Liverpool FC Forum

[Tim LFC]

What are you guys smoking? If Lucas were to be in the starting line up, he should be CDM. He offers NOTHING going forward. He is too slow and not decisive enough. He is half descent as a holding/ defensive midfielder, otherwise he shouldn't be starting. If Masherano stays, he shouldn't be starting. On the other hand I have high hopes for aquilani this coming season, I believe he will be like a new signing for us...

What about against Benfica eh? He showed he does have some attacking qualities he was an attacking player in his old club. Rafa molded him into a CDM for some god damn reason when the lad was about his attacking qualities. Now this season we have no idea what role he will play, but if not against Benfica or Lille you couldn't see has some attacking qualities then that's your choice but i'm not saying he's Kaka god forbid no. I think Lucas will be better in a pass and move team. I agree with Mick the axis with Lucas/Masch was horrendous but let's wait and see what he can do this season. Because for me he offers a bit of defensive and attacking qualities now.

[NANNY RED]

Me too Red, if we can improve from where he took over, both in terms of finishing position and in terms of the football we offer up, then I think you've got to give to give the guy a bit of credit and kudos. I actually live in hope that we may surprise a few people (including ourselves) and dramatically improve, but to say if he doesn't get fourth "any LFC fan will be asking for Roys head" is silly talk.

Now Man City are up there, getting in the top four isn't the relative shoo in it used to be, whoever is the manager and however money he's got to spend. Given our circumstances, such achievements ought to be what we hope for and not we demand.

Liverpool fans will know instinctively if this is the man to carry on the mantle Mick .. over the course of a  season you  either develop an  affinity with the manager or you don't  but if Roy has the team playing with style then he will win more friends than enemies mate and that's regardless if we make 4th or not ... Hope springs eternal

Sums it up for me that what youve just said Red,

[laza]

Liverpool fans will know instinctively if this is the man to carry on the mantle Mick .. over the course of a  season you  either develop an  affinity with the manager or you don't  but if Roy has the team playing with style then he will win more friends than enemies mate and that's regardless if we make 4th or not ... Hope springs eternal

That sums it very well for me as well

Regardless of whoever took over, my expectations were always going to be lower then if incumbent manager had remained.

Call it bedding down, the political honeymoon period whatever.
While Im certainly expecting us to challenge at least for a CL spot and I wont be happy if we dont grab one of those spots.

However I wouldnt  be calling for a new manager's head after one season if we dont achieve CL qualification.

[shawnk]

Liverpool fans will know instinctively if this is the man to carry on the mantle Mick .. over the course of a  season you  either develop an  affinity with the manager or you don't  but if Roy has the team playing with style then he will win more friends than enemies mate and that's regardless if we make 4th or not ... Hope springs eternal

That sums it very well for me as well

Regardless of whoever took over, my expectations were always going to be lower then if incumbent manager had remained.

Call it bedding down, the political honeymoon period whatever.
While Im certainly expecting us to challenge at least for a CL spot and I wont be happy if we dont grab one of those spots.

However I wouldnt  be calling for a new manager's head after one season if we dont achieve CL qualification.

Yes, agree!
He will be given the chance and certainly won't judge him after one season and I expect improvement from him as well.

[Owzat]

And surely any LFC fan will be asking for Roy's head should we not qualify for the CL again??

Obviously. Because any manager who can't jump 3 places in one season is sh!t. This applies even if he hasn't got any money to spend and some of his best players are likely to be sold from under his nose. If he doesn't get at least fourth and win two cups, he should be out on his ear.

May be three places, it is also seven points. Beat villa at home, Fulham at home and Wolves away and there are your seven points.

We should have finished fourth last season, no excuses. In fact we should have beaten Hull last game up and finished sixth, I think the doom and gloom would be relatively non-existent had we finished that one place higher, but we went out on a real low drawing at a relegated side.

I'm guessing if Woy had stayed at Fulham then people would talk about shifting 3-4 places up the table as very managable, even if it involved a lot more points - which four places for Fulham would (47 v 61) The teams above don't have to finish on as high a points, there are always results a team should have done better in, and in our case way too many poor results - Fulham (h), Wigan (a), Portsmouth (a), Wolves (a), Stoke (a), Hull (a), villa (h), Blackburn (a) etc

Did you know that had we beaten villa at home and Sunderland away as we probably should have, we'd have been on 24 points after 10 games and only two points behind on 08/09's start....................?

