Night of the long knives - Rafa clears out 16

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby DrPepe » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:32 pm

aCe' wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
aCe' wrote:Ah fck off Barry... Ofcourse they'r going to say they got sacked because the club is trying to lower the costs... but we all know that sooner or later we'll be signing some replacements and guess what.. Rafa will be the one picking them... Dont think the two Yanks are THAAT involved in the footballing matters in the club, deciding on who to sack from our youth academy and who to keep ...
All comes down to Rafa whether u admit it or not... wants things done his way and fair enough... not like i give  a fck or two about who the youth academy head coach is or anythin but lets not get all silly about pretty much everything here blaming the yanks for everything...

Lets not forget the fat wages our very own manager gets here... my point was and still is... that people like Shannon helped the club bring through some of our best local young talent in recent times, should have kept him if only for his experience...

experience of NOT bringing enough talent through?  ???

sounds to me like the system has been failing for the last 10 years and someone has instigated a revolution

:sleepy:

get a clue...

the type of post messageboards were created for  :laugh:
"If I put a player in another position, suddenly 20 experts are going on about it. Experts of what, though? I don't know." - Rafa
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Postby burjennio » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:34 pm

aCe' wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
aCe' wrote:Ah fck off Barry... Ofcourse they'r going to say they got sacked because the club is trying to lower the costs... but we all know that sooner or later we'll be signing some replacements and guess what.. Rafa will be the one picking them... Dont think the two Yanks are THAAT involved in the footballing matters in the club, deciding on who to sack from our youth academy and who to keep ...
All comes down to Rafa whether u admit it or not... wants things done his way and fair enough... not like i give  a fck or two about who the youth academy head coach is or anythin but lets not get all silly about pretty much everything here blaming the yanks for everything...

Lets not forget the fat wages our very own manager gets here... my point was and still is... that people like Shannon helped the club bring through some of our best local young talent in recent times, should have kept him if only for his experience...

experience of NOT bringing enough talent through?  ???

sounds to me like the system has been failing for the last 10 years and someone has instigated a revolution

:sleepy:

get a clue...

Guys in fairness I can't se how anyone can defend the youth system when the last permanent 1st team player to come through was Steven Gerrard a decade ago. The only other that even came close was Stevie Warnock and he was a bit part player at best.

In the end it doesn't matter who is responsible for the departures, Im certain the decision was made in the best interests of the club.
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Postby Rush Job » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:25 pm

Number 9 wrote:I would love to go all clockwork orange on the both of ya!

:laugh:  :laugh:
Im having that one mate, its mine now. :D
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:30 pm

The reason that was printed today in the sunday s*n is because Bascombe and Usher are angry, no other reasons their spy's, and leaks from the club will now officially come to holt dry up, apart from one more spy still being at the club.

Loose lips sink ships.
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Postby bigmick » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:16 am

Fairly obviously the guys who have been sacked would find it hard to be aggrieved based on the huge amount of success they've been having. That said, they could obviously make a case for their loyalty over the years to Liverpool being forgotten, and more pertinantly I think they've got a very strong argument whioch would indicate that it isn't really their fault that we have been so awful at producing players for many years now.

Firstly you have to recruit the right youngsters. Now we've gone on a round the world quest ever since Rafa has been at the club, signing various kids sometimes for decent money from all corners of the globe. I think it's fair to say that so far the policy hasn't exactly been a rip roaring success, and the question is are we buying/acquiring the wrong people in the first place, or is their ability coached out of them at the academy?

Now obviously it's hard to say for sure, but I simply cannot accept that the same people who brought through Gerrard, Carragher, Owen, Fowler, Macmanaman and the like have suddenly become useless. Much more likely is the idea that we are recruiting the wrong players, or more to the point NOT recruiting the right ones. Too often recently I've seen good young players at Everton, Man Utd, Villa and the like and I've been left wondering where were we when they were being snapped up? No doubt on some dusty European claycourt pitch drooling over some kids "technical skill". We need IMHO to focus much closer to Home, and to consider more readily players who are potentially going to be suited to ENGLISH football. That we apparently aren't doing that, is hardly these guys fault.

