Liverpool FC Forum

[Dalglish]

Football is NOT the pretty sentimental fluffy product that SKY would have you believe. No matter how many pictures of fans in painted faces walking to the ground arm in arm they show you, it's not a fair representation of the game. Whilst the game can be beuatiful I have to tell you as a supporter most of the time it's downright ugly and distasteful.

At Bolton recently I was stood next to a couple of the most unsavoury individuals you would like to meet. Their body language and verbals were beyond passionate support. Maybe I noticed more because my 7 year old son was attending his first away game and of course things were not going well on the pitch but nowhere else would we deem it acceptable to swear and remonstrate like they did.

Footballs sick and its not just the players who need help !

This ^^^

My 7 year old boy plays kids footie on a weekend. Only kick about 7 a side stuff.

But me....................some of the parents who take their kids to play are truly in the gutter of behaviour and decency.

Shouting and swearing from the touchlines at their kids and other kids over a little kick about, ive seen full scale punch ups, mums and dads heckling 6 & 7 year old kids................and the kids learn from it.

Society is

Hi Si,

My 7 year old also plays in a  local league and is in his second season.

I played up to a decent level years ago so I know and have seen some of the unsavoury aspects within the grassroots game.

I'm happy to report that due to the ethos within my son's club I haven't experienced too much aggro yet but know its just a matter of time.

However, if the game at the top which he and millions like him watches every week is awash with, spats, bad tackles, diving, goading, swearing, unsportsmanlike behaviour and cheating then its just a matter of time before it infects the whole of the game. 

At Bolton the other week the guy at the side of me shouted for someone to pickup Reo Coker and referred to him as a W** !    I know I should have said something to a steward or policeman but I was preoccupied with trying to protect my 7 year old from the barrage of abuse he was hearing and trying to find alternative seats where he could see the game (everyone stands up at LFC away games !) and not be subject to stuff he never hears from me !

Sadly, many fans mistake agression as passion and see nothing wrong saying and doing stuff at the game that they wouldn't dream of doing anywhere else.

To say I'm disillusioned is an understatement !

[stmichael]

love this club like you wouldn't believe. absolutely despise the game in general. it's so far removed from what actually happens on the pitch it's laughable.

[Benny The Noon]

Fake Plastic Respect
February 12, 2012 by Jim Boardman | 0 comments
THE DAY Luis Suárez was charged by the FA for the incident with Patrice Evra the media had fallen over each other in a race to condemn Sepp Blatter for a comment he made about handshakes. What he’d said seemed to be along the lines of endorsing racism on a football pitch during a game – as long as the players involved shake hands afterwards.
It was a stupid thing to say and one that he’ll never live down, but if football was the kind of game the authorities want it to be – and that includes the English FA – the comment wouldn’t be completely without merit. But football isn’t a nice pleasant game played by people full of ‘respect’ for each other. It’s a regularly depressing game watched, played, run and reported on by far too large a proportion of selfish individuals. Respect in football is as fake as the outrage from the hacks who change their principles every time there’s a new line to go for to earn their crust.

