. Lucas and Mascarano are essentially the same type of players so if I had my way it's Adios and hello a more creative midfielder. Lucas has scored once I think this season and has 1 assist, says it all really ! ???

In hindsight, would Gareth Barry have made a difference to our side do you think. In my eyes he's a decent player but he's hardly prolific and he's got no pace. Ok he can take a decent set piece but is he really better than anything we've currently go in central midfield?

Don't even get me started on Aquilani :D
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Postby Fauxy » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:47 pm

Aquilani could yet come good so shush! Its clear that he hasnt adjusted to this league yet but he has shown signs of his ability. Most people have already judged him as a flop yet he has only started a few matches and has came back from a massive injury. Give him time dammit!
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Postby Scottbot » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:49 pm

Whenever I need a bit of perspective i just stick this on and remember what it means to support LFC! Look at those fans! How much noise can 42,000 people make when they put their minds to it! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFChLjrSiAk&feature=related
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Postby Sir Roger » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:25 pm

stmichael wrote:
Dalglish wrote:The number ONE priority come the end of the season is to sort out the middle of the pitch. Lucas and Mascarano are essentially the same type of players so if I had my way it's Adios and hello a more creative midfielder. Lucas has scored once I think this season and has 1 assist, says it all really ! ???

In hindsight, would Gareth Barry have made a difference to our side do you think. In my eyes he's a decent player but he's hardly prolific and he's got no pace. Ok he can take a decent set piece but is he really better than anything we've currently go in central midfield?

Don't even get me started on Aquilani :D

Ok we wont
:;):

P.S. Barry is ca'ck
:nod
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:19 pm

Scottbot wrote:Whenever I need a bit of perspective i just stick this on and remember what it means to support LFC! Look at those fans! How much noise can 42,000 people make when they put their minds to it! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFChLjrSiAk&feature=related

Makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck ,only the Olympiakos game come close to it  that season ,the best atmosphere since Saint Etienne  :D
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Postby roberto green » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:46 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
Scottbot wrote:Whenever I need a bit of perspective i just stick this on and remember what it means to support LFC! Look at those fans! How much noise can 42,000 people make when they put their minds to it! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFChLjrSiAk&feature=related

Makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck ,only the Olympiakos game come close to it  that season ,the best atmosphere since Saint Etienne  :D

Even Mourinho was applauding the fans on the way off

Still gives me goose bumps now.speaking of which I think I'll watch Istanbul the final tonight,  it's been a while since Iv'e seen it after killing it after about a million times of watching it.
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Postby JC_81 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:20 am

Scottbot wrote:Whenever I need a bit of perspective i just stick this on and remember what it means to support LFC! Look at those fans! How much noise can 42,000 people make when they put their minds to it! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFChLjrSiAk&feature=related

So true Scott.  Anfield still sends a shiver down my spine and thats all that matters.
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Postby JC_81 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:59 am

edit
Last edited by JC_81 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:26 pm

Dalglish wrote:This season is one that many will want to forget in a hurry and no doubt there are many and varied reasons given by Fans, Players, Managers etc..... as to why we have patently failed to push on from last season.

Last season we became the first club in the history of the game to lose LESS games than the eventual winners. When I think back to last year it's that statistic that causes me most angst so what must it have done the the players ! 2 Games lost and 6 pts gained against the teams (Man U and Chelsea) who finished immediately above and below us.

However for me there is one overriding reason why we haven't performed this season..........Xabi Alonso !

Whatever the circumstances surrounding Alonso's departure there can be little doubt that we have missed him far more than United have missed Ronaldo. For us last year, Xabi was a marked man and must have considered getting a target printed on his back. Opposition teams mark the BEST players and 5 sending offs for fouls against Xabi was testament to that.

We have never fully recovered from his departure and no one has come close to filling his boots because he was such a quality player. I'm not the manager but for me I'd have brought Stevie G back into the middle and played Benni up front with Torres. I know that isn't a revelation to a lot of you and it's frustrated me all season that Rafa hasn't used this tactic but there you go.


The number ONE priority come the end of the season is to sort out the middle of the pitch. Lucas and Mascarano are essentially the same type of players so if I had my way it's Adios and hello a more creative midfielder. Lucas has scored once I think this season and has 1 assist, says it all really ! ???

:nod central midfield has been painful to watch this year, zero creativity in there.
Last edited by Fowler_E7 on Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scottbot » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:46 pm

stmichael wrote:In hindsight, would Gareth Barry have made a difference to our side do you think. In my eyes he's a decent player but he's hardly prolific and he's got no pace. Ok he can take a decent set piece but is he really better than anything we've currently go in central midfield?

I think he would have been top drawer for us mate. Quality player for me. Good passer, strong in the tackle, keeps things simple, good dead ball player and would have linked well with Stevie since they are such good mates.

