Liverpool FC Forum

[LegBarnes]

Mick, be patient, it's not strange, Rome wasn't constructed in one day, and the change of football discussion won't be achieved in one day.

But the very existence of this thread is a good sign :-) you see, the bottle half full always.


Myself I've read it and I have a post pending to make.

I'll touch two points, one, to agree RBG to defend Agger's quality.

Two, to comment on the notion that we should look for a specific CB strong in the air. Perhaps it's one of the alien factors of the continental coaches in England. Many continental coaches might see aerial power as a desirable bonus, but it wouldn't be the first characteristic to sign a player. They'd combat aerial threat from the very source, with a good pressing, and not allowing the players that can put this good balls actually putting them.

Plus, even if we wanted to find Hyypia-esque CB. Please, anyone, where can we find one. That kind of quality, proffessionality, and experience, added to a mastering of a aerial game is very rare. I don't know of any, in fact.

Another quick question, what has happend to Agger?

Asked the same thing the other day. I don't know.

Given Masherano and Alonso sit in, teams will look to launch it a bit more against us I guess, so given that isn't it evem more crucial that we have somebody aerially dominant?

I disagree. I'd agree you if Liverpool weren't aggressive in the recovery of the ball, which is not clearly the case. One of the reasons that made Real Madrid look inactive is the good job we do recovering the ball and doing a good pressing where it has to be done.

I have to disagree 1 CB has to have main skill in AIR in prem its a must as only in this league you deal with 50% air 50% on floor others leagues might be closer to 70% floor 30% air and the air part in most other leagues is from crosses and free kicks prem you see target men used alot more with long high balls up to them.

Now i am not saying agger nore skrtel can't become good in air I just don't see it atm and I really feel we can't offord another season being weak in this area because some might argue its been a weakness that might have cost us the league this season.

I do think there is many clubs out there that prob have a good heading CB that need a agger type player so maybe a swap deal isn't out of the question.

But I also feel we do need a RW and striker as well so getting the ballance to our team who ever is managing next season will be the key to sucess.

Of course on other hand we might get bought out soon and then I feel we gonna have our best chance for long time to win prem we can only hope.

As for replacing big sami you ca't simple as but you can find someone like him and what better time sami is in his peak of exp and can pass that onto any new sami type player.

[Effes]

I think it's a case of beggars cant be choosers this or necx season LB.

We might have to choose carefully, who we buy and sell.

For me, its a RM and striker.

[DanAn]

We need an aerially dominate player for attacking corners more so than defensive corners.  Hangelands about the best there is that would be available.

[Effes]

Ive not posted on here yet.

All Im saying is, the defending against Everton's free-kick in the League game was woeful.

It's not new players needed, it's coaching that can sort that out.

[heimdall]

I'm a  bit confused, I love Hyppia to bits and he was, and to a certain extent still is, an incredible CB but to say that no one compares to him is a bit strange. Just off the top of my head I would say Terry, Vidic and Ferdinand although Terry is having a slightly off season this year.

[loopyliverpool]

Hyppia's past it.. too slow. I don't agree with Rafa on many things but I do feel the centre back pairing of Carra and Skertel is the best. For me Skertel is top top quality and Carra has been one of the best in the business for ages. If I were to change it though it would be to play the great man at right back cos I am no fan of Arbeloa and play Agger alongside Skertel but that aint gonna happen so I would say Rafa has this right.

[stmichael]

The main problem this season is we haven't had a regular back four, let alone a regular centre back pairing. Skrtel and Carragher were forming a good partnership but then the latter got injured of course. Carragher has been playing right back for part of the season and we've had three different left backs.

Agger looks like he might leave in the summer which would be disastrous imo. He allows us to defend so much higher up the pitch.

[GRAHAM01]

if we had sami in his prime now! i would say we don't need 2 holding midfield players ( like we seem to play now ) and that would free up a role for the middle of the park, someone more attacking and it would also leave gerrard a free roaming role which can only be a good thing

as we don't have sami in his prime now ( still very good mind you ) we could look for someone who could play that roll ( like your Terry, Vidic and Ferdinand ) who that would be i'm unsure or even if rafa would want to play that way as we know he is defence minded

[Bad Bob]

When fit, I still prefer Agger to pair Carra.  I see Skrtel as an able understudy to Carra who will eventually is into his role but I don't think the Skrtel-Carra partnership is our best pairing at the back.  For me, Agger offers a lot going forward and he's more solid defensively than sometimes given credit for.  By that I mean that people always focus on his composure on the ball and how he can cause problems for opponents when he steps out from the back but, when fit and in form (which we haven't see in some time, to be fair), he won't let you down at the back.  With Skrtel there's just too much of the kamikaze sometimes.  People have mentioned his ball-watching but his penchant for picking up silly bookings also frustrates me.  More often than not, it's for going through the back of their striker when contesting a high ball well away from our goal.  Sami's got to teach him the art of reading the flight of the ball and knowing when to contest vs. when to back off.