Liverpool fans find it difficult to look at Alex Ferguson and see any good in him. Maybe there is some good in him – after all most Liverpool fans would have thought the same of Gary Neville but many now find themselves agreeing with a painfully high amount of his punditry – but it’s hard to see it.
It’s hard to imagine Manchester United fans would think any differently about Kenny Dalglish, certainly if the Man U opinion formers are anything to go by.
This applied long before Suárez and Evra had their disputed conversation and it will probably go on long after both players have hung up their boots or taken them elsewhere.
With that in mind it goes without saying that the two managers will think much the same of each other. Ferguson’s hatred of Dalglish goes back a long way and whilst many of Kenny detractors were laughing at his return in place of their beloved Roy Hodgson it’s unlikely there was much laughter from the more elderly Glaswegian.
Whatever really went on between Evra and Suárez, there still isn’t enough evidence to be completely certain. That’s something that’s been discussed at length by numerous people – and of course ignored by those who don’t like to sully their agenda with truth or questions about what the truth might be.
Sadly for football, and the fight against racism, the case has done nothing to make it easier to work out the truth of any future incident along those lines that takes place.
The FA’s independent panel seem to think there’s a good chance of it happening again – this is an extract from their lengthy report on the Suárez-Evra incident:
“We took into account the fact that it is a real albeit unattractive trait of human nature that we all act from time to time, to greater or lesser degrees, in ways which may be out of character. This is especially so when we feel under pressure, or challenged, or provoked, or pushed into a corner. We do and say things that we are not proud of and regret, and that we might try and deny, sometimes even to ourselves. We occasionally things that we would be embarrassed to admit to family or friends. It is not inconsistent to have black colleagues and friends and relatives, and yet say things to strangers or acquaintances about race or colour that we would not say directly to those closer to us.”
Quite an admission from the panel (imagine if Blatter had said that stuff in the last sentence) but the general point is fairly obvious. People do things they shouldn’t do, and wouldn’t normally do, in the heat of the moment if feeling under pressure.
And this is where the handshake comes in, or where it would come in if football was the kind of game the authorities like to pretend it is. If two players, on opposing sides, are angry with each other for some reason, the two managers, from the two opposing sides, should be able to sort it out. That ‘sorting out’ might still lead to action from The FA, it might lead to one or both clubs disciplining their own players, but if football’s the kind of respect-filled game the authorities want us to believe it is then that handshake idea works perfectly every time.
Even if the managers are at loggerheads there’s still – in this idyllic version of the game – plenty of respect between the officials higher up at both clubs. A director of football at one club can chat to a director at the other club. They get the handshakes started, the dialogue underway, the problems ironed out at least to a point where punishment is for something that happened, not an extreme playground argument version of what happened.
Football isn’t that kind of idyllic game though, not in its current guise, certainly not in England under the ‘control’ of The FA with a greedy Premier League atop the league structure, fair to itself but dismissive of the league that feeds into it.
The Premier League isn’t even fair to the punter. The price of tickets is astronomical, as is the cost of the tacky shirts the clubs throw out three versions of each season. The FA doesn’t care, it has its own tacky shirts to sell and as long as it gets the use of those players whose wages make those tickets so expensive why would they care? There’s always the option of watching on the TV – but even that’s out of reach of more and more people as the sport leaves its past behind and heads for a place that the people who made the game what it is would never recognise.
Handshakes used to be something that happened before cup finals and internationals. The players would line up, some dignitary would shake their hands, then the tracky tops would be ditched and some football would be played. Nowadays it costs so much to go to a bog-standard league game that maybe the powers-that-be feel they need to try and pretend it’s as good as a cup final. Handshakes you can hardly see anyway when you’re at the game, anthems you don’t want to listen to, football so poor that the talking points aren’t even football any more. And you pay a fortune to watch that.
A fortune to watch fake football.
And when the football is as fake as this you might as well just offer a fake handshake. If you don’t you’ll only get fake outrage.
Fake outrage like that from Patrick Barclay. Supposedly a respected writer, days after using Heysel as a stick to beat some prat on Twitter with, insulting and offending countless others in the process, he uses the word “immoral” to describe Kenny Dalglish’s answers to questions about a player not offering a fake handshake. A fake handshake Dalglish said he thought had been offered.
In what kind of world is someone like Patrick Barclay, with his thinly disguised views of Heysel and Hillsborough itching to come out with every spiteful word he says, tweets or writes, respected? And it’s not just Barclay, a man trying to make some money in the last days of his career. It’s a wide range of so-called respected writers who are stirring up trouble so fast that they can’t see their own hypocrisy through the dust they’ve sent flying. Respected writers patting each other on the back, a big circle of hypocrites who can’t praise each other enough for the fakery they’ve worked so hard to make fact. Respected writers?
It’s that word again. Respect. In football it has a completely different meaning to anywhere else.
Respect in football is fake.
Rafa Benítez put it best.
Football is a lie.

[Thommo's perm]

to me it looks like the owners have become involved and told everyone at the club to draw a line under the whole issue right now. looks like suarez has fallen on his sword for the good of the club to me.

