Liverpool FC Forum

[Dalglish]

Alas back to the debate about MO .....

In my opinion there is no debate , we do everything in our power to keep Michael Owen at Liverpool until it becomes blatantly obvious he is not going to stay then we sell to the highest (and preferably overseas) bidder. We cannot allow annother Mcmanaman type farce to repeat itself , although as I've said in another post on here that WASN'T all macca's fault.

As for where he sits in the worlds best strikers , well that debate can run and run ..........

[84-1083280474]

back to the MO debate;.............
imagine you run a big company, you are not doing so well this year, you need a change of management to correct it, you consult the most respected member of staff (staff popularity poll) for approval, (said member has been on the sick half the year and underperformed for 50% of the time he worked), he tells you who to employ but if he does'nt like him he wants out!
sure you know where I'm coming from, time we cashed in and sold him. I KNOW HE CAN STILL SCORE 20+ A SEASON BUT HE AINT BIGGER THAN THE CLUB THAT NURTURED HIM!

good point, thats what i though of houllier scenario

[big al]

I AM A BIG COMPANY, BUT NEVER AS BIG AS LIVERPOOL SO WHY SHOULD | IMAGINE LETS JUST LIVE WHAT WE ARE AND LETS JUST LIVE OUR DREAMS

[woof woof !]

Ok owens in the top 10 probably! better than bergkamp, Del-piero etc, .

Are we suppossed to take you seriously ?. 24 hrs earlier you had Owen at number 16 in the world (your list) Make up your mind.
     

[greenred]

This is a bleedin ridiculous thread.How can you position a striker on a list? The best strikers usually have the advantage of playing for the best teams so michael rules himself out of the reckoning on that criteria alone.Its probably no coincidence that he got european player of the year in a year when Liverpool looked like a class team.If he was playing for Real or Arsenal I reckon he would look twice the player and he probably knows it.Where was horseface on that list before he joined the sc.um?Nowhere,cos no one took him seriously until he joined a decent team.Anyway,where are all the south american based players? anyone would think they didnt play football.

[115-1073096938]

Greenred, thats where judging player ability comes into it lad.

Are you saying you can't be a class player in a poor side?

Because thats what it sounds like.

[greenred]

Well I didnt mean it to sound like that.Im saying that you dont get recognised as a truly world class player until you play for a great team and win the big trophies.Its exactly the same for managers.People dont rate O`Neill cos he hasnt won anything or proved himself with a top club where as Benitez has.Im not slagging michael btw,I just doubt the validity of placing players in lists.

[115-1073096938]

So can i ask, if you were asked to do a list, and say you were then asked to place Gerrard and Ljungberg in a list... who would you put higher?

Even Gerrard and G.Neville who's arguably played in one of the best teams in history...

Theres where the point lies.

I can understand where you are coming from sort of, but there are ways and means to judge players.

With managers i feel its a different scenario and you are better taking someone who's proven what they can do.

If you look at Shearer and Cole as another example... look who's won what... Shearer was still by far the better player though... you agree?

Sensible disscussion there, whats the world coming to ay

[greenred]

Ljunberg plays for a great team but he`s just a cog in the wheels,Viera would be a better comparison.The greatest players,at least the ones who are recognised as such,have all won the biggest trophies and played for the best teams of their era.Look at any selection of the greatest ever players and you will see world cup winners and european cup winners.Shearer is a good example.In england he will remembered but probably not in the rest of the world.Why? Probably because he`s won very little.


Yeah,it is quite a sensible discussion.Makes a change round here

[115-1073096938]

Again i hear what you are saying, but that doesn't make them a worse footballer.

[begintoend]

Back to Owen........

Those that thinks he played well, please provide supporting statements..
The french were more worried about the rest of the players esp. Rooney than Owen, "ENGLAND"S PRECIOUS WONDER STRIKER"
I think that Owen is rubbish. He did not contribute 5mins of action to the total 90mins.
Rooney was great, but Roo better learn to keep his cool though.

[anfieldadorer]

The latest euro match: Rooney is absolutely better than Owen, fullstop.

[stmichael]

I was watching a video of the 1997/98 season recently and I found myself asking this question. It has been said on numerous occasions, and by Michael himself, that his all round game has improved since he came onto the scene and this is undoubtedly true. Anyone who has spent 6 years playing at the highest level and not improved technically needs to look at himself. What I will attempt to discuss however is his effectiveness as a player.