Is he better than anything we've got at the moment? For me, Absolutely. I'd take him over Lucas or Aquilani (in fact you can have em both) all day and everyday.
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Postby Sir Roger » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:09 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stmichael wrote:In hindsight, would Gareth Barry have made a difference to our side do you think. In my eyes he's a decent player but he's hardly prolific and he's got no pace. Ok he can take a decent set piece but is he really better than anything we've currently go in central midfield?

I think he would have been top drawer for us mate. Quality player for me. Good passer, strong in the tackle, keeps things simple, good dead ball player and would have linked well with Stevie since they are such good mates.

Is he better than anything we've got at the moment? For me, Absolutely. I'd take him over Lucas or Aquilani (in fact you can have em both) all day and everyday.

Lucas- probably
Aquilani- debatable
Alonso (who Rafa wanted to get rid of for him) my ar'se
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Postby Homebooby » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:44 pm

I remember the general tone of the board at the end of the season being one of general positivity/optimism that we were now around the corner and on our way to better things, almost seemingly blind to the unusual nature of the 2008/9 season that left us in a position to almost win. Utd had an awful start and Chelsea didn't do much better which left us in the driving seat after a pretty 'ordinary' season ourselves. There were a few people on here who shared my opinion in the summer that this would be a tough season for us as we would see little investment to bring us up to a standard to be consistent throughout the season, absorb the odd injury and still be in the running around now. The other was that our spinal cord is starting to get on a little and we don't see any natural successors coming through or in. I think that viewpoint was fairly accurate.

What is interesting that of the big four, the 2 clubs that have always bought big have found their wings clipped (albeit Utd more than Chelsea) and I think that is going to be the shape of things to come. Utd find themselves in a similar situation to us, Scholes, Giggs, Van Der Sar to name but a few are on their last legs and the money is starting to dry up. I think that this is the case for the premiership now and the playing ground is in the process of levelling itself out a little, especially if that rule comes in that you can only spend what you make.

For me the biggest hurdle we had to get over last year (pre-season) was all the media attention surrounding our club. I remain of the opinion that no matter how professional you are, it is impossible not to be affected by that level of attention on and off the field and that is exacerbated when you are in a highly competitive profession with a limited timespan to achieve the goals you set out for. Speculation leads to speculation and it is entirely human for players to assume that the grass is greener at other clubs, to grow tired of the same old BS and actually want to move to a club where they can almost walk into a couple of pieces of silverware per season. Regardless of the fact that it is their job to be pros, it all becomes hugely unsettling.

In that respect, this season has been a lot more stable and as the story isn't changing, there is less for the media to grab onto and we start looking at the football again. To one of the earlier points, that is why we are more critical of the team this year compared to last season...we're focussed on the game and not the stuff off the pitch. For that reason, I am partially of the opinion that I would rather not have a major shake up of either manager or owner regardless of my opinion of either because we need that stability. Combine that with the world cup coverage to keep the media busy for a good part of the summer and that could become a reality.

I still think that a lot of the 'achievement' of Benitez's tenure has been largely invisible to the average fan and that has been a stabilisation of a club in turmoil during an unprecedented period of chaos in a rapidly changing football scene. It's twice as hard (at least) in business terms to turn something around than it is to let it unravel and that has undoubtably been the primary goal since he came in. As bad as things are now, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to imagine ourselves in a similar position as Portsmouth should we have had more negligent people running the club.

Before anyone jumps on the last point, my case here is that the negligence has been everywhere for at least the last 10 years, if not longer. EVERY club in the league has felt the pressure to compete and most have lived outside of their means. For that reason it could easily have been any club in that position.

The one thing that I am truly holding out for and I hope that Rafa gets the opportunity to live by this one himself, is the future output of the Liverpool academy. We've all known it for years, but the environment has changed so drastically in the last 2 years that the quality of home grown developed talent is paramount and no one can argue that Rafa challenged the old regime which had been producing nothing (or little) and took ownership of it. He was ahead of the curve then and it could well prove to be his masterstroke.

I agree with the posters that say we have done well to stay where we have until now considering all the circumstances. We should however prepare ourselves for a final position outside of the top 4 as it will go down to the wire unless we have a resurgence similar to the end of last season and if that doesn't happen, it is mostly going to be down to luck rather than outstanding quality if the cards fall in our favour.

The pros to us getting 4th spot is the obvious needed cash and the participation in the champions league which keeps the top players at our club and also puts us in contention with players in the transfer market. It should also reduce additional media attention of us not getting it.

That said, if we don't, we need to understand that it isn't going to be the end of the world or the club.
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Postby JC_81 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:56 pm

Good post Homebooby.

Definitely agree with some of your points, such as the playing field levelling out over the next season or two (with the exception of City though it would seem) and that it isn't the end of the world if we don't finish top four.

I think though there were definitely two schools of thought after last season and you were by no means on your own in thinking it would be a tough season.  I personally thought the experience of a title challenge would stand us in good stead and we would kick on, but as the season drew closer we looked really disjointed in pre-season and then decided to replace Alonso with someone who wouldn't play for three months.  My optimism definitely faded then, but there were numerous posters who already thought we had overachieved last season and had thrown away our best chance in years.
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