Liverpool FC Forum

[Judge]

the stats show that has only happened once

[JC_81]

Thank christ - a football discussion thread!  Nice one metalhead.

Clearly there is a weakness at centre back, mainly aerially.  We have never replaced Hyypia.  Carra, Agger and Skrtel are all good players, but none are top class (Carra of a few years back was but as I have gone into in another thread I think his powers are on the slide).  None of them complement each other like Hyypia and Carra did a few years back.  It is a weakness that is less apparent when we play two holding midfielders, but it is a weakness nonetheless.

The best pairing imo is Carra and Skrtel.  Agger is a better player than Skrtel, but Carra is still the best of the 3 and I believe he is best when partnered by Skrtel because at least Skrtel tries to go and attack the ball in the air (although is not in Sami's class at doing so).

In an ideal world we need a top class CB brought in.  Hangeland I'm not sure of.  He's certainly in the right mould, ie aerially dominant CB, but he looks a bit slow, a bit rash in the tackle and generally a bit vulnerable when the ball is played around him on the deck.  A poor man's Hyypia imo.  We need better.

Bottom line is though we have areas that need strengthened ahead of CB.  Striker, right mid and possibly even full backs and left mid are more important imo.  With even a top striker and top right winger I believe we could win major trophies even with our current centre backs.

[Big Niall]

Top teams need a centre back that can build up play like Hansen used to and Rio Ferdinand does. Agger is the best we have at that and should be our number 1 centre back. I'd go for skrtl to parter him as Carra looks terrified when he has the ball and tends to hoof it (but that might be what Rafa wants his defenders to do).

I wouldn't put a new centre back high on our priority list.

[JC_81]

Top teams need a centre back that can build up play like Hansen used to and Rio Ferdinand does. Agger is the best we have at that and should be our number 1 centre back. I'd go for skrtl to parter him as Carra looks terrified when he has the ball and tends to hoof it (but that might be what Rafa wants his defenders to do).

I wouldn't put a new centre back high on our priority list.

I just don't think he's good enough to be our No.1 centre back mate.  My main beef with Agger, apart from being too casual at times, is his lack of upper body strength.  He gets muscled out of it too much and ends up overcompensating by barging into the back of strikers and giving away too many dangerous free kicks.  Not all centre backs need to be built like sh.it-houses, I accept that.  But if you're not in that mould you need to have something else in your locker - ie brilliant at reading the game, brilliant in the air or lightening recovery pace.  While Agger reads the game pretty well, he's not quick and not great in the air.  He's also pretty fragile for a CB - ie picks up a lot of injuries, in an area of the team where you need consistency.  Like I say, he's a good footballer, but not a great defender imo.

[Salty Sock]

Top teams need a centre back that can build up play like Hansen used to and Rio Ferdinand does. Agger is the best we have at that and should be our number 1 centre back. I'd go for skrtl to parter him as Carra looks terrified when he has the ball and tends to hoof it (but that might be what Rafa wants his defenders to do).

I wouldn't put a new centre back high on our priority list.

I just don't think he's good enough to be our No.1 centre back mate.  My main beef with Agger, apart from being too casual at times, is his lack of upper body strength.  He gets muscled out of it too much and ends up overcompensating by barging into the back of strikers and giving away too many dangerous free kicks.  Not all centre backs need to be built like sh.it-houses, I accept that.  But if you're not in that mould you need to have something else in your locker - ie brilliant at reading the game, brilliant in the air or lightening recovery pace.  While Agger reads the game pretty well, he's not quick and not great in the air.  He's also pretty fragile for a CB - ie picks up a lot of injuries, in an area of the team where you need consistency.  Like I say, he's a good footballer, but not a great defender imo.

Excellent.

I have been afraid for some time to offer my thoughts on Agger. If only we had more Gerrards 
It would not hurt to experimenting with some other talent, I believe

[heimdall]

Agger and Skyrtel should be our first choice CB pairing from now on and then deploy Carra on the right. Carra is not getting any younger and Agger/Skyrtel will form a hell of a partnership, might take a few games  for them totally gel but they are both quality and will only get better.

[redbeergoggles]

Top teams need a centre back that can build up play like Hansen used to and Rio Ferdinand does. Agger is the best we have at that and should be our number 1 centre back. I'd go for skrtl to parter him as Carra looks terrified when he has the ball and tends to hoof it (but that might be what Rafa wants his defenders to do).

I wouldn't put a new centre back high on our priority list.

I just don't think he's good enough to be our No.1 centre back mate.  My main beef with Agger, apart from being too casual at times, is his lack of upper body strength.  He gets muscled out of it too much and ends up overcompensating by barging into the back of strikers and giving away too many dangerous free kicks.  Not all centre backs need to be built like sh.it-houses, I accept that.  But if you're not in that mould you need to have something else in your locker - ie brilliant at reading the game, brilliant in the air or lightening recovery pace.  While Agger reads the game pretty well, he's not quick and not great in the air.  He's also pretty fragile for a CB - ie picks up a lot of injuries, in an area of the team where you need consistency.  Like I say, he's a good footballer, but not a great defender imo.