A false apology is as good as a false handshake, probably better
Lets put it away and fu'ck them next time we play them
Wise up KK, for fu'cks sake

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

to me it looks like the owners have become involved and told everyone at the club to draw a line under the whole issue right now. looks like suarez has fallen on his sword for the good of the club to me.

A false apology is as good as a false handshake, probably better
Lets put it away and fu'ck them next time we play them
Wise up KK, for fu'cks sake

not dalglish mate, even if he wanted to apologize if i was running the club i`d say to him no, sorry kenny i cant let you do it.
that man who has had to deal with more than any manager in the history of the game has to apologize to a sky tv interviewer and manchester unted over a f##king handshake.
dissappointed with the club.

[supersub]

Fake Plastic Respect
February 12, 2012 by Jim Boardman | 0 comments
THE DAY Luis Suárez was charged by the FA for the incident with Patrice Evra the media had fallen over each other in a race to condemn Sepp Blatter for a comment he made about handshakes. What he’d said seemed to be along the lines of endorsing racism on a football pitch during a game – as long as the players involved shake hands afterwards.
It was a stupid thing to say and one that he’ll never live down, but if football was the kind of game the authorities want it to be – and that includes the English FA – the comment wouldn’t be completely without merit. But football isn’t a nice pleasant game played by people full of ‘respect’ for each other. It’s a regularly depressing game watched, played, run and reported on by far too large a proportion of selfish individuals. Respect in football is as fake as the outrage from the hacks who change their principles every time there’s a new line to go for to earn their crust.

Liverpool fans find it difficult to look at Alex Ferguson and see any good in him. Maybe there is some good in him – after all most Liverpool fans would have thought the same of Gary Neville but many now find themselves agreeing with a painfully high amount of his punditry – but it’s hard to see it.
It’s hard to imagine Manchester United fans would think any differently about Kenny Dalglish, certainly if the Man U opinion formers are anything to go by.
This applied long before Suárez and Evra had their disputed conversation and it will probably go on long after both players have hung up their boots or taken them elsewhere.
With that in mind it goes without saying that the two managers will think much the same of each other. Ferguson’s hatred of Dalglish goes back a long way and whilst many of Kenny detractors were laughing at his return in place of their beloved Roy Hodgson it’s unlikely there was much laughter from the more elderly Glaswegian.
Whatever really went on between Evra and Suárez, there still isn’t enough evidence to be completely certain. That’s something that’s been discussed at length by numerous people – and of course ignored by those who don’t like to sully their agenda with truth or questions about what the truth might be.
Sadly for football, and the fight against racism, the case has done nothing to make it easier to work out the truth of any future incident along those lines that takes place.
The FA’s independent panel seem to think there’s a good chance of it happening again – this is an extract from their lengthy report on the Suárez-Evra incident:
“We took into account the fact that it is a real albeit unattractive trait of human nature that we all act from time to time, to greater or lesser degrees, in ways which may be out of character. This is especially so when we feel under pressure, or challenged, or provoked, or pushed into a corner. We do and say things that we are not proud of and regret, and that we might try and deny, sometimes even to ourselves. We occasionally things that we would be embarrassed to admit to family or friends. It is not inconsistent to have black colleagues and friends and relatives, and yet say things to strangers or acquaintances about race or colour that we would not say directly to those closer to us.”
Quite an admission from the panel (imagine if Blatter had said that stuff in the last sentence) but the general point is fairly obvious. People do things they shouldn’t do, and wouldn’t normally do, in the heat of the moment if feeling under pressure.
And this is where the handshake comes in, or where it would come in if football was the kind of game the authorities like to pretend it is. If two players, on opposing sides, are angry with each other for some reason, the two managers, from the two opposing sides, should be able to sort it out. That ‘sorting out’ might still lead to action from The FA, it might lead to one or both clubs disciplining their own players, but if football’s the kind of respect-filled game the authorities want us to believe it is then that handshake idea works perfectly every time.
Even if the managers are at loggerheads there’s still – in this idyllic version of the game – plenty of respect between the officials higher up at both clubs. A director of football at one club can chat to a director at the other club. They get the handshakes started, the dialogue underway, the problems ironed out at least to a point where punishment is for something that happened, not an extreme playground argument version of what happened.
Football isn’t that kind of idyllic game though, not in its current guise, certainly not in England under the ‘control’ of The FA with a greedy Premier League atop the league structure, fair to itself but dismissive of the league that feeds into it.
The Premier League isn’t even fair to the punter. The price of tickets is astronomical, as is the cost of the tacky shirts the clubs throw out three versions of each season. The FA doesn’t care, it has its own tacky shirts to sell and as long as it gets the use of those players whose wages make those tickets so expensive why would they care? There’s always the option of watching on the TV – but even that’s out of reach of more and more people as the sport leaves its past behind and heads for a place that the people who made the game what it is would never recognise.
Handshakes used to be something that happened before cup finals and internationals. The players would line up, some dignitary would shake their hands, then the tracky tops would be ditched and some football would be played. Nowadays it costs so much to go to a bog-standard league game that maybe the powers-that-be feel they need to try and pretend it’s as good as a cup final. Handshakes you can hardly see anyway when you’re at the game, anthems you don’t want to listen to, football so poor that the talking points aren’t even football any more. And you pay a fortune to watch that.
A fortune to watch fake football.
And when the football is as fake as this you might as well just offer a fake handshake. If you don’t you’ll only get fake outrage.
Fake outrage like that from Patrick Barclay. Supposedly a respected writer, days after using Heysel as a stick to beat some prat on Twitter with, insulting and offending countless others in the process, he uses the word “immoral” to describe Kenny Dalglish’s answers to questions about a player not offering a fake handshake. A fake handshake Dalglish said he thought had been offered.
In what kind of world is someone like Patrick Barclay, with his thinly disguised views of Heysel and Hillsborough itching to come out with every spiteful word he says, tweets or writes, respected? And it’s not just Barclay, a man trying to make some money in the last days of his career. It’s a wide range of so-called respected writers who are stirring up trouble so fast that they can’t see their own hypocrisy through the dust they’ve sent flying. Respected writers patting each other on the back, a big circle of hypocrites who can’t praise each other enough for the fakery they’ve worked so hard to make fact. Respected writers?
It’s that word again. Respect. In football it has a completely different meaning to anywhere else.
Respect in football is fake.
Rafa Benítez put it best.
Football is a lie.

