Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

Well, for one, I hope that two out of our back four don't get hurt in the first half of the first game of the season.  I hope that our class players show their ability from the first kick of the ball rather than waiting until the leaves are falling and, yes Mick, I hope that Rafa recognizes that forward momentum is best achieved when a more or less settled side get the opportunity to collectively find form early in the season.

I also hope we sign a player or two that can unlock stubborn defenses--whether it be Chelsea at Stamford Bridge or Portsmouth at Anfield.  The other "big" clubs need to know we mean business, even on their patch, and the so-called "lesser" teams need to add us to the list of sides they are certain they're going to get nothing from.  For me that means bringing in those few quality attacking players that can terrorize a team single-handedly (in the event that everyone else is having a shocker).  We don't need to abandon our solid defensive tactics but we do need to be able to break stubborn teams down, ruthlessly and clinically.

What I expect next season, at a minimum, is:

1) a start that keeps us at, or within 3-5 points of, the top of the table for a least three months (thereby testing Mick's theory about how much more effectively we'd play against the league's lesser lights when we're still in the title hunt)

2) an unbeaten record at Anfield (preferably all wins)

3) no more than 3 losses all season

4) an unbeaten record against teams in places 7-20, with maximum points taken from teams in the bottom half of the table

5) at least 5 points earned from our visits to SB, OT and Emirates

6) Still being in the title race by the end of April

I think these are realistic targets given our current squad, spruced up with a few quality attacking players.  The rest is down to luck.  Oh, and--dare I say it--it might not be the worst thing ever if we find ourselves out of the Champions League at a relatively early stage next year (but I'm not holding my breath on that).

[112-1077774096]

chelsea and man utd have shown that its possible to be in the hunt for 3 or 4 trophies at the end of the season, and i dont put their losses this week down to fatigue, i think the chance of winning things spurs players on.

the big problem is rafa, will he rotate again at the start, he has done it the last 3 season and put us out the title race, like i said before it hasnt been his prority, lets hope that changes next season

[account deleted by request]

Which of the players that rafa was rotating in and out of the team (as opposed to the forced injuries)was actually playing well enough to be undroppable early in the season? The only real query for me was Crouch. He was on fire both for Liverpool and England and then can't get a game? Apart from Crouch no one was really putting any markers down, rafa had players who he had bought and obviously rated, the fact that they wern't perhaps as ready as he thought for the prem was a bad blow when he rotated them in.

I have no problems with rotation at all, as long as its quality in for quality out. Rotating Gerrard for Zenden for example would not be my idea of good rotation, Mascherano for Alonso on the other hand would be ok for me.

[bigmick]

I think the thing was we rotated from the very first pre-season game, through all the friendlies and then crucially into the Champions League qualifier, (where we played Bellamy up front on his own) along with a couple of other odd selections. The result was we scraped a 2-1 win with a last minute Gonzales goal, meaning we then had to field as near as possible a full strength team over there to avoid the absolute catastrophe of non qualification in Europe. We then played Sheffield United away on the Saturday beforehand, "rested" some players to ensure we could put a decent team out in Israel and the rest is history. In trying to find balance in the ranks we proceeded to lose every game away from home for the next few weeks. Those who called us all knee-jerkers for over-reacting after Bramhall Lane went quiet as we were out of the title race by October.

Far from disproving my point, my feeling is the fact that we also picked up injuries proves it beyond doubt. THAT is what rotation is for, covering for injuries and tiredness. If you rotate needlessly, on the very first competitive game of the season FFS then you are asking for trouble and trouble is exactly what we got. Who's fault was it? Rafa's in my opinion, 100%.

Now next season, if we start the season in the same way as we have the last three, with silly rotations and awful consequences followed by an almost grudging acceptance that perhaps we should pick our best team regularly and thus infinitely better results have occurred, I for one would be absolutelty livid TBH. Three seasons is enough to learn the lesson. PICK YOUR STRONGEST TEAM FFS UNTIL WE HAVE SOME MOMENTUM. If he does that, and I think he will, I think the current squad would have gone very close this year, and with a slight improvement in a couple of areas we might just win it.