Premiership points by 1/4 season - 08/09 vs 09/10

01-10 : 08/09 26-18 09/10
Could have improved on a poor home defeat against villa, poor away defeat at Sunderland in 09/10

11-19 : 08/09 16-12 09/10
Away defeat at pompey, home draws against brum and citeh, and an away draw at Blackburn cost us in 09/10

20-28 : 08/09 16-18 09/10
Actually did better post-Christmas in 09/10, still could have won at Wolves and Stoke though

29-38 : 08/09 28-15 09/10
Hard to catch up two dropped points of 08/09, but could have won the drawn games at home to Fulham and away to brum and Hull, and could have done better than lose at Wigan.

So by halfway we could have been level had we won those very winnable five games that we didn't, even allowing no improvement on poor results against the top sides.

The last 1/4 of 08/09 was phenomenal, but with wins in the draws with Stoke, Wolves, Hull, Fulham and brum, and a win over Wigan away, and we'd have had a better second half than in 08/09.


The above is predominantly intended as a demonstration of where we went wrong and where extra points can be picked up without expecting to win at old trafford, COMS, the Emirates or Stamford Bridge. With the resources at his disposal should Rafa have guided us to so many defeats and losses to poor sides?!?!?

You can also see that in 08/09 we had a good and unbeaten start, if somewhat shakier than stats alone will show, add to that the 28 points from 30 gained during the run-in, and 54 of our 86 points came in just 20 games (2.7 per game) and only 32 in the other/middle 18. (1.78 per game)

[Ciggy]

It still hasnt sunk in yet, i still cannot believe he is our manager, and seeing him on the Anfield turf scarf aloft didnt look right for some reason 
I sometimes have gut feelings about things that wont work out the Robbie keane feeling thinkin Rafa was mad for signing him, I feel the same way about Roy.
I just dont think he will be a success, hope he proves me wrong but something doesnt feel right about the whole thing.

[Owzat]

It still hasnt sunk in yet, i still cannot believe he is our manager, and seeing him on the Anfield turf scarf aloft didnt look right for some reason 
I sometimes have gut feelings about things that wont work out the Robbie keane feeling thinkin Rafa was mad for signing him, I feel the same way about Roy.
I just dont think he will be a success, hope he proves me wrong but something doesnt feel right about the whole thing.

I guess the 'pessimists' have one consolation, they win either way. Either they will be proven right and Woy will flop, or they will be proven wrong and Woy will succeed.

Of course the battle is yet to commence in terms of what is accepted as 'success' and what is accepted as 'failure'. There has already been some in-fighting/debate as to expectations, some say we should now expect less and want to bury the days of us being a top four side - yet people like myself will often be labelled 'pessimists'

Woy does have the advantage of unknown factors which will no doubt be used to excuse failings, like if a player or two leave then that will be thrown in the mix (as usual) like the "boardroom shenanigans" were and "lack of funds" have been in the past and no doubt will be again.

If in doubt blame the owners

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Tonight's Liverpool Echo
LIVERPOOL manager Roy Hodgson has urged the club's supporters to be patient as he steps up his summer player hunt.

The Reds boss has yet to make any forays into the transfer market despite the Anfield side being continually linked with a host of names.

Only Milan Jovanovic has sealed a move to Merseyside since the end of the season, though the deal to bring the Standard Liege striker was already in place before Hodgson took over from Rafa Benitez.

Hodgson has hailed the arrival of the Serbian international striker, who scored against Germany in the World Cup, and hopes Jovanovic's signing will be the first of many.

Reds fans have been asked to trust that the manager will do his utmost in keeping the best of the current crop whilst adding quality from outside.

"We are working very hard on making certain the players we have at the club who you would call the 'good players' are going to be with us for next season," said Hodgson.

"The board are working very hard in that area. Some players are a bit disenchanted after what happened last season and we want to make sure we get that enchantment back.

"We are looking to add to and improve the squad, but I prefer not to talk or say what we are doing until we have something concrete to announce.

"We are being linked with players left, right and centre and it amuses me that we are sometimes linked with players we haven't even heard of.

"I have great faith in the Liverpool public that they will see through the snippets of information they may read in the newspapers, take it with a pinch of salt and wait for an official announcement.