Brilliant piece.

[eds]

to me it looks like the owners have become involved and told everyone at the club to draw a line under the whole issue right now. looks like suarez has fallen on his sword for the good of the club to me.

A false apology is as good as a false handshake, probably better
Lets put it away and fu'ck them next time we play them
Wise up KK, for fu'cks sake

not dalglish mate, even if he wanted to apologize if i was running the club i`d say to him no, sorry kenny i cant let you do it.
that man who has had to deal with more than any manager in the history of the game has to apologize to a sky tv interviewer and manchester unted over a f##king handshake.
dissappointed with the club.

So we have had to apologise but the Mancs get away with murder........AGAIN. Where is their apology in all of this?

FFS its clear as day the owners have barked instructions to Kenny and Luis.

What a mess they have created. What a mess this club is right now.

   

[Paul C]

I think the problem at LFC is the lack of PR, in this whole circus act you didn't hear Ferguson come out and comment about it at all but Kenny had to do all the talking, he shouldn't been involved at all and the club should have been doing all that side but it wasn't so.

The Anfield Wrap podcast made a good point of all this about 3 episodes ago.

It should have been handed within the club like LFC business always had, it's been a joke and very sad how all this has gone because now our rep has been tarnished

[Zidane]

I don't think this will matter if we go on to become successful like we once were, or just even a consistent CL team as we were under Rafa.  Fact is fans around the world only care about teams that are winning.  They could care less about the drama behind clubs and what not.  Barca are full of drama and so are Man U but they have been the two most successful clubs in the world for a while now so no one cares about that stuff.  They just care about how the team plays.  I don't worry about our reputation being tarnished to the outside world, what I do worry about is our own looking at LFC differently because of these events.  Our reputation has always been shaky, never the best in England (which is where it matters) so it's nothing new to be honest.  Even when we won the CL we were being talked about like a club pushing above its weight that we'd fall back down to reality etc etc.  We never get good press, get used to it.  We can't control that but what we can control is how we as supporters go about supporting our club.  It's what got us through Hillsborough for so long, Heysel, H&G etc etc.  The worldwide fan base are fickle as can be, all we need to do is put out a team capable of challenging on all fronts and the supporters worldwide will come back.

