Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

so if hes gona play 442 with kuyt on left left who is playing in the centre??? gerrard and masch with alonso on the bench... why is he trying to buy barry then? and if he plays gerrard on the right in a 442 hes not using him to his potential.

4231 doesnt mean the wide players in the thre stick wide right its all interchangeable thats the point to create fredom of movement across the back four.

Kuyt   -   Gerrard   -   Mash   -   Babel

                     Keane
                           Torres
i get what you are saying but i really dont think that Keane has what it takes to play the role u seem to be giving him.. i know that Rafa might have mentioned it when Keane signed but the role that you are indicating is basically a right winger cutting inside and joining the forwards when we have posession. This is what Kuyt does or did for us end of last season. Given a choice of Keane or Kuyt in that position, believe it or not I would pick Kuyt week in week out.

My major problem with our signings this season is not the potential signing of Barry believe it or not. its basically Keane signing for 20.3 mill when we had seemed to have his position finally sorted out last season. If we wanted someone as an understudy for Torres, someone to come in when we need to rest torres or when Torres is injured...etc, we should have gone for a cheaper option. If we wanted someone to play the Gerrard role of the end of last season, there were a milllion other options out there who would have done a better job (Aimar springs to mind)!
Signing Keane to me basically meant a switch back to 4-4-2..
Keane and Torres upfront, end of.
Many hav sugested that keane was brought to play on the right or left side... one question.. if you were the manager and had 20 mill or so to spend on a right or left winger, would you buy Keane ?!

[Ben1988]

no your right i wouldnt.... but it comes down to how you see the role of the wide men in that 4231 formation. I see it as a deep striker who links up with midfield and plays on the right or left hand side, he isnt a touchline player that beats people and whips in crosses, and thats what i feel the job of a winger is in 442, uless your arsenal and you pass through team with ease, but i never see us play this type of football. I agree, i like kuyt, I think he played realy well at the end of last season, he make so much space and time for gerrard and torres to do there stuff. But i cant see him fitting in well in a 442 on the right hand side.... i hope im proved wrong.

But once again why would rafa spend 18million on a DFM and play him wide left? If he buys him and plays him wide left its a bad buy because thers better wingers out ther and i think bable would dp a better job anyway. also.... if hes wanting to spend 18million on a central midfielder when we have 5 he must be thinking of different formations becuase its obviously down the flanks where we wud struggle in a 442. gerrard would end up on the right because kuyt wouldnt be able to cope playing as a classic winger in a 442... then we loose the best of steven Gerrard which isnt what we want. Having said all this Bable may not cut it again this year... he played well in short bursts last year we need him to be consistent. Obviously Rafa knows different hence why were not buying any wide players. I hope hes right.... but it worries me!

[aCe']

our transfers (targets as well as buys so far) this summer are a big question mark for me so cant really say i understand where Rafa is going with the squad formation-wise...
hope it all works out regardless of whom it is we sign or dont.

[tonyeh]

This is my first post here, I've been knocking around this board all last season but never posted.

Anyway, I think the starting formation that makes the most sense to me has to be 4-4-2.

                Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

  Kuyt Gerrard Masherano Babel

           Torres Keane

Paying 20+ mil for Keane and sticking him on the wing would be an extremely bad move IMHO. He has to play up front and at least take some of the heat/pressure off of Torres. I also think Torrres is going to be kicked around the pitch this year.    and anyway, 1 striker up front is no use long term, even if it is Torres.

Although I don't really rate Kuyt, I think he's worked hard enough in a mid field position last year to warrant a go this year, but I think he really has to up his game. I'd like to see Babel keep the ball more too this season, but I think he has something to offer.

The back four will be strong enough and there's a few faces to try out out, but I hope Carra has a better season this year.

All in all, it's a stronger team that the last couple of years and I'm pretty positive, but as for winning the title......hmmmm.


