Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

On paper, what's wrong?

Well, if I were to print this whole thread on paper, I could use it for bog roll.

[Igor Zidane]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

[NANNY RED]

I think Arbys doin ok so far but why go an spend millions on a new right back when imo Young Steven Darby fits the bill perfect ive said before the lad reminds me of Rob Jones but can score. Id like to see him given a go to be honest

[Zidane]

Every top team has a player here or there that wouldn't be better than ours in the same position and vice versa, so what?  We have a solid squad, it isn't perfect by any means but I don't see any reason to not believe we won't challenge for the title this season.  We're playing with a lot of confidence and if we have a good result sunday which I expect to happen it'll only strengthen the belief and confidence the squad has.

There are flaws with the Xabi/Steve pairing just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they are the better pairing every match.  I don't know what players Rafa has really given time either from what I've seen he's bought and sold players every season if they don't play up to the standards he expects.

That said Rafa doesn't have a great eye for talent and maybe that is why you have that outlook on the club and the manager. He rates certain players for reasons that I don't think are entirely beneficial to the squad, but if he doesn't rate someone he is quick to get rid of them or not play them.

[Fo Dne]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

Thats the point. I'm sick of excuses and every one of those is an excuse. Arbeloa is the worst footballer in that first 11. Closely followed by Kuyt.

They are not good enough to win us a league. To much breaks down with them, we need better players. Simple as that.

When we improve both of those positions to a reasonable standard we will have a very strong side.

Arbeloa doesn't overlap either. He is awful at it and the amount of times I stand there watching him thinking "what the are you waiting for?" is beyond a joke. He often doesn't craete the space for Kuyt and Kuyt ends up with two players around him which he's not capable of handling due to his dodgy touch. He's part of the reason Kuyt keeps losing the ball. I really can't quite understand how you can even contemplate thinking he's a good player. He's distinctly average at best and we will not win a title with a player like that in the first 11.

[Fo Dne]

On paper, what's wrong?

Well, if I were to print this whole thread on paper, I could use it for bog roll.

Fuckwit alert!

[Fo Dne]

I think Arbys doin ok so far but why go an spend millions on a new right back when imo Young Steven Darby fits the bill perfect ive said before the lad reminds me of Rob Jones but can score. Id like to see him given a go to be honest

No way Nanny, not in a million years. Would struggle in the lower leagues let alone the premiership.

[account deleted by request]

I think we have a couple of players that arn't quite at the level we would like, but we also have some great players, and if they can avoid injury, and play to their best level I think we have a chance. Hang in there till Christmas. and hopefully bring in the one or two players we need to seal it.

I don't think its happy clappy to think we have a chance, but I think we need luck both with injuries and form if we are going to take that chance.

[Rush Job]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

Thats the point. I'm sick of excuses and every one of those is an excuse. Arbeloa is the worst footballer in that first 11. Closely followed by Kuyt.

They are not good enough to win us a league. To much breaks down with them, we need better players. Simple as that.

When we improve both of those positions to a reasonable standard we will have a very strong side.

Arbeloa doesn't overlap either. He is awful at it and the amount of times I stand there watching him thinking "what the are you waiting for?" is beyond a joke. He often doesn't craete the space for Kuyt and Kuyt ends up with two players around him which he's not capable of handling due to his dodgy touch. He's part of the reason Kuyt keeps losing the ball. I really can't quite understand how you can even contemplate thinking he's a good player. He's distinctly average at best and we will not win a title with a player like that in the first 11.

TBH mate ive been saying the same thing about Arbeloa, not good enough going forward and a definate weak link in defence.
I quite like Aurelio though, what do you think about him?

[Bam]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

Thats the point. I'm sick of excuses and every one of those is an excuse. Arbeloa is the worst footballer in that first 11. Closely followed by Kuyt.

They are not good enough to win us a league. To much breaks down with them, we need better players. Simple as that.

When we improve both of those positions to a reasonable standard we will have a very strong side.

Arbeloa doesn't overlap either. He is awful at it and the amount of times I stand there watching him thinking "what the are you waiting for?" is beyond a joke. He often doesn't craete the space for Kuyt and Kuyt ends up with two players around him which he's not capable of handling due to his dodgy touch. He's part of the reason Kuyt keeps losing the ball. I really can't quite understand how you can even contemplate thinking he's a good player. He's distinctly average at best and we will not win a title with a player like that in the first 11.

TBH mate ive been saying the same thing about Arbeloa, not good enough going forward and a definate weak link in defence.
I quite like Aurelio though, what do you think about him?

