Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

Pacheco is the one with the big future imo.  He is a cut above anything in that reserve league and dare I say good enough to make an impact in the first team even now.  He is pretty small and that's probably the only reason why he hasn't been thrown into the first team yet.  Great turn of pace, great balance, good dribbler, good passer, great shot, excellent at set pieces.  Defensive side to his game needs a bit of work if he's going to be a midfielder, but apart from that he's got it all.  If his attitude's right and he keeps improving he'll be some player.

I always liked Nemeth but the clock is ticking.  I feel if we really thought he had a chance we'd have kept him this season and not loaned him out.

Can't see Ecclestone or Amoo making it.  Great pace and decent finishers but technique isn't great, even at reserve level - Amoo especially, his first touch will stop him making it at the top level.

Ayala and Mavinga look good at the back, but it's very hard to judge defenders at that age I think.

[sgs]

Saw Buchman at the FIFA U-17 World Cup for Germany. Think we have something there...

[bunglemark2]

Daniel Pacheco (19 in January) – Too good for reserve football, should have had more exposure at senior level by now. He has been with the reserves for too long and it wont be long before he becomes disillusioned and either stops progressing as a footballer or asks for a move. He is small but he isn’t going to get much bigger so he should be chucked into the deep end and loaned out to a Championship/Premiership side in January to see how he copes. He is a potential first teamer but the longer he plays at a level he is too good for the less likely it is he will make it.

Martin Kelly (20 in April) – Another that is too good for the reserves now and needs to be playing competitive football in order to progress. Should be loaned out in January to a Championship/Premiership side.

Daniel Ayala (Turned 19 at the beginning of the month) – Looks composed and dominate at reserve level but lacks the confidence when stepping into the first team. Another that needs a loan deal so he can play regularly.

Krisztian Nemeth (21 in January) – In all honestly he is a little over rated by our fans. Good box player and with a little bit of experience would be a better striking option to have in the squad than Voronin but I can’t see him getting in the starting 11 on a regular basis. Don’t see the point of loaning him out to AEK Athens apart from the financial gain. He should have been loaned out in the Championship to a club that can offer him a starting spot. He may make it into the squad next year but he will be sold of sooner or later without making a major impact.

Nathan Eccleston (19 in December) – He just isn’t that special. Will be loaned out and eventually sold for a 6 figure sum.

David Amoo (19 in April) – I don’t really see the fuss surrounding him. His success for the under 18s and reserves is based around being quicker than everyone else. When he steps up to senior level that won’t be enough and his footballing ability will be exposed as not being good enough for the highest level. My guess is that he will hang around for a bit, have a few loan spells and will eventually be sold to a team down the leagues for a 6 figure sum.
 
Chris Mavinga (19 in May) – Has shone in the reserves and if he continues like this for the rest of the season he should not stay with the reserves next year. Should be loaned so he can be tested at senior level.

Alex Kacaniklic (Turned 18 in August) – This guy doesn’t get mentioned much but every time I have seen him play he looks good and links up very well with Pacheco from the left wing. I would be interested to see him tested against better players.

Jay Spearing, Damien Plessis, Nabil El Zhar, Stephen Darby, Steven Irwin – These guys are just making up the numbers and should be sold to the highest bidder. None of them are good enough.

pretty much spot on. In fairness:

Pacheco was scheduled to play in both carling cup matches. Missed the first due to an injury he got right before and the 2nd due to being away with Spain U19.

Kelly really hasn't been playing in the reserves much anyway. Not sure who Rafa rates as the better player right now between him and Degen, and Degen isn't fit enough to be our backup RB anyway. I think Kelly needs to stick around once he is fit and be our cover for Johnson, while also being an understudy to Carra in training.  I get the impression most fans see him as a CB, but he is VERY good at getting forward and puts in some good crosses too. I think he could be a very dynamic RB. Big and strong to bully around any winger, and with the quickness to keep up with them, the dribiling ability to go by people on ocassion and the accuracy to put in some really dangerous crosses.


Ayala still has some learning at reserve level (seems like you want to get rid of the whole team, I mean we have to play somebody).  For me, its hard to tell how high his ceiling is. My guess is that while may never be quite first XI material, I could certainly see him being a pretty decent 3rd or 4th choice CB, which is an important role.


Agree about Nemeth, although its a myth that he is a "box player" he actually plays more like Voronin in the course of a game, but with a pretty decent finishing touch, and a knack for getting on the end of crappy goals on set peices. But he certainly doesn't have the pace to play on anybodys back shoulder.

Pretty much agree about Eccleston and Amoo. Both are a bit selfish too.