[66-1112520797]

I'd expect us to try and at least squeeze in between ManU and Chelsea next season, and improve on what already has been our downfall this season. Our away form has been very poor this season, alot of people have pointed the finger at possibly Rafa's rotation. On that note I did find it quite hypocritical when he said Chelsea rested and rotated their players for their home match with Bolton prior to our semi-final CL clash. Was it mind games ? Or does he see the picture and reaguard rotation as risky if not undermiming to the opponent ?

Look, on the subject of rotation I couldnt care whether he does or doesnt as long as he gets the results, but he hasnt. Which proves to me you should play your best eleven when and where possible. I think as much as the players need to improve their on field performances, Rafa has to apply some of his meticulous planning from European matches and use it just as much when it comes to the domestic campaign.

Like Bob said our top players next season all have to perform week in week out, they all looked ragged and out of sorts at the beginning of this. Also I think Rafa will have to adopt a slighlty more cavalier (sp) way of playing, when we come up against the likes of Bolton, Everton, Man.C and Villa etc. At times we find it so hard in breaking teams down.
I think these teams line-up against us as we would against top European teams, when we play as a tight well organised drilled unit. And look to nick a goal or two from somewhere. Our style at the moment would be okay if we were playing Arsenal, ManU or Chelsea every week. But I dont think its ruthless enough at times against the rest of the Premiership teams.

We've all said we need a winger or two and a striker to offer us that bit more pace, flair and creativity we cant expect Gerrard to constantly be the threat and creator of our attacks. Our midfield too MUST chip in with more goals next season, as it stands I think its a very poor goals for count. But knowing Rafa, will he sign these flambuyont players it seems we need ......... I'm not so sure. He likes workers, runners, team players. Crouch, Kuyt, Mascha and the likes of Bellamy with these you can really see the kind of approach he likes to take. As good as they are we need that player who is a little bit special, a player that can turn a game on its head, someone like Garcia but possibly more consistent.

On the subject of Midfield I cant see us winning the league with a central pairing of Mascha and Alonso, their two players of similar stlye, a containing style. We need a lot more than that through the middle next season, I would have to say that Gerrard needs to be back their for all if not most of our games. Especially against mid-table opposition, its two cautious at times. Why play two holding midfielders, whats the point ?

This thread is a little early, as I would of liked to of seen who Rafa purchases over the summer to get a better idea. But as I said its about time we made head way in the Prem. All this "we need 2-3 players next year c.rap" is wearing thin. FFS havent we been saying that for the last ten years and in that time we've probably gone through a good 7-8 teams kin hell. Excuses have got to stop sooner rather than later, even if means putting the CL onto the back-burner I think Rafa has to sort his priorities out now and I'd at least expect us to challenge Chelsea and ManU next season.

[account deleted by request]

I think the thing was we rotated from the very first pre-season game, through all the friendlies and then crucially into the Champions League qualifier, (where we played Bellamy up front on his own) along with a couple of other odd selections. The result was we scraped a 2-1 win with a last minute Gonzales goal, meaning we then had to field as near as possible a full strength team over there to avoid the absolute catastrophe of non qualification in Europe. We then played Sheffield United away on the Saturday beforehand, "rested" some players to ensure we could put a decent team out in Israel and the rest is history. In trying to find balance in the ranks we proceeded to lose every game away from home for the next few weeks. Those who called us all knee-jerkers for over-reacting after Bramhall Lane went quiet as we were out of the title race by October.

Far from disproving my point, my feeling is the fact that we also picked up injuries proves it beyond doubt. THAT is what rotation is for, covering for injuries and tiredness. If you rotate needlessly, on the very first competitive game of the season FFS then you are asking for trouble and trouble is exactly what we got. Who's fault was it? Rafa's in my opinion, 100%.

Now next season, if we start the season in the same way as we have the last three, with silly rotations and awful consequences followed by an almost grudging acceptance that perhaps we should pick our best team regularly and thus infinitely better results have occurred, I for one would be absolutelty livid TBH. Three seasons is enough to learn the lesson. PICK YOUR STRONGEST TEAM FFS UNTIL WE HAVE SOME MOMENTUM. If he does that, and I think he will, I think the current squad would have gone very close this year, and with a slight improvement in a couple of areas we might just win it.

