Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Are we now saying that Skrtel and Agger arent good enough? If so I disagree.

I´m happy the way we´ve started this season and suggest we wait until jan/feb before saying that something is not working and looking at any changes. Otherwise its change for the sake of it which in another guise is called rotation.

Yep totally agree mate, lets wait till it starts costing us points and we're out of the title race before we try to do something about it. Totally agree.

None of our most successful managers messed with a team for the sake of it. This thread and comment is more a reflection of your would-be management style rather than Rafa´s or anyones eles and I think you are wrong.

Next you´ll be asking why the BH Rafa bought 4 players 12 months ago that you want to dump in your fantasy side.

Rafa bought the FB´s in because he believes they´re good enough - give them and him the time to prove it.

[Fo Dne]

how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

When did I ever say they were average? You are clearly a wind up merchant and nothing more. I never once called any of our centre halfs average so stop putting words in my mouth you stupid, happy clapping, bellend, manc.

[Yooj Bigullz]

how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

I'd agree about some of the central defenders not being special individuals

But as you pointed out, the defensive record has been largely good, the back four and keeper are a solid unit when you look at the bigger picture

[Fo Dne]

Are we now saying that Skrtel and Agger arent good enough? If so I disagree.

I´m happy the way we´ve started this season and suggest we wait until jan/feb before saying that something is not working and looking at any changes. Otherwise its change for the sake of it which in another guise is called rotation.

Yep totally agree mate, lets wait till it starts costing us points and we're out of the title race before we try to do something about it. Totally agree.

None of our most successful managers messed with a team for the sake of it. This thread and comment is more a reflection of your would-be management style rather than Rafa´s or anyones eles and I think you are wrong.

Next you´ll be asking why the BH Rafa bought 4 players 12 months ago that you want to dump in your fantasy side.

Rafa bought the FB´s in because he believes they´re good enough - give them and him the time to prove it.

They've had more than enough time. It may take you 30 games to see a bag of who can't control a ball lad but It doesn't with some of us.

[burjennio]

Fo Dne Posted on Oct. 02 2008,18:57
Quote (GYBS @ Oct. 02 2008,18:54)
how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

When did I ever say they were average? You are clearly a wind up merchant and nothing more. I never once called any of our centre halfs average so stop putting words in my mouth you stupid, happy clapping, bellend, manc.

Hmmmm

Fo Dne A top centre back is a top class or world class player. None of ours are even remotely close to this. All of them have major flaws in there game, Carragher's not the quickest and woeful on the ball, Skyrtel is mistake prone and ball watches and lacks the positional sense, he's not to clever on the ball either, Agger's awful in the air, distributes the ball awfully and lacks positional sense and Hyypia's about as quick as a tortoise and has seen a major decline in all of his physical attributes bringing him down to the same level of player as the other lads in the position.

I would say thats calling them alot worse than average

[GYBS]

how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

When did I ever say they were average? You are clearly a wind up merchant and nothing more. I never once called any of our centre halfs average so stop putting words in my mouth you stupid, happy clapping, bellend, manc.

excuse me ? Less of insults please , your acting like a petulant little child and its quite pathetic really . Try responding to posts without insulting people . Constant insults just show someone of low intellect who cant offer an opinion without trying to demean the other poster . And as for my post our defensive unit as a unit is one of the best defensive units in europe let alone the prem and the record results and clean sheets prove that beyond doubt .the fact real madrid are apparently after agger shows how highly he is regarded .

[Fo Dne]

how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

When did I ever say they were average? You are clearly a wind up merchant and nothing more. I never once called any of our centre halfs average so stop putting words in my mouth you stupid, happy clapping, bellend, manc.

excuse me ? Less of insults please , your acting like a petulant little child and its quite pathetic really . Try responding to posts without insulting people . Constant insults just show someone of low intellect who cant offer an opinion without trying to demean the other poster . And as for my post our defensive unit as a unit is one of the best defensive units in europe let alone the prem and the record results and clean sheets prove that beyond doubt .the fact real madrid are apparently after agger shows how highly he is regarded .

So the fact Madrid are linked through the press with Agger makes him a great player, but the fact Woodgate has been and played for Madrid means nothing?

You're so full of lad. You really are.

[GYBS]

im sorry but where did i mention woodgate ?you cant post without an insult can you . How old are you ?