Don't think Mavinga should be loaned out yet, he is still learning English and adapting to the country, and has only been around for a few months. I think it would be unneccessary added on culture shock to have him move again and meet all new people and get used to a new system. I think he should continue playing in great form for the whole year and get a shot in pre-season and at the end of august evaluate to send him out or have him as 4th choice.

Kaca certainly has some talent. but can go missing in games.


I would say Irwin is worth keeping. Not that he is anything too amazing, but he could help out in a serious injury crisis at almost any position.



I also like the look of Palsson who is just steadily getting a little bit better each game.  Have no idea where his ceiling is, but I'm rooting for him.

Lads
Can't help thinking you're both being a bit negative about these lads. Maybe you'll be proven right, maybe not - who knows ? - but it's probably fair to say that every professional improves with a step-up in quality of opposition/competition (i.e. from the Academy U-18's to the Reserves to the first team), and that none is the finished article at 18, 19 or 20.
All of these lads have a way to go yet before they can be considered as the finished article, so I'd be inclined to give them a chance and see what happens....

[bunglemark2]

Seemingly the above post might be academic - some of the young lads are increasingly frustrated at the stagnation of their prospects at the club:

Benítez will be hoping several of his highly-regarded youngsters will be able to fill the breach, though uncertainty continues to cloud the futures of Nathan Eccleston – the young striker recently handed his first-team debut – after he rejected a contract extension last week amid reported interest from several Premier League clubs, and Lauri Dalla Valle, a Finnish prospect believed to be discontent with his lack of progress through the club’s ranks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport....ks.html

[Owzat]

Why aren't we producing the kids? Last player to establish themselves in the first team coming through the ranks is Gerrard who made his debut back in 2000? Warnock, Guthrie, Mellor and a few others have come through but not been (deemed in the case of Warnock) good enough to make it at Anfield, but I'm worried that our supposed "best" youngsters are a FB, CB and DM or is that simply a Rafa influence? Is our youth system so bad we don't have kids good enough to be challenging the likes of Voronin, El Zhar and N'Gog for a place on the bench, or other weak bench players for the 1st XI?

I'd like to see Nemeth and Pacheco on the bench, if only to see if the hype that some on here surround them in is justified. Not only is our team playing cr ap, but we've not even a huge number of brit kids to cheer on. It pains me to see the goner kids, thrown in at the deep end at times but showing more likely to swim than our kids. We are way behind the mancs and Arsenal, although they both indulge as much as Chelsea and we do in pinching kids, but they do have brit kids as well.

[Benny The Noon]

they have brits kids who cost 5 mil plus . And our shining lights in the reserves at present our forward players - amoo pacheco and ecclestone , those guys are destroying other reserve teams . Is ngog himself not a kid who so far has played 7 games in first team this season getting himself 4 goals in the process ? !

[big al]

Owzat, Regardless of what anyone on here says,I have to agree with the the tone of your question
Why aren't we producing the kids? Its all bout scouting system and fundementally opportunity.  Good Brit Kids and their parents are aware that Liverpool have a poor record of youth development.  Be honest but if you were a parent and you had offers from Liverpool or West Ham were would you rather your son went in terms of his future prospects.  Man U have a better track record than us, in fact the basis of Man U for the last 10 years were youth players who came through IE Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville's, Brown, Butt, Fletcher I'm biased but Man U once again have got the best centre halve in these islands from a youth development (The repuplic could do with Johnny Evans tonight). Even Man u's bad-uns are'nt bad and made tem money.

[Igor Zidane]

Reds sign Luton youngster

Wednesday November 18 2009Liverpool have paid an undisclosed fee for Luton youngster Dave Moli.
Fourteen-year-old forward Moli had been part of the Hatters' under-15 side but will now move with his family to Merseyside, where he will continue his schooling and train at the Reds' academy.

Luton reported another Premier League club to the Football Association for making an illegal approach for the player, but Liverpool's approach through the Blue Square Premier club has been accepted.

Luton's youth development officer Gregg Broughton said: "We never like to lose talented players, but it is important that we do not stand in the way of young players' development."

Liverpool have intensified their search for young players following a restructuring of the reserve and academy set-up, and manager Rafael Benitez is impressed by the changes that have been made.

The Spaniard said: "It is much better now. The players can see the difference and I am sure it will be easier for them to progress.
"It is always important to develop your own players. Local players have passion and desire and I think that is the key if you want to be consistent and stay at the top - you have to produce your own players.

"When you make changes it can take time, but we all have the same plan, everybody is following it and we try to do the same things here at Melwood (the first-team training complex) and at the academy."
Rodolfo Borrell and Jose Segura were just two of several new arrivals at the club's youth complex at Kirkby, and the manager feels the changes are helping drive the academy forward.