I do understand were you are coming from Mick and to a lesser extent agree with you. The facts dont seem to back you up though mate. Why did we win our home games but lose all our away games if rotation was the problem. Surely we should have been losing at home as well? Or are you saying that he only rotated away from home?

As for momentum, after we lost to Chelsea away in mid September we had a good little run got a bit of momentum going but it didn't last , as soon as we had to play away again we were fk'd and lost to Bolton.

I think rotation has no doubt cost us points and confidence this season, but I think its just one of many problems that we failed to solve. The main problem has been why are we so poor away from home? Yes we have been unlucky in a few games away, but no doubt we were unlucky in a few games at home also. Our home form would have us challenging for the League, our away form has cost us any chance, not simply rotation.

[The Manhattan Project]

Minimum Requirements

Premiership: At least top four.
Champions League: Semi finals.
FA Cup: Winners
Carling Cup: Winners.

[lakes10]

What i want for next season is to go into the last 3 game still with a chance of winning the Prem.

What we will get is

"lets take the positives from this game"

" the new player are just finding their feet"
"in time the new players will come good"
"give them one year and we will be top dog"

what we could end upwith is  3rd of 4th again and about 12 points from the top.

right from the srat some rules should be set out for new players.

You get 3 games to show what you can do, if not you will need to fight in the reserves to get your place back.

after 6 weeks if you are still not on form you could be sold so we can get our money back.

Also new rules must be set out for Rafa........

take each prem game as a must win game.

Dont take the bottom 10 teams as a given win and rest key players.

The prem is our bread and butter and is win at all cost.

The FA CUP is good to win but is forgoten in a year by non liverpool fans
Oh and so is the CL unless you come back from 3-0 down to win it.

English players have more heart to win the Prem and will put their body on the line to win it.

[66-1112520797]

Sorry






















































"after 6 weeks if you are still not on form you could be sold so we can get our money back."

[66-1112520797]

Hey Lakes, if we buy someone in the summer give em six weeks to perform, how can we sell them. The transfer window will be shut unitil January ? 

[lakes10]

Car boot sale???

[lakes10]

I hear we take Zenden to the Stanley Road Car Boot Sale every Sunday but ended up coming back with him.


no what i am saying is that after 6 weeks we would start to look get offload the player at the next chance.

[66-1112520797]

Car boot sale???

[kunilson]

Rafa claims to know the importance of the premiership to the club and fans.

Whether or not this CL run is papering over the cracks can be put aside just for the moment. He has backing from the board, he has spent 3 seasons in a league so he now KNOWS what its like home and away. He has money to spend and full confidence from new owners.
Now, how good is rafa when the pressure is on him? because im sure next season a 3rd place finish and no cup run, which has saved us the past couple of seasons, will put the spotlight on him just a bit. maybe a lot.
Now this doesn't mean that he should get sacked or anything like that....but he would know that how great it is now with the support of everyone can change just as quickly to the opposite. At valencia he responded by bringing the la liga home.......i hope rafa can respond the same way here. The over-rotation is something he never backed down to, but he has to start listening cos the same mistakes cannot be made again.
Not only are we tired of the same excuses at the end of every season, but im tired of managers having 3-year 4-year plans to bring us back on top, i want results. At the back-end of last season i was one of those who thought we could go for the premiership this season too, because we actually did well in the league....really well all things considered. This year was a step back. this year was two steps back in terms of the league...and this is worrying because of what we went through with houllier. From being a team on the up, we looked to be a team in limbo, with gerrard threatening to leave and owen leaving etc.
we've stalled way too much, im talking strictly about the league here, rafa has to deliver now.

[hello_red]

given budget compared with the top two id say we have improved this season becasue in rafas first season we only got 5th place and a champions league cup. this season we could finish 3rd and with another champions league cup. to me that suggests improvement, our squad is good. the fringe players arent good enough but the main staring 11 plus to more decent players in the transfer window we will have what it takes in my opinion.

people ask way to much of the resources given to Rafa, maybe its through hope but at the end of the day we need the trabnsfer budget. and we sahould that now the 2 americans have taken over. i see good things.