[red till i die!!]

Do you really think Ferguson will apologize for his comments? never

I'm sorry but I'm very dissapointed in all this

in what way MH?

I'm dissapointed in the club, seriously, I understand they want to keep their global image intact but why the hell would they change their stance from the first moment they sent out a fierce statmement condemning the FA, and then our GM who kept quite the whole time comes out now and sends out a statement like that.

Very very dissapointed, if you believe in a cause and believe its your right to fight for it then you stick with it, you don't change your mind to appease people, load of BS

Did the club not need to do 'something' though?

How will we attract new star players with all this still hanging over us and I for one dread every game with all the booing and chants going on - that has to affect the players.

They should have appealed after this!!

Liverpool Football Club is very surprised and disappointed with the decision of the Football Association Commission to find Luis Suarez guilty of the charges against him.


We look forward to the publication of the Commission's Judgment.  We will study the detailed reasons of the Commission once they become available, but reserve our right to appeal or take any other course of action we feel appropriate with regards to this situation.

We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play - including Evra's own Manchester United teammates and all the match officials - heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.

The Club takes extremely seriously the fight against all forms of discrimination and has a long and successful track record in work relating to anti-racist activity and social inclusion.  We remain committed to this ideal and equality for all, irrespective of a person's background.

LFC considers racism in any form to be unacceptable - without compromise.  It is our strong held belief, having gone over the facts of the case, that Luis Suarez did not commit any racist act.  It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.

It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said 'I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist'.  The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.

Luis himself is of a mixed race family background as his grandfather was black.  He has been personally involved since the 2010 World Cup in a charitable project which uses sport to encourage solidarity amongst people of different backgrounds with the central theme that the colour of a person's skin does not matter; they can all play together as a team.

He has played with black players and mixed with their families whilst with the Uruguay national side and was Captain at Ajax Amsterdam of a team with a proud multi-cultural profile, many of whom became good friends.

It seems incredible to us that a player of mixed heritage should be accused and found guilty in the way he has based on the evidence presented. We do not recognise the way in which Luis Suarez has been characterised.

It appears to us that the FA were determined to bring charges against Luis Suarez, even before interviewing him at the beginning of November. Nothing we have heard in the course of the hearing has changed our view that Luis Suarez is innocent of the charges brought against him and we will provide Luis with whatever support he now needs to clear his name.

We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms.  Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult.

that is exactly what i was told by a manure fan earlier.if he was innocent then why didnt we appeal.
i said because of the negative media attention we were getting at the time.
he told me that if the shoe was on the other foot no way would fergie accept any ban and would fight tooth and nail to get it overturned and the fact that we accepted it obviously meant that suarez was guilty.

this is where the club fooked up and we should have taken a leaf out of whiskey nose's book.

[metalhead]

Do you really think Ferguson will apologize for his comments? never

I'm sorry but I'm very dissapointed in all this

in what way MH?

I'm dissapointed in the club, seriously, I understand they want to keep their global image intact but why the hell would they change their stance from the first moment they sent out a fierce statmement condemning the FA, and then our GM who kept quite the whole time comes out now and sends out a statement like that.

Very very dissapointed, if you believe in a cause and believe its your right to fight for it then you stick with it, you don't change your mind to appease people, load of BS

MH, I agree with you on a lot of football opinions, but not this.

You know why has our reputation been tarnished?

Because in our frenzy of supporting our player, we overlooked what the most important issue is - eradication of racism. In our unquestioning support of Suarez, we told the world what we care most about - supporting our player (regardless of what he may have done).

Suarez is a very talented player, but he's not above LFC, and neither is he perfect. He clearly has temperamental issues. We should have acted maturely and not made this an issue of "my player" vs. "your player". We needed to tell everyone and show everyone then that we considered racist verbiage abhorrent and if possible apologized. We should have said that we would be extremely disappointed with Suarez in case he said something like that. I'm not asking for us to have pronounced Suarez guilty before trial, but we should have been reserved in our support and have had a tone of "I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings, we never would intend to". We should have tried to initiate a reconciliatory dialogue between Evra and Suarez, but we brashly refused to.