The Michael Owen of today is now much better at receiving the ball with his back to goal. As he has grown stronger he is now better equipped to withstand the attentions of a defender and his touch is also better.

With his increased strength and stature, his aerial ability has improved manifold. Although still relatively small, he is more than able to hold his own and now scores regularly with his head. This area of his game has shown the most marked improvement.

There is then his previously much-maligned left foot. He has clearly worked on what was an obvious weakness. Left footed Michael Owen goals were a very rare commodity prior to the Treble season but since then he has shown a greater willingness to shoot with his left foot, reflecting a greater confidence in it. Whilst it is clear that he still instinctively uses his right foot whenever possible, he is now more than capable of scoring with his “swinger”. Cup Final, anyone?

He is also scoring a greater number as well a greater variety of goals. I’m not sure of the exact figures but I think that barring his injury-interrupted season of 98/99 he has scored more goals than in his debut season.

So there you go. He is now a better player. Isn’t he?

The Michael Owen of 1998 had the surprise factor. He was also young and fearless and eager to do well. These factors were instrumental in making him the most exciting prospect in the world in 1998.

It has become clear in recent times that the hamstring problems that have dogged Michael for 5 years have taken the edge of his blistering pace. The 98 version was a bundle of energy and was a nightmare to defend against. The ’04 version is still reasonably quick but many defenders are now able to keep pace with him. In ’98 that didn’t happen. No defender had an earthly of beating him for flat out speed.

With this pace came the confidence that he could beat anyone put in front of him. The ’98 version was equally happy dropping deep or playing off the last defender. Although more slight than he is now, he used his body extremely well. Using his pace to get in front of a defender he would then lean in and with his low centre of gravity was almost impossible to stop. He KNEW he could beat his man. The ’04 version either no longer has this belief or doesn’t have the ability.

I don’t know if it is my memory playing tricks but I don’t remember the ’98 version missing many chances. He scored 18 Premiership goals (joint Golden Boot winner) but often didn’t play as the main striker. It is very difficult to assess whether he was a better finisher because there are so many factors that determine it. The most mysterious of them all being confidence.

Along with his goalscoring though, the ’98 version was also the leading assist man that season. He was more willing to take up wide positions and provide chances as well as making his own. The ’04 version is much more reliant on his team mates for service. Whether this is because of the tactics employed by Evans vs Houllier  is a whole other topic but it must be considered. I believe though that the Michael Owen of 1998 was a much easier player to play with.

Is it unreasonable to expect a player that is such a sensation at a young age to continue in the same vein and all the time add to the attributes that he already has? You would think not but I tried to think of players that have achieved this and could only come up with Pele and Maradona. That is a bit difficult to live up to. In Wayne Rooney we can see the kind of fearlessness that Michael Owen showed 6 years ago. Will Rooney be a shadow of his former self and follow the likes of Gascoigne and Fowler into the category of  “Unfulfilled Potential”? My point is that maybe it is unfair to expect Michael to be twice the player he was.

I feel that whilst the ’04 version is a more technically complete player, the ’98 version is a far more potent and versatile attacking weapon.

In answer to my original question, I suppose the only way to answer it is with this hypothetical question.

“If you had a time machine and could bring an 18yr old Michael Owen back to the present day and replace the 24 yr old, would you?

On balance, it might be worth a shot. He would make a better partner for Cisse.

What do you think?

[JohnBull]

I think that Owen is one of the finest players to wear THE SHIRT -ever.
The muppets who slag last nights performance want to look at the game again- he was occupying three defenders all night and the space left should have been used better by the fligh-be-nights around him.
If the Swede had not done a friggin Houllier and changed a winning side all would have been different.

[115-1073096938]

For two years nearly now, he's looked a shadow of the player.

Yet he's still scored the goals.

He's lacking confidence fitness and i feel since the treble season he's been used wrongly in the wrong system.

The main thing though is the confidence. Imo he just looks so down all the time. I think this will change this coming season.

But... for any idiot to suggest he's past his best or he's lost it is simply bang out of order and just WRONG!!!

As johnbull said, one of the finest ever players to play for Liverpool. Genuine World class.