"I'm very pleased we have got Milan," said Hodgson of the 29-year-old who us unlikely to feature against Al-Hilal on Saturday.

"He looks a very keen and enthusiastic player and it's good to have players who are desperate to play for the club.

"I was not responsible for signing him but I was pleased to hear the club had taken the initiative to get a player like him. I've seen him a lot during my time at Fulham and we were watching him.

"He's a natural wide player who can play through the middle. He's more of an attacking winger than a wide midfielder and he's a goalscorer. He scores goals for club and country and I'm sure we'll get a lot of use out of him.

"He scored in the World Cup, he's done well with Standard Liege at Champions League level, so he's no stranger to the big games.

"He only joined us last night, so I don't think we'll use him at the weekend. He looks fit, but at this stage I think I'd prefer to use the players we have been working with all through pre-season."



First match this Saturday under Hodgson's tutelage looking forward to seeing how we play , but apart from that he seems to be making all the right sounds when it comes to interviews I particularly warmed to this pearl
"I have great faith in the Liverpool public that they will see through the snippets of information they may read in the newspapers, take it with a pinch of salt and wait for an official announcement.... Now that could well be (on the playing side that is ) exactly what most fans wanted to hear from the man

[bigmick]

Naturally there's nothing you can do about it if your gut feeling tells you to fear the worst, and nor should you try. I know exactly what people mean when they say things like that, sometimes you're just about certain things are going to work out and sometimes you're equally certain they aren't.

The good thing in such situations is that although we can probably all think of examples of times when our gut feelings have been on the money, equally (certainly from my point of view anyway) I can remember numerous times when my own gut feelings have been miles off.

What's probably in Roys favour is that given where we are upon him taking over, and given our widely reported financial situation, expectations are reasonably low. If for instance we finish fifth and play some decent football, and perhaps a signing or two works out, it would need a harsh critic to say he's been a disaster. Equally, if we got a sniff of the title and finished third, he'd be hailed as something of a hero. Funnily enough, if he didn't improve on last seasons finishing position (even if we sold Masherano without replacing him/having the cash to spend) I would consider it a poor first effort.

I'm probably more optimistic than most because of course I didn't think the previous manager was maximising our resources. I think if we hadn't gone with the Lucas/Masherano axis, we would definately have finished in the first four last season. Now the new manager has got the same boardroom bullsh!t, but as I guess one of his advocates I won't be using that as an excuse. He'll have little or no money to spend, but I won't be using that as an excuse either. He'll also have Torres injured for at least some of the season, but ditto.

I think we will improve on last season, and if we keep all our players I can think we can launch a bit of a title push. I understand those who don't think that, they well be right, but hopefully they aren't.

[Reg]

Hangeland is the one most rated, but even then he is 29 and not exactly young so is that such a wide move given his reputation and value to Fulham as a pivotal player will push the asking price up? In an ideal world you don't want to be signing players much past their 27th birthday, that means you could/should get a good 3-5 years out of them. On that basis it is slim pickings indeed, Stockdale, Kelly, Stoor, Dikagacoi and E.Johnson which ain't a whole lot of quality

A pleasant and refreshing surprise Woy isn't going to go back to Fulham, some decent journeymen that can do a job ata club like that but not here. Shame Souness didn't realise the same when he came back to Anfield and brought some rubbish with him. On the flip side, find me a man(ager) who'd come to a new job and not want it to be HIS squad and who is comfortable outside his comfort zone, the known and trusted tend to be where we look first.

What always worries me when people start talking about bringing in managers like Woy who have managed at moderate clubs and whose success is measured with much lower expectations, is whether they know the next market up. That is to say giving a manager say £10m to spend in a summer reduces their options so they bargain hunt, but if you then give him £30m-£40m how does he adapt to that shift in focus? Sure we'd like him to seek out bargains, but bargains of a different kind. Last thing we really want is him seeking out say Wigan or brum players who he admired and wanted at Fulham but maybe were just out of his price range, or didn't want to go to Fulham, which is no better than him having signed them there and then bring them here.

Owzat
Could you stop ferring to our new manager as "Woy" please?
Its disrespectful and offensive.
Thanks

Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy

Woy of the Wovers.
Wobin Hood.
Little Wed Widing Hood.
Wed Wum.