[burjennio]

Fo Dne Posted on Oct. 02 2008,19:13
Quote (GYBS @ Oct. 02 2008,19:05)
Quote (Fo Dne @ Oct. 02 2008,18:57)
Quote (GYBS @ Oct. 02 2008,18:54)
how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

When did I ever say they were average? You are clearly a wind up merchant and nothing more. I never once called any of our centre halfs average so stop putting words in my mouth you stupid, happy clapping, bellend, manc.

excuse me ? Less of insults please , your acting like a petulant little child and its quite pathetic really . Try responding to posts without insulting people . Constant insults just show someone of low intellect who cant offer an opinion without trying to demean the other poster . And as for my post our defensive unit as a unit is one of the best defensive units in europe let alone the prem and the record results and clean sheets prove that beyond doubt .the fact real madrid are apparently after agger shows how highly he is regarded .

So the fact Madrid are linked through the press with Agger makes him a great player, but the fact Woodgate has been and played for Madrid means nothing?

You're so full of lad. You really are.

kee-rist this is a petty argument but GYBS Real Madrid are linked with feckin everyone, and Stu/Fo Dne or whatever you're going by Woodgate was a total disaster for Madrid, injured for 8 months then an og and sending off in his 1st game! he then spent time alternating between the bench, treatment table and boffin some tart off big brother, oh and apparently blowing half a mill at online poker

[Effes]

Liege 1 up.... peace everyone

[Leonmc0708]

On paper, whats wrong is nothing.

Your (Stu) system of rating players is entirely your own, and good luck to you with that. But I must disagree on a few things....

Centre Half's

Between Agger, Carra and Skrtel we can produce a centre half pairing better than everyone else in the league bar United and Chelsea. However in the same breath, as far as depth is concerned I feel that once you lose Carvalho/Terry or Ferdinand/Vidic they are weaker than us in that we have three of the same level of ability. Hyyppia is better back up to those three than either of the members of the top four have got in my opinion. So for me there is no problem with the bentre halves.

Full Back

I feel we could do with more attacking players, when I look at the quality of Evra, Bosingwa and Cole. However in our system that Rafa employs attacking full backs are not as important as the front four/five are so fluid in their movement that anyone of them can bomb on at anytime. So for me I dont think the full backs create as much of a problem.

Rafa changing costing points

As for the Rafa losing us points through tinkering, he hasnt this season, and I personaly beleive thats cus he is more trusting of the quality of the players he has at his disposal that he doesnt feel the need to. We will see if he does in the future, but I feel he wont.

Richards

He will be a centre half in due course, thats for sure, so as for having hte best right back in the country I am not sure. For me Bosingwa fits that bill.

But its all about opinions . . . .

All of the top three in terms of ability of the centre backs are absoloutely miles ahead of us and I find it quite laughable for a second anyone could even attempt to dispute that.

Vidic and Ferdinand, as much as I hate to admit it are absoloutely light years ahead of anything we have in that department and for anyone to even question that shows a distinct lack of judgement. Carvalho, Gallas and Toure are also alot better than anything we have as individuals. Terry is probably equal. The difference being is Arsenal's pair don't have the balance. Chelsea are also along way ahead of us in this department.

Also, you only have to look at the number of goals our centre halfs get from set peices (not all to do with delivery, its as much to do with attacking the ball) in comparrison.

How you can sit there and even suggest that Dossena and Arbeloa are good enough is quite simply beyond me and smacks of rose tinted glasses. You clearly fail to look beyond your own garden when comparing players. These positions are a major part of the problem and a major part of the reason we lack creativety. The lack of movement, pace, passing ability and ability to actually overlap restricts the team rediculously and for a second I can't believe that someone as supposedly "knowledgable" as you can't see that.

So that leaves the question then, if we're as good as you are presumabley saying we are then why haven't we challenged in years? Whats wrong?

I'm guessing you rate the other players the same as me. If not maybe I'm overating them.

For years as you put it we have not had this squad -undibtedly Rafas best since he has been here.

As I said, Terry/Carvalho and Vidic/Ferdinand are better than ours, no question, but once they lose one or the other then they are not as strong.

Gallas and Toure are not as good, ask any Arsenal fan and they will tell you that lad.

[Leonmc0708]

how come a team with so many average cbs have one of the best defensive records over the last 3 years ? !

