Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

Every newspaper you read and every pundit you are forced to listen to these days seem to make reference to Alonso's departure as the main reason for our poor start this season.  While I agree that the midfield is a problem at the moment, that has as much to do with Mascherano underperforming and Lucas blatantly not being up to it (never has been) as it has to do with Alonso's sale.

I think some balance has to be brought to this debate as it's starting to irritate me a bit.  Firstly, Alonso wanted to go and we got a pretty good price for him if we're honest.  I heard one 'respected journalist' (not by me though) on Sky's sunday supplement over the weekend saying we 'shouldn't have taken 30 million for him' and 'he was Liverpool's most important player'!!  Absolute sh.ite.  This is the same media that have digs every time we win saying that we are overly reliant on Gerrard, then Gerrard and Torres.  I can't remember any one (pundit, journalist, ex-player etc) saying that Alonso was our most important player, or most influential player last season until after he had left.  Why were the papaers not saying last season that we were overly reliant on Alonso then??

What I'll say next will undoubtedly upset a few folk on here, but imo Alonso is an overrated player.  Overrated by Madrid who paid too much, overrated by the media (in HINDSIGHT only) and overrated by our own fans, who seem to have forgotten that he was distinctly average for two entire seasons before he got a kick up the backside last season and then produced a bit of form.  He is still a quality player no doubt, but lets get it into perspective.  His style never won everyone over.  There were always fans who wished he'd get forward more or contribute more in terms of goals and assists.  There were always those who thought he sat too deep and that it hindered our attacking play.  But suddenly all that is forgotten and his departure is the reason we will be fighting to scrape into the top 4 rather than challenge the title??  No way.

His loss is felt mainly because there are no decent backup midfielders in the squad, at least until Aquilani is fit.  Let's judge how big a loss Alonso really is after we've had a chance to assess his replacement.  In the meantime we just need to knuckle down and dig out the wins we need to keep us in the running.

[GYBS]

[Sabre]

Look John, even I, who I have praised Alonso more than you have, haven't said EVER that Alonso was our most influential player. For me Gerrard was, is, and probably will be until he gets old.

Yes, I do think that Alonso's game was underrated or taken for granted sometimes, but the english journos are always exagerating, and they do that to paint a dire situation. It's what they do.

Nevertheless, I disagree Alonso was "average" in his dip. If what you mean is he was "average" for what he could provide, ok, I agree. But not average compared to other midfielders. (Already done this debate)

Look, Alonso is a player I used to love (I haven't seen him yet in Madrid, and I refused to go to Anoeta to watch the game against Real Madrid a few weeks back), but let's not underrate the squad we have. We have to sort out things, sure, but we cannot exagerate.

Evidently a Liverpool without Alonso and no replacement to Alonso is a weaker Liverpool, but that doesn't mean the remaining Liverpool squad is shíte. And if we sort out things, and we will, that won't prove right the theory that Alonso was an "average" player. It was, for his standards.

[JC_81]

Just put me off my dinner with that picture, cheers GYBS

[GYBS]

Just put me off my dinner with that picture, cheers GYBS

sorry mate 

[JoeTerp]

that picture reminds me of Martin Luther

[LFC2007]

You've basically spoiled the thread with that GYBS. I'm not coming in here anymore.

[Rush Job]

You've basically spoiled the thread with that GYBS. I'm not coming in here anymore.

[kunilson]

overrated....not really in my eyes.

he wasn't a godlike player for us..............but for what his job was, sitting back and dictating the tempo. picking a great pass and keeping a hold on the midfield, he was very good....and i dont think anyone can doubt that the spine of our team had him firmly in it.

maybe the hype over him has been blown out of proportion, which i agree it has and it is annoying hearing these "experts" banging on about that after claiming we are a two man team....but i think our form in general has emphasized this whole alonso thing more. once we play how we know we can it will be better, we produced some great performances without him even last season. hope Aquilani settles in quickly...

[tubby]

that picture reminds me of Martin Luther

..King?

How so? Is this more wierd American humor Joe? 

[bigmick]

Well when you replace a player with another who is a pale shadow in terms of ability, they'll look pretty important. Raplace Carragher with Titus Bramble and our talismanic centre half would look like Franz Beckenbauer, form dip or no form dip. Replace Skrtel with Boumsong, Reina with Massimo Taibi, or Torres up top with Kuyt and you'll pretty quickly notice that the team doesn't perform quite so well. This is where we are with the Xabi situation, we're attempting to replace him with a player who not only isn't anywhere near good enough to fill the role, but also with a player IMHo who actually isn't suited to that position either. We're kind of compounding the problem of his lack of comparitive ability, almost like buying Titus Bramble who isn't good enough but then trying to play him as a sweeper.