Agger on form is one of the best defenders in the world ,he gives the team a confidence, a touch of composure on the ball ,he simply uses the ball better than any defender we currently have at Anfield .
I shudder at the merest suggestion we could lose him ,the boy is class and we should be building around him .
I think the only problem with Agger at the moment is his concentration levels ,as the rumours circulating at the moment have more than a grain of truth in them ,the club need to throw a protective arm around the boy ,as Houllier did with Gerrard when he moved in the wrong circles ,Liverpool should be loathe to lose this precocious talent . 

[GRAHAM01]

Agger and Skyrtel should be our first choice CB pairing from now on and then deploy Carra on the right. Carra is not getting any younger and Agger/Skyrtel will form a hell of a partnership, might take a few games  for them totally gel but they are both quality and will only get better.

have to say i do like the idea of agger and skittle in the middle but pushing carra out on the right full time i don't think is something we should be doing

he was out on the right for a few games earlier in the season and kuyt was at r.mid and i have to say that we were lacking so much as carra does not get forward that much and with dirk there it just stops us going forward on that side, even mash playing there against sunderland gave us more( don't get me wrong i have said about playing him there when it has been needed ),  on the other hand if we had a winger that would push up the right side that he may get pulled forward and we might get more out of him?? but as it stands we don't so i think his best place is CB and i would play agger with him as he is the only one out of all the CB's we have that carrys the ball out of the box and up the pitch

as for do we need another CB i would have to say if we keep agger then no but if he were to go then yes as sami is getting on now and if skittle or carra got injured we could have a big problem

[redbeergoggles]

We have Jack Hobbs to return also ,and he looks more accomplished every game he currently plays for Leicester 

[GRAHAM01]

We have Jack Hobbs to return also ,and he looks more accomplished every game he currently plays for Leicester 

good point

but would you place him in the first 11 straight away even if he has been playing well for Leicester, i can't say that i have been following him much and seemed to be a bit forgotten about

or were you being sarcastic 

[redbeergoggles]

No fella, a genuine suggestion the lad looks competent enough and his aerial prowess grows more impressive with every bit of experience he gains ,have you watched that league he plays in ? Its all about set plays and aerial bombardment and the lad wins everthing in the air

[GRAHAM01]

No fella, a genuine suggestion the lad looks competent enough and his aerial prowess grows more impressive with every bit of experience he gains ,have you watched that league he plays in ? Its all about set plays and aerial bombardment and the lad wins everthing in the air

as i said i can't say i have seen that much of him yes i have been watching the league but had kind of forgotten about him, yes that league is a lot about banging the ball in the box! kind of hit and hope some times but if you say he is doing well then that is great it can only help us to have someone gaining the experience needed to work a way in to the first team

[bigmick]

Good football thread this and it's slipping down the boards.

Quick question, given we play at least one holding midfielder and sometimes two, do we possibly not need the same "type" of centre half as some teams? Given Masherano and Alonso sit in, teams will look to launch it a bit more against us I guess, so given that isn't it evem more crucial that we have somebody aerially dominant? Equally, perhaps Agger and his ball playing capabilities isn't so vital when you have midfielders stood so close all the time. Perhpas this big tall fella from Fulham wouldn't be such a bad shout when you think about it.

Another quick question, what has happend to Agger? Does anyone have any inside info on his situation? Is he staying, going or what? If it's the latter, we might need TWO centre backs.

Anyway, it still is a genuine football thread now it's been cleaned up, and nobody seems that bothered. Strange

[Sabre]

Mick, be patient, it's not strange, Rome wasn't constructed in one day, and the change of football discussion won't be achieved in one day.

But the very existence of this thread is a good sign :-) you see, the bottle half full always.


Myself I've read it and I have a post pending to make.

I'll touch two points, one, to agree RBG to defend Agger's quality.

Two, to comment on the notion that we should look for a specific CB strong in the air. Perhaps it's one of the alien factors of the continental coaches in England. Many continental coaches might see aerial power as a desirable bonus, but it wouldn't be the first characteristic to sign a player. They'd combat aerial threat from the very source, with a good pressing, and not allowing the players that can put this good balls actually putting them.

Plus, even if we wanted to find Hyypia-esque CB. Please, anyone, where can we find one. That kind of quality, proffessionality, and experience, added to a mastering of a aerial game is very rare. I don't know of any, in fact.

Another quick question, what has happend to Agger?

Asked the same thing the other day. I don't know.

Given Masherano and Alonso sit in, teams will look to launch it a bit more against us I guess, so given that isn't it evem more crucial that we have somebody aerially dominant?

I disagree. I'd agree you if Liverpool weren't aggressive in the recovery of the ball, which is not clearly the case. One of the reasons that made Real Madrid look inactive is the good job we do recovering the ball and doing a good pressing where it has to be done.

[account deleted by request]

In all honesty I don't think we really have much of a problem aerially apart from at set plays. We do let a few too many crosses in, but thats more down to the fullbacks than the CB's.

Set plays ARE a problem though, especially when a few of our taller players are absent through injury or whatever. If Alonso, Torres, Gerrard are all out, not only have we lost three of our more creative players but we have also left ourselves with a problem of lack of height at the back on set plays. We miss Crouch imo, who did a pretty good job of helping out at the back on set plays. 

As far as I know Agger has a back injury. (There are lots of rumours of course as there always are when a player is out for such a long time)