The other area which isn't these guys fault is that we are less attractive to the best young boys, simply because we have an awful history of not giving them an opportunity. Now you could ask on many levels why on Earth we spent 7 million quid on Dossena last Summer, and I'm not even talking about the fact that he is awful. I'm talking about the fact that we had Insua, so why didn't we trust him to be back up? Why did we need another left back? You could say the same thing for Deggen at right back. Now obviously in his case he may actually be quite good, although whether or not we will ever find out is another thing. Derby though is quite good by all accounts, why not trust him? When you add in the absolute proliferation of "options" and "possibility" players we have stuffed the squad with over the years, you can see why the youngsters don't come through.

Then we leapfrog the whole system by bringing in players like David N'Gog. Although I haven't seen them play, can he really be that much better than Nemeth and Pacecho (and if he is, what are they doing still at the club?). Even the dreaded styling might be a bit easier to stomach if we were blooding a couple of youngsters as opposed to a Bolo Zenden.

No, I agree the acadamy has been an abject failure, but it may well be the case that the wrong people were before the firing squad on this occasion.
Last edited by bigmick on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Effes » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:23 am

Am I missing something here, but didnt we win 2 Under 18 Cups lately, then got to a final this year?
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Postby bigmick » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:28 am

We did Eff' but still the kids don't come through. My guess is that we have a bunch of very talented, very lightweight kids who simply couldn't handle the step up. Could be wrong but what other explanation is there? Not enough Gabriel Abonlahors, Micah Richards', that young black lad who is on the fringe at Everton, Johnny Evans' etc etc. Sometimes you've got to be an athlete as well as a footballer. Even the Mancs with their "superstar" squad bring though kids much better than we do. Terrible really.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:53 am

bigmick wrote:We did Eff' but still the kids don't come through. My guess is that we have a bunch of very talented, very lightweight kids who simply couldn't handle the step up. Could be wrong but what other explanation is there? Not enough Gabriel Abonlahors, Micah Richards', that young black lad who is on the fringe at Everton, Johnny Evans' etc etc. Sometimes you've got to be an athlete as well as a footballer. Even the Mancs with their "superstar" squad bring though kids much better than we do. Terrible really.

I do agree with the sentiment of our failed youth system. But a lot has to be said of Rafa not playing youth team players more.

One of the best examples is Jay Spearing who, in the majority of Liverpool fans opinion's, is better than Lucas, yet who gets the nod??
Last edited by SouthCoastShankly on Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ciggy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:22 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:One of the best examples is Jay Spearing who, in the majority of Liverpool fans opinion's, is better than Lucas, yet who gets the nod??

True. And if Ngog gets a game why not try Nemeth aswell?
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:50 am

did spearing come through the academy?
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Postby Greavesie » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:57 am

he did Peewee :)
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Postby GYBS » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:58 am

Cant see what the problem is really ? The club have sacked people they didnt think was doing a good enough job for them ? end of story
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:12 am

Think there is more to it than that GYBS.

Like mick and a few others have said, some of the players should have had more of a chance.

Me and you have debated this this season when we were discussing Lucas and Spearing.

Darby and Insua should definately have figured more, with Insua he was i suppose unfortunate that he went away with the young argentina side.
But Darby hasnt had a look in despite playing pre-season and doing well.
And we have played Skyrtl, Mascherano and Carragher right back instead of him.
What would that tell you if you were a youngster ?

The Ngog situation was also bizarre.
Nemeth was flying last season and looked on the verge of the first team as a squad member.
Rafa went out and signed Ngog and loaned Nemeth out, that didnt make any sense at all to me. Its not like the french player has bags of experience either.
Nemeth has played for the full Hungarian national team and done well.

If i was one of those players i would also be really disallusioned.
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Postby GYBS » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:30 am

Sorry i meaning in respect to the guys getting fired - agree that maybe darby might of had a chance but seen him a few times and he looks ok but nothing much . Nemeth i agree but hasnt he had some injury problems this season ?
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:42 am

GYBS wrote:Sorry i meaning in respect to the guys getting fired - agree that maybe darby might of had a chance but seen him a few times and he looks ok but nothing much . Nemeth i agree but hasnt he had some injury problems this season ?

The thing with Darby though is that there wasnt anybody else at times and we have played players out of position instead.
He is steady enough and would have held his own i think.
Nemeth has been injured yeah but was still loaned out and got injured at Blackpool.
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