Sabes makes the valid point that Lucas has reasonably ably filled in for Alonso before, and he has. It's all about momentum thopugh for me. If and when Aquilani comes in we go on a winning streak, by all means rest him and bung Lucas in and it'll probably work. That's when the thing has already gelled though, the wheels are in motion and we have a bit of rhythm and tempo about us. We know from past experience, bitter experience if truth be told that the hardest thing is to establish that rhythm, get something going. Once you've got it, then you can bring the odd inferior player in and although the wheels may wobble, they may not totally come off.

As for the topic in hand and Xabi being overrated, well clearly he was/is by some but not by everyone I don't think. Undoubtedly he will become the latest stick the press will use to beat us, but there is no question that when he played as well as he did last season, he was/is a big loss. Yes he never scored nor made many goals, but he did contribute to our flow and anyone with an ounce of clue about football couldn't and didn't deny that. He isn't though a Torres and even less a Gerrard in terms of importance, and it is possible to imagine a scenario where we could not only replace him but perhaps even improve on him. Had we signed Gareth Barry instead of Alberto Aquilani, we wouldn't even be having the conversation I don't think but we didn't and we are. Hopefully once the Italian heals we won't have the conversation any more, but until then and while we keep playing Lucas in his spot, Alonso's apparent importance will grow week by week.

[Ben Patrick]

Interesting thread John, and one that will probably send Lando into cardiac arrest 

I think to most of us its more like you said the fact that Aquilani isnt fit yet so we are stuck with Lucas and mascherano. Who just dont compliment each other at all.
I think we can get away with the two of those sometimes but at the start of the season when Gerrard and Torres are not fit and sharp it just doesnt work.
We will be ok, he was a top player alonso of that there is no doubt, but like you said John he wasnt THE most important player.
He did alot of things well but teams could stop him playing at times by sitting on him and hitting him as soon as he received posession.

Main point in all of this is that he wanted to go, then Real overpaid massively.
Not much Rafa could do about it and i think thats another reason the press have jumped on it so much.
Frustrating it is without doubt but we know what the press are like always looking for an issue to constantly beat Rafa and our club with.
In the star today brian woolnough talking about this being Gerrards last big chance and in it he states that he hopes Rafa doesnt focus on the champions league and rotate.
Where did that come from ?
He hasnt so far and has played as settled a side as possible, lazy journalism an the same tired old sh!t.

Like it or not we will get this all season about Xabi.

I think Rafa did the right thing in the end, good price for player that didnt want to be here. The fact that he hasnt been given all of the money is the more significant factor in all of this imo.

[Sabre]

Main point in all of this is that he wanted to go, then Real overpaid massively.

It's a shame he didn't want to stay, but if his "fed up with Rafa" situation would have been less flagrant, and we had time and money to wait, we could have ripped more money off them.

Ben, you consider him a top player in your post, so tell me, what do other clubs ask us when we knock at their doors for the Johnsons and Aquilanis? Aquilani is cheaper because he had not continuous run in his game, but if he came from a great season we wouldn't have got him for that money.

I know it's an indecent amount of money (more money that Man U received for Beckham), but market is like that, and when you have someone that Real Madrid wants badly or Barcelona for that matter, you can't say 30M is to overpay massively. Not if we look how other top players cost.

[Ben Patrick]

Main point in all of this is that he wanted to go, then Real overpaid massively.

It's a shame he didn't want to stay, but if his "fed up with Rafa" situation would have been less flagrant, and we had time and money to wait, we could have ripped more money off them.

Ben, you consider him a top player in your post, so tell me, what do other clubs ask us when we knock at their doors for the Johnsons and Aquilanis? Aquilani is cheaper because he had not continuous run in his game, but if he came from a great season we wouldn't have got him for that money.

I know it's an indecent amount of money (more money that Man U received for Beckham), but market is like that, and when you have someone that Real Madrid wants badly or Barcelona for that matter, you can't say 30M is to overpay massively. Not if we look how other top players cost.

I see what ye saying about Real and Barca paying silly money for other players but i also think that they massively over paid for all of them as well.

Last summer Rafa would have taken around 16 million for Alonso. We ended up with nearly double, for a player that had made up his mind that he wanted to leave i think its good business.

The only big problem for me is the fact that he hasnt been able to use the money to strengthen the other weak areas.

[Sabre]

The only big problem for me is the fact that he hasnt been able to use the money to strengthen the other weak areas.

Yeah I think we all agree that.

And that's frustrating both for the Rafa  loves and Bashers, because if someone else comes to manage this club, I don't think he'll get the money Rafa hasn't, not at least under the same american cúnts. That's the most worrying thing of all.