Well again in fairness to Arbeloa, Steve Finnan who was Mr consistent at RB, defensively sound. But his unwillingness to support the player infront of him never got him the critical attention Arbeloas getting now.

Dont get me wrong Finnan was a good defender, but he never ventured forward as I would of liked. Arbeloa IMO does go foward much more, and its not his fault he's got someone in Kuyt ahead of him who is totally void of any attacking ideas and threat. Still even when Pennant was ahead of Arbeloa the two IMO did link up very well in games, although Pennant isnt the answer in RM, (he lacks end product, and just lofts high balls into the area) But in geting into the positions him and Arbeloa worked well.

Technically Arbeloa is sound IMO, he has a good touch and his control is decent, and unlike Kuyt he can even take a man on every now and again, his goal against Reading showed he has quality in composure and technique.

Defensively I dont think he's the liability every one makes him out to be. He isnt as good as Finnan in that aspect, but hes by no means poor either. I dont think any goals that we've conceeded this season are because of him.

[banana]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

Thats the point. I'm sick of excuses and every one of those is an excuse. Arbeloa is the worst footballer in that first 11. Closely followed by Kuyt.

They are not good enough to win us a league. To much breaks down with them, we need better players. Simple as that.

When we improve both of those positions to a reasonable standard we will have a very strong side.

Arbeloa doesn't overlap either. He is awful at it and the amount of times I stand there watching him thinking "what the are you waiting for?" is beyond a joke. He often doesn't craete the space for Kuyt and Kuyt ends up with two players around him which he's not capable of handling due to his dodgy touch. He's part of the reason Kuyt keeps losing the ball. I really can't quite understand how you can even contemplate thinking he's a good player. He's distinctly average at best and we will not win a title with a player like that in the first 11.

TBH mate ive been saying the same thing about Arbeloa, not good enough going forward and a definate weak link in defence.
I quite like Aurelio though, what do you think about him?

Well again in fairness to Arbeloa, Steve Finnan who was Mr consistent at RB, defensively sound. But his unwillingness to support the player infront of him never got him the critical attention Arbeloas getting now.

Dont get me wrong Finnan was a good defender, but he never ventured forward as I would of liked. Arbeloa IMO does go foward much more, and its not his fault he's got someone in Kuyt ahead of him who is totally void of any attacking ideas and threat. Still even when Pennant was ahead of Arbeloa the two IMO did link up very well in games, although Pennant isnt the answer in RM, (he lacks end product, and just lofts high balls into the area) But in geting into the positions him and Arbeloa worked well.

Technically Arbeloa is sound IMO, he has a good touch and his control is decent, and unlike Kuyt he can even take a man on every now and again, his goal against Reading showed he has quality in composure and technique.

Defensively I dont think he's the liability every one makes him out to be. He isnt as good as Finnan in that aspect, but hes by no means poor either. I dont think any goals that we've conceeded this season are because of him.

I think I agrr with you on this. Arbeloa is not world class. But he is good. Although even a world class player would struggle providing something down the right with Kuyt in front of him. Don't forget that Arbeloa provides important cover on defensive set pieces as he is one of our best in the air. Arbeloa is not worse than the other players we have had there the last 10 years. Babel only had one good season, and yes he was brilliant that year. Arbeloa has kept his man calm for every single game this season. He has looked in control of things and his positioning and game intelligence is good. He can pass the ball and he is not afraid of crossing the halfway line. Ok, a player like Micah Richards would improve us massively but that ain't gonna happen. The biggest problem is that Arbeloa has no competition. If he gets injured we must move Carra to the right, and that will hurt us. Carra offers nothing out there we all know that.


The is the only real weakness in our team right now. I don't like Kuyt but I must admit that he has played better the last month than I was expecting. I still hope we can sell Pennant and bring in some real competition on the right in january.

[Igor Zidane]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

Thats the point. I'm sick of excuses and every one of those is an excuse. Arbeloa is the worst footballer in that first 11. Closely followed by Kuyt.

They are not good enough to win us a league. To much breaks down with them, we need better players. Simple as that.

When we improve both of those positions to a reasonable standard we will have a very strong side.

Arbeloa doesn't overlap either. He is awful at it and the amount of times I stand there watching him thinking "what the are you waiting for?" is beyond a joke. He often doesn't craete the space for Kuyt and Kuyt ends up with two players around him which he's not capable of handling due to his dodgy touch. He's part of the reason Kuyt keeps losing the ball. I really can't quite understand how you can even contemplate thinking he's a good player. He's distinctly average at best and we will not win a title with a player like that in the first 11.