He said: "They are doing well, but we didn't bring in just these two coaches. We brought in more people and changed staff. When you talk with agents, or people who are involved with coaching or watching the academy, everyone says it has changed a lot."

Press Association


http://www.independent.ie/breakin....64.html

[Ben Patrick]

they have brits kids who cost 5 mil plus . And our shining lights in the reserves at present our forward players - amoo pacheco and ecclestone , those guys are destroying other reserve teams . Is ngog himself not a kid who so far has played 7 games in first team this season getting himself 4 goals in the process ? !

Ngog that cost 1.5 million and went straight into the first team is classed as a kid ??
Clutching at straws it seems.

[Benny The Noon]

Well signed at the age of 19 and 3.5 million cheaper than Ramsey and 8.5 million cheaper than walcott and all around the same age so if they are counted as kids for future why cant Ngog ?

[Ben Patrick]

Well signed at the age of 19 and 3.5 million cheaper than Ramsey and 8.5 million cheaper than walcott and all around the same age so if they are counted as kids for future why cant Ngog ?

I was p'ssed when i wrote that so not sure what i was actually getting at 

The only thing i can imagine is that Ngog was signed with the intention of going straight into the first team squad.

Again though still not sure where i am going with this 

[Benny The Noon]

Fair enough Ben - i think he was more than likely signed for back up

[stmichael]

Reds sign Luton youngster

Wednesday November 18 2009Liverpool have paid an undisclosed fee for Luton youngster Dave Moli.
Fourteen-year-old forward Moli had been part of the Hatters' under-15 side but will now move with his family to Merseyside, where he will continue his schooling and train at the Reds' academy.

Luton reported another Premier League club to the Football Association for making an illegal approach for the player, but Liverpool's approach through the Blue Square Premier club has been accepted.

Luton's youth development officer Gregg Broughton said: "We never like to lose talented players, but it is important that we do not stand in the way of young players' development."

Liverpool have intensified their search for young players following a restructuring of the reserve and academy set-up, and manager Rafael Benitez is impressed by the changes that have been made.

The Spaniard said: "It is much better now. The players can see the difference and I am sure it will be easier for them to progress.
"It is always important to develop your own players. Local players have passion and desire and I think that is the key if you want to be consistent and stay at the top - you have to produce your own players.

"When you make changes it can take time, but we all have the same plan, everybody is following it and we try to do the same things here at Melwood (the first-team training complex) and at the academy."
Rodolfo Borrell and Jose Segura were just two of several new arrivals at the club's youth complex at Kirkby, and the manager feels the changes are helping drive the academy forward.

He said: "They are doing well, but we didn't bring in just these two coaches. We brought in more people and changed staff. When you talk with agents, or people who are involved with coaching or watching the academy, everyone says it has changed a lot."

Press Association


http://www.independent.ie/breakin....64.html

the way things are going, he'll probably be starting upfront against city, if he doesn't get injured before then of course.

[JoeTerp]

When N'gog was signed, he was an inbetweener, sort of a half reserve, half squad player. 1.5 mill is pretty much pennys these days, and he is younger than Nemeth.

[heimdall]

Reds sign Luton youngster

Wednesday November 18 2009Liverpool have paid an undisclosed fee for Luton youngster Dave Moli.
Fourteen-year-old forward Moli had been part of the Hatters' under-15 side but will now move with his family to Merseyside, where he will continue his schooling and train at the Reds' academy.

Luton reported another Premier League club to the Football Association for making an illegal approach for the player, but Liverpool's approach through the Blue Square Premier club has been accepted.

Luton's youth development officer Gregg Broughton said: "We never like to lose talented players, but it is important that we do not stand in the way of young players' development."

Liverpool have intensified their search for young players following a restructuring of the reserve and academy set-up, and manager Rafael Benitez is impressed by the changes that have been made.

The Spaniard said: "It is much better now. The players can see the difference and I am sure it will be easier for them to progress.
"It is always important to develop your own players. Local players have passion and desire and I think that is the key if you want to be consistent and stay at the top - you have to produce your own players.

"When you make changes it can take time, but we all have the same plan, everybody is following it and we try to do the same things here at Melwood (the first-team training complex) and at the academy."
Rodolfo Borrell and Jose Segura were just two of several new arrivals at the club's youth complex at Kirkby, and the manager feels the changes are helping drive the academy forward.

He said: "They are doing well, but we didn't bring in just these two coaches. We brought in more people and changed staff. When you talk with agents, or people who are involved with coaching or watching the academy, everyone says it has changed a lot."

Press Association


http://www.independent.ie/breakin....64.html

the way things are going, he'll probably be starting upfront against city, if he doesn't get injured before then of course.

Or more likely we never ever hear of him again.