Wuddy wubbish, get on with life you wet blouse.

[Bad Bob]

Hangeland is the one most rated, but even then he is 29 and not exactly young so is that such a wide move given his reputation and value to Fulham as a pivotal player will push the asking price up? In an ideal world you don't want to be signing players much past their 27th birthday, that means you could/should get a good 3-5 years out of them. On that basis it is slim pickings indeed, Stockdale, Kelly, Stoor, Dikagacoi and E.Johnson which ain't a whole lot of quality

A pleasant and refreshing surprise Woy isn't going to go back to Fulham, some decent journeymen that can do a job ata club like that but not here. Shame Souness didn't realise the same when he came back to Anfield and brought some rubbish with him. On the flip side, find me a man(ager) who'd come to a new job and not want it to be HIS squad and who is comfortable outside his comfort zone, the known and trusted tend to be where we look first.

What always worries me when people start talking about bringing in managers like Woy who have managed at moderate clubs and whose success is measured with much lower expectations, is whether they know the next market up. That is to say giving a manager say £10m to spend in a summer reduces their options so they bargain hunt, but if you then give him £30m-£40m how does he adapt to that shift in focus? Sure we'd like him to seek out bargains, but bargains of a different kind. Last thing we really want is him seeking out say Wigan or brum players who he admired and wanted at Fulham but maybe were just out of his price range, or didn't want to go to Fulham, which is no better than him having signed them there and then bring them here.

Owzat
Could you stop ferring to our new manager as "Woy" please?
Its disrespectful and offensive.
Thanks

Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy

Woy of the Wovers.
Wobin Hood.
Little Wed Widing Hood.
Wed Wum.


Wuddy wubbish, get on with life you wet blouse.

An important addition to the discussion five days on? 

[bigmick]

A nice quote from our new manager:

“I always tell my players what I want them to bring to the team. Their job then is to interpret the roles they have been given. I would always hope my players are happy because I am a great believer in putting round pegs in round holes. If you move players around and play them out of position, then there is a risk they might react negatively.”
BBC, 23 June 2010

[Thommo's perm]

Hangeland is the one most rated, but even then he is 29 and not exactly young so is that such a wide move given his reputation and value to Fulham as a pivotal player will push the asking price up? In an ideal world you don't want to be signing players much past their 27th birthday, that means you could/should get a good 3-5 years out of them. On that basis it is slim pickings indeed, Stockdale, Kelly, Stoor, Dikagacoi and E.Johnson which ain't a whole lot of quality

A pleasant and refreshing surprise Woy isn't going to go back to Fulham, some decent journeymen that can do a job ata club like that but not here. Shame Souness didn't realise the same when he came back to Anfield and brought some rubbish with him. On the flip side, find me a man(ager) who'd come to a new job and not want it to be HIS squad and who is comfortable outside his comfort zone, the known and trusted tend to be where we look first.

What always worries me when people start talking about bringing in managers like Woy who have managed at moderate clubs and whose success is measured with much lower expectations, is whether they know the next market up. That is to say giving a manager say £10m to spend in a summer reduces their options so they bargain hunt, but if you then give him £30m-£40m how does he adapt to that shift in focus? Sure we'd like him to seek out bargains, but bargains of a different kind. Last thing we really want is him seeking out say Wigan or brum players who he admired and wanted at Fulham but maybe were just out of his price range, or didn't want to go to Fulham, which is no better than him having signed them there and then bring them here.

Owzat
Could you stop ferring to our new manager as "Woy" please?
Its disrespectful and offensive.
Thanks

Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy Woy

Woy of the Wovers.
Wobin Hood.
Little Wed Widing Hood.
Wed Wum.


Wuddy wubbish, get on with life you wet blouse.

An important addition to the discussion five days on? 

Indeed
Pathetic isnt it?

[Reg]

Dont take yourself so seriously son... who are you to tell us what we can and cant call the manager??

That luxury was destroyed in the last 12 months.

[metalhead]

A nice quote from our new manager:

“I always tell my players what I want them to bring to the team. Their job then is to interpret the roles they have been given. I would always hope my players are happy because I am a great believer in putting round pegs in round holes. If you move players around and play them out of position, then there is a risk they might react negatively.”
BBC, 23 June 2010

Its great that he is saying such things mate - but talking doesn't get you results, action does.