Stu you always always go over the top with your critisim of players . Arbeloa is not distinctly average at best . He is a solid right back playing himself in to solid good form . I'll say it again , he does overlap and has many times this season . He does create space and is an attacking threat at times.

If i knew how to do it ,i'd download the feckin clips and prove the feckin thing . Like i said ,he is the best right back we have at the club . If we go out in January and by better ,that's fine by me . If we don't i'd also be ok with that as i think he is not a liabilty and not a threat to us having a title challenge .

Having said all that ,he'll probably have  stinker against citeh today. 

[Fo Dne]

I think we have a couple of players that arn't quite at the level we would like, but we also have some great players, and if they can avoid injury, and play to their best level I think we have a chance. Hang in there till Christmas. and hopefully bring in the one or two players we need to seal it.

I don't think its happy clappy to think we have a chance, but I think we need luck both with injuries and form if we are going to take that chance.

Thats the only realistic chance we have saint.

My point is when teams start to hit our weaknesses and we have a bad patch we don't have the quality to come out of it straight away, there will be a point in this season where we probably win one in 5 league games and I think a period like that once will see you lose serious ground, IF we can get to Janurary within 3-5 points off the top (which I doubt) and the correct positions are strengthend accordingly (Like Riera strengthened the left for the benefit of the team) then we'll have a chance. If not, it will again be yet another season of false hope for you all.

How many times must we have this conversation over the years before you all learn?

Seriously, its been 19 years and as yet, I've only seen two sides capable of doing it, and both were dismantled and added to incorrectly the season after. This side is getting there, but as to whether we have a manager (unlike most of the fans) who can spot the current weaknesses, then the same thing is again going to happen.

I'm as certain of that as I was when making my "predictions/judgements" on Kuyt, Hyypia, Carragher, Baros, Sissoko and the likes.

[Fo Dne]

Stu , you always fall into the same trap , where have i compared arbeloa to anyone let alone jones or babbel . What games have you seen  this season mate , cos the ones i've seen he's been overlapping like a madman at times , that kuyt doesn't pass to him is niether here nor there ,he has been making those runs . He's not average ,at defending and he's got a damn sight more pace than steve finnan .

Fair enough on the kuyt thing , you would go for flair and guile in both flanks rather than on one with riera. Where as i think rafa is a bit to cautious a manager to do that and probably wants some insurance which kuyt brings with his closing down and workrate(nasty word that).

Regarding the title challenge your not comparing oranges with oranges , we have bought more quality in this year so the improvement will show . The players he's brought in are better than the ones we had in there respective positions . I will expect us to have some sort of title challenge this year ,to win it though is big ask , but one which this team and squad ia capable of i think . If we wern't good enough before to win the league , then this year i can only hope we are there or there abouts.

Thats the point. I'm sick of excuses and every one of those is an excuse. Arbeloa is the worst footballer in that first 11. Closely followed by Kuyt.

They are not good enough to win us a league. To much breaks down with them, we need better players. Simple as that.

When we improve both of those positions to a reasonable standard we will have a very strong side.

Arbeloa doesn't overlap either. He is awful at it and the amount of times I stand there watching him thinking "what the are you waiting for?" is beyond a joke. He often doesn't craete the space for Kuyt and Kuyt ends up with two players around him which he's not capable of handling due to his dodgy touch. He's part of the reason Kuyt keeps losing the ball. I really can't quite understand how you can even contemplate thinking he's a good player. He's distinctly average at best and we will not win a title with a player like that in the first 11.

TBH mate ive been saying the same thing about Arbeloa, not good enough going forward and a definate weak link in defence.
I quite like Aurelio though, what do you think about him?

I don't think he's a top player but he's not a bad one. He's above average and while being injury prone and a bit inconsistent he can do a decent job.

I think he would be ok in a good team in other words mainly because of his use of the ball and he has the ability and knows when to overlap and offer support.

In order to really push on I believe we need in order:

1. Right back: (a very good one) Richards hopefully, if not Glen Johnson would be a good alternative.
2. Right wing: Get Pennant in there and see how he does in a settled and improving side, if he fails to produce, I couldn't really think of one off the top of my head, but sure theres someone out there who could improve us as a TEAM!
3. Centre half: we need a top class centre half to play with one of the four we have now. I'd let Agger go if the figures are correct and sign someone better. They are all pretty equal without any of them really standing out and I think, as good as our defensive record is, it could be better, especially against the better sides.
4. Left back (the least important due to the position on the pitch and it would be surrounded by quality and we already have Aurelio who is decent).

[Igor Zidane]

Told you Arbeloa would have a stinker stu didn't i , although he did do well for our first goal . Both full backs were poor today mate.