We showed the world, in some sense, that we could care less about what really matters in real life. And we are getting what we asked for. It's time to take the humble pie and try and apologize and improve our image finally. Good move by KD, Suarez, and the club.

Do you see my point?

We tarnished the image of the club from the first day we sent out a statement of defense, only to change our stance a few days later! Its a farce! Why send out a statement that clearly shows that we are likely to appeal, that it made most LFC fans expect an appeal from the club. As fans we will feel bitter because of this. As Dalglish said in his post, the Manc's PR wiped the floor out of ours because they clearly knew what they were doing and we did not! IF the club from the start came out with a statement of apology saying that they accept the charge, that it was all a misunderstanding of culture, etc... NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED! We shot our selves in the foot, and clearly most LFC fans are feeling dissapointed towards FSG/NESV for not sticking to their original statement. I for one feel dissapointed by the owners for explaining things properly to the fans, they didn't come out with any statement after the fiasco explaining why they had chosen this path!

[laza]

I will move on, but not until Ferguson apologizes for his comments

You have to move on MH mate

Havent you been listening to the media, people on the radio, on forums  and even some of own fans here.

Our market share is at threat, our corporate image may have taken a 5 percent downturn in overseas fanbase, its been a PR disaster

Our Corporation overlords dont pay large amounts of absurd money to our modern day gladitors, to keep the masses entertained in their ho hum lives while their profits margins grow bigger.
It doesnt matter if off the field some these young men are obnoxious bullies, women beating, rapists, thugs, drug cheats because they are role models to our youth.

It doesnt matter if these players who trot out all their cliches about respecting their opponents, the ref and other clubs are lying through their back teeth

As long as its look good on camera that's all that matters



Image is everthing...................apparently

[Octsky]

from this episode i learn that winners talk. end of story, if we won old fergie wont
focus on the handshake incident, he be complaining abt the officials and how his team was
the better team and still lost.

we nd to leave our talking on the pitch and that it.
fergie said that Suarez was a disgrace for not shaking hands but awarded giggs with an extension contract for "doing" his sis-in-law.
"Suarez was a disgrace!" blasted ferdinand, a convicted drug user.
we nd to silence the critics with good results and hope this episode can spurs the team on.

[BKrimmel]

Evra shouldn't be ashamed for reporting what he felt Luis said to him. Racism has no place in society nor in football.

When Luis refused to shake Evra's hand, I don't think he was thinking about racism. I don't think he was thinking at all. It was an incredibly stupid move. It embarrassed me. It embarrassed me so much that I am now sure I will never again wear my Luis Suarez Kit.

Luis apology seemed appropriate, but it will not fix the problem. Luis has severely damaged his reputation and brought shame to this club and this sport.

I will always remain loyal to my club, but I am not sure if I can remain loyal to Luis. He has a lot of work to do to get me again to sing his name. And that work has nothing to do with scoring goals or winning matches.

[Greavesie]

Evra shouldn't be ashamed for reporting what he felt Luis said to him. Racism has no place in society nor in football.

When Luis refused to shake Evra's hand, I don't think he was thinking about racism. I don't think he was thinking at all. It was an incredibly stupid move. It embarrassed me. It embarrassed me so much that I am now sure I will never again wear my Luis Suarez Kit.

Luis apology seemed appropriate, but it will not fix the problem. Luis has severely damaged his reputation and brought shame to this club and this sport.

I will always remain loyal to my club, but I am not sure if I can remain loyal to Luis. He has a lot of work to do to get me again to sing his name. And that work has nothing to do with scoring goals or winning matches.

if Luis did refuse to shake Evra's hand its pretty obvious why, it doesnt need explaining. Its a plastic act anyway, too much emphasis has been put on this handshake, wtf does it prove anyway? Everyone still wastes time, dives around and waves imaginary cards anyway.

Suarez doesn't hate Evra because he's black, he hates him because he's a kunt.

Hope this helps