[JC_81]

He allows us to defend so much higher up the pitch.

How do you work that one out mate?

I don't think we ever defend that high up the pitch no matter who's playing at the back for us.  And I don't think Agger is particularly good at defending that way.  On the odd occasion where the line has been high, Agger looks vulnerable to me, he's not quick.  The CL qualifier against Standard Liege springs to kind (although I accept he was just coming back from injury).  Drogba stripping him for pace in a CL semi a few seasons back is another one that springs to mind.

For me Skrtel is the quickest of the centre backs we have, so if we were to defend high up the pitch he'd have to play.  The thing is though, the way we play with the two holding players we never do defend this way unless we're chasing a game.

[JC_81]

With Skrtel there's just too much of the kamikaze sometimes.  People have mentioned his ball-watching but his penchant for picking up silly bookings also frustrates me.  More often than not, it's for going through the back of their striker when contesting a high ball well away from our goal.

Interesting that Bob.  I'd like to see the stats comparing how many free kicks Skrtel gives away per game compared with Agger.  Skrtel has the reputation for being some kind of maniac (which is a bit unfounded since I don't think he's ever even been sent off), but for me it's Agger who gives away more of the silly fouls coming through the back of people.  I'll try and look into the stats of that later.

[GRAHAM01]

When fit, I still prefer Agger to pair Carra.  I see Skrtel as an able understudy to Carra who will eventually is into his role but I don't think the Skrtel-Carra partnership is our best pairing at the back.  For me, Agger offers a lot going forward and he's more solid defensively than sometimes given credit for.  By that I mean that people always focus on his composure on the ball and how he can cause problems for opponents when he steps out from the back but, when fit and in form (which we haven't see in some time, to be fair), he won't let you down at the back.  With Skrtel there's just too much of the kamikaze sometimes.  People have mentioned his ball-watching but his penchant for picking up silly bookings also frustrates me.  More often than not, it's for going through the back of their striker when contesting a high ball well away from our goal.  Sami's got to teach him the art of reading the flight of the ball and knowing when to contest vs. when to back off.

i can see your thinking of having agger and skittle at CB but that does mean leaving out carra and to be honest i think he has some time left in him yet mate so what do we do in the mean time as playing carra and skittle and leaving agger out will only push agger in to thinking more about leaving so that he gets to play more

it's a hard thing to balance and keep everyone happy

[stmichael]

He allows us to defend so much higher up the pitch.

How do you work that one out mate?

I don't think we ever defend that high up the pitch no matter who's playing at the back for us.  And I don't think Agger is particularly good at defending that way.  On the odd occasion where the line has been high, Agger looks vulnerable to me, he's not quick.  The CL qualifier against Standard Liege springs to kind (although I accept he was just coming back from injury).  Drogba stripping him for pace in a CL semi a few seasons back is another one that springs to mind.

For me Skrtel is the quickest of the centre backs we have, so if we were to defend high up the pitch he'd have to play.  The thing is though, the way we play with the two holding players we never do defend this way unless we're chasing a game.

I was talking primarily John about games at home against teams we would be expected to beat.

For me, playing Carra and Skrtel is not needed at Anfield against most teams for example. Agger has to play against the 5 men midfield if we want to compete for titles because he is so good with the ball and we're not going to be under the cosh and needing Skrtel's tackles as much.

I always think we need to dominate possession more, giving the opposition possession and then saying "get past Carra and Skrtel then" is dangerous because I think it will mean too many draws, we have to take a chance and need ball playing defenders who not only get forward but get in the box and are proven and effective in doing so. Agger does that.

[JC_81]

All Im saying is, the defending against Everton's free-kick in the League game was woeful.

That was an individual error by Riera mate.  Got caught sleeping and allowed the ball to get by him and onto Cahill's head.

It's the problem with the zonal marking system that occasionally a player will get caught napping and leave responsibility to someone else to attack the ball when it should be him.  When this happens it looks like absolute schoolboy defending.  I don't think we're as vulnerable from set plays as some people make out though.

[redbeergoggles]

What people seem to forget about Agger is the space he makes for himself ,which has the added bonus of breaking up a stubborn midfield, plus his ability to bring strikers into play with genuine vision.
Im with Molby on this Agger is the future, and as for being slow ,looks can be decieving Class shows at any pace ..