Tony

[Owzat]

That formation would include three players who didn't start, and 75% of the midfield changed. That could make a difference, I certainly hope Rafa isn't seriously expecting Arbeloa and Dossena to create like wingers. I might almost be tempted to play the same formation as towards the end of last season but with Keane in place of Kuyt or Babel, play it more like three strikers with Keane and Babel/Kuyt playing wider to supply crosses to the other two and Gerrard marauding forward

[66-1112520797]

today was 4-2-3-1 for the first 70 minuts. THen there were too many kids on and the game was kind of wide open and it was hard to tell, but it was VERY loose. At one point Kuyt and Torres switched roles.  But when Stevie G was out there this is what we ran today:
                          Gerrard              Alonso
    Kuyt                            Yossi                              Keane
                                  Torres

You saw the game and the formation very different than I did Joe.

I saw it as :-

                       Gerrard      Alonso

    Kuyt                                              Benayoun
                      Torres          Keane   

I thought Keane played through the middle, while Benayoun did what he usually does and drifts, especially when he plays on the left.

Whats all this talk of formation ?

[stmichael]

in a 4-4-2 pennant should be playing right hand side. he's the only natural winger we've got.

[OneHotRed]

in a 4-4-2 pennant should be playing right hand side. he's the only natural winger we've got.

Agreed, we arent a club that can do 4-4-2 at the moment in my eyes, we need to stick to the 4231 - as proved in standard last night lol.

[account deleted by request]

today was 4-2-3-1 for the first 70 minuts. THen there were too many kids on and the game was kind of wide open and it was hard to tell, but it was VERY loose. At one point Kuyt and Torres switched roles.  But when Stevie G was out there this is what we ran today:
                          Gerrard              Alonso
    Kuyt                            Yossi                              Keane
                                  Torres

You saw the game and the formation very different than I did Joe.

I saw it as :-

                       Gerrard      Alonso

    Kuyt                                              Benayoun
                      Torres          Keane   

I thought Keane played through the middle, while Benayoun did what he usually does and drifts, especially when he plays on the left.

Whats all this talk of formation ?

Dunno mate, to me its more about how and what role the players play than formations at the moment.

I think Keane will play up alongside Torres rather than as a creative second striker, especially once Babel returns, still not sure what role Gerrard will take though. Either alongside Masch or on the right?although I have always had a soft spot for a creative player playing just behind 2 strikers , but I doubt Rafa would play it.

               Reina
Arbeloa   Carra   Agger  Dossena

    Masch     Alonso    Lucas

             Gerrard

         Torres    Keane

With the fullbacks providing the width, you have 3 players creating and scoring freely. I suppose this formation would be a 4-3-1-2 or maybe a 4-3-3?

But it doesn't really matter which its called does it ?

[66-1112520797]

I certainly thought there was a lot of interchanging going on , Torres ran the channels for a while when Kuyt moved inside, but I think its early days to be deciding on a formation. A lot will depend on if we get Barry or not, and the return of Masch. I think we will probably stick with 4-4-2 until then.

The big problem for me is where Gerrard will fit in once Masch is back. I am not keen on him taking Kuyts role, and if as looks likely Keane and Torres are going to be an attacking pair, I can't see him playing behind the front two.

Maybe centre mid with Masch, but that then means Barry on the left, and no room for Alonso?

Whats all this talk of formation mate ?

In the "formation" thread 

[109-1218458338]

one point I'd like to thrown into the melting pot is this:

yes we have lots of different things we could do in the last third but what about the defensive line? Why are we defending so deep all the time, we are making the gap between midfield and the forwards so big that sides are easily able to mark us out of it.

personally i feel that no matter who we line out up front unless we sort out this defensive mentality and defend much higher we are going to keep seeing these draws.

especially with two defensive midfielder screening!

[Scottbot]

Having all our players available and taking into account our weak spots this is my best 11 + formation for this current Liverpool squad.



                            Reina


Finnan          Carragher        Skrtel          Agger


                 Alonso             Mascherano


  Gerrard                 Keane                   Babel


                             Torres


I know it won't happen but that (for me) is our best 11. We are too weak (plus too over-populated in the middle) to play anyone other than Gerrard on the right (plus Keane is wasted and won't work on the right). I'm far from convinced by Dossena on the left and playing Agger out there is a far better idea than playing Carra at RB. Carra is best in the middle where his leadership/organisational skills come to the fore and Agger gives better options going forward. Finnan (even if he has lost a step) is a better option than Arbeloa (who has always looked better at Left Back) and i'd also selct Aurelio over any of our other LB options. Before the 'Stevie has to play central no matter what!' brigade go crazy, I think that Keane/Gerrard/Babel are intelligent enough to interchange as a game progresses.