When did I ever say they were average? You are clearly a wind up merchant and nothing more. I never once called any of our centre halfs average so stop putting words in my mouth you stupid, happy clapping, bellend, manc.

excuse me ? Less of insults please , your acting like a petulant little child and its quite pathetic really . Try responding to posts without insulting people . Constant insults just show someone of low intellect who cant offer an opinion without trying to demean the other poster . And as for my post our defensive unit as a unit is one of the best defensive units in europe let alone the prem and the record results and clean sheets prove that beyond doubt .the fact real madrid are apparently after agger shows how highly he is regarded .

So the fact Madrid are linked through the press with Agger makes him a great player, but the fact Woodgate has been and played for Madrid means nothing?

You're so full of lad. You really are.

Nothing to say about linking players but Woodgate was CLEARLY out of his depth in Spain mate and has done nothing since he came back, nothing at all.

Your argument that when he is fit he is awesome is poor. So are King and Saha but you wouldnt want either of them in your squad either.

[LegBarnes]

All the happy clappers over the last few days have left me asking the question, what do they think is wrong?

We haven't challenged for a league title under Benitez, only once, to my mind anyway have we looked an excellent side (back in 2005/2006). Instead of then building on that side major changes were made to both style and personel and now finally we look like we could be a couple of players off getting to that level once more.

I think in Reina we have one of the leagues best keepers. We have 4 centre halfs of pretty much equal ability, none of which are top class but could definately form a top class partnership with the right player if he was brought in. I think both full back area's are weak, the left back being the stronger of the two as Aurelio can actually pass a ball and offers some sort of attacking threat.

In midfield, Gerrard and Alonso are quality and with Mascherano as back up there's absoloutely no problems there (apart from when Lucas is used). Riera has added balance and intelligence to the left side and upfront Keane and Torres are more than good enough.

Now, what confuses me, is in my opinion, we lack a top centre half, a top right back and a good right sided player. But I keep hearing how good our centre backs, Arbeloa and Kuyt are. The reason this confuses me as I see all of these as clear weaknesses and people are telling me these players are upto it.

So if they are upto it, am I overating Torres, Alonso, Gerrard, Reina, Reira, Carragher, Mascherano and the rest? Where are the problems? Why don't we ever put together a title challenge? Are all the players good enough and its the manager?

For my mind, the manager costs us maybe 6-8 points a season by around with the team when he shouldn't. But that doesn't make up the other amount of points we end up behind the winners eventually.

I do rate Benitez as a coach and a tactician, as a manager I'm not sure. His signings have been in large poor. Obviously there are exceptions, but he's wasted alot of money on players that aren't upto it, he also though makes to many erratic decisions and wrong ones with regards to team selection andwith regards to his best players.

In terms of analysing a game and reading the flow of the game and being able to alter the pattern of play I think he's the best around, I just feel the basics sometimes elude him.

Back to the players:

           Keane      Torres
Reira    Alonso      Gerrard     ? ? ? ?
Aurelio  ? ? ? ?     Carragher   ? ? ? ?
                  Reina

That looks like a potentially top class team. You could put Pennant on the right, or Mascherano in the middle and Gerrard on the right and the team would still be classy.

I'd love us to go and sign Richards in the summer as a statement of intent. He would cost a bomb but I think we could get him if we were persistent. I also think we'd then have the best right back in the league, going from a position of having one of the worst full backs in the top half of the prem, to unquestionabley the best would benefit the team immensely.

Only thing that be wrong on paper will be if you get a pass on your Fa badges.

All you do is bring up pointless drabble about where we lack this and that but thing is rafa don't seem to agree amd no matter how much trip you come out with it won't change that.

Just learn to be a real surporter and deal with the team or just go surport the players you like in another team.

Bcos like it or not all these so called rubbish players who can't kick a ball are joint top of the table and still haven't got into 3rd gear let alone 5th. 

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

woodgate world class, stopped reading after that nearly fell off my chair

[Sabre]

I share some, but not all of the question marks he rises in his team. I often see eye to eye his assessments of players, being Agger and Keane apparently two exceptions, for me they are no question marks.

Our problems? a proper right midfielder and a top class RB (here I agree), and our lack of depth in certain areas. I consider Liverpool a top team in Europe. Top teams in Europe, you look at their bench, and you say, Oh my god!!!

While when I look at the midfield I see that (seeing Alonso in the bench for instance would be to have that kind of top replacements), and that's why I wouldn't fiddle with the midfield, when I look at the strikers I know that if Torres is injured, we are well and truly fúcked. That's what we lack compared to Barcelona for instance. They, for instance, would dream to have an Alonso or a Mascherano, but when you see the amount and quality of replacements they have everywhere it's a joke.