Again, I don't think it will happen but that's our 11 best players on the field in that formation.

Feel free to stick yours up but I don't think there is a better line-up......

[Bad Bob]

Having all our players available and taking into account our weak spots this is my best 11 + formation for this current Liverpool squad.



                            Reina


Finnan          Carragher        Skrtel          Agger


                 Alonso             Mascherano


  Gerrard                 Keane                   Babel


                             Torres


I know it won't happen but that (for me) is our best 11. We are too weak (plus too over-populated in the middle) to play anyone other than Gerrard on the right (plus Keane is wasted and won't work on the right). I'm far from convinced by Dossena on the left and playing Agger out there is a far better idea than playing Carra at RB. Carra is best in the middle where his leadership/organisational skills come to the fore and Agger gives better options going forward. Finnan (even if he has lost a step) is a better option than Arbeloa (who has always looked better at Left Back) and i'd also selct Aurelio over any of our other LB options. Before the 'Stevie has to play central no matter what!' brigade go crazy, I think that Keane/Gerrard/Babel are intelligent enough to interchange as a game progresses.

Again, I don't think it will happen but that's our 11 best players on the field in that formation.

Feel free to stick yours up but I don't think there is a better line-up......

I like everything you've suggested Scott, except playing Agger at LB.  It just strikes me as another square peg for a round hole.  I'd much prefer having Aurelio in there but, if he's not fit (again!), I'd stick with Dossena.   Sure, he's not had the most assured of starts in a red shirt but there's every chance he could adapt if given the games.  Hell, we played Riise there consistently for years and his defensive liabilities were sussed out long ago.  Yet, we still managed to be one of the stingiest defenses in the league.  Give the new fella a chance to bed in, learn the ropes etc. and then we can see how we fare.  It's far to soon to panic and stick Agger over there, IMO.



BTW, that means I'd move Agger back over to partner Carra and drop Skrtel to the bench.

[Scottbot]

I like everything you've suggested Scott, except playing Agger at LB.  It just strikes me as another square peg for a round hole.

I know it's hardly ideal and I very much doubt it will happen. If it does it will mean that we have suffered injuries OR Dossena is a complete flop. I know it's early but I am very concerned about Dossena and I'm usually very patient before jumping to conclusions on players. He doesn't look very fluid to me, he got caught square on a few times the other night and I think he will struggle in one on ones. Agger is very comfortable on the ball, is a good passer, can run with the ball and is a very clean tackler. A far better option than playing Carra out at RB (which Benitez will do many times this season) in my book. Do you not think Carra is a squarer (is that a word!!?) peg than Agger at Full-Back?

[JC_81]

I like everything you've suggested Scott, except playing Agger at LB.  It just strikes me as another square peg for a round hole.

I know it's hardly ideal and I very much doubt it will happen. If it does it will mean that we have suffered injuries OR Dossena is a complete flop. I know it's early but I am very concerned about Dossena and I'm usually very patient before jumping to conclusions on players. He doesn't look very fluid to me, he got caught square on a few times the other night and I think he will struggle in one on ones. Agger is very comfortable on the ball, is a good passer, can run with the ball and is a very clean tackler. A far better option than playing Carra out at RB (which Benitez will do many times this season) in my book. Do you not think Carra is a squarer (is that a word!!?) peg than Agger at Full-Back?

Dossena got a bit of a roasting against Liege the other night alright.  But to me he doesn't look fit, in fact in his first couple of pre-season games he looked to be overweight, but it looks to me like he has lost weight since then.  I'm reserving judgement until I see him fully fit.

He looks like he's up for the fight and seems comfortable with the ball at his feet.  I've seen nothing yet to suggest he's better than what we have.  Early days though.