Liverpool FC Forum

[AB's Red Army]

He was prepared to pay 6.7 million pounds for a 29 year old who hasn't had a decent season in 2 years.

To top it all off he[Heinze] captained Man Utd at one point in the past three seasons.

It was always going to be difficult to sign him, whether it been a legal issue or not.

He has 5 days to find a decent replacement and sign him. Quality options are scarce as they have either been signed by other clubs or are not going to move.

In all it is his fault. A better option should had been scouted and signed already [other than Heinze].

All along it was obvious that we needed another centerhalf or two for cover for Carragher and Agger. The injury to Carragher has made this even more blatantly obvious.

And lets say that Benitez does find a defender before the window closes, it will still take him a while to settle at the back. A hell of a lot longer than it would had the player been signed last month or the month before.

As I said, Rafa has made a mistake.

[LFC2007]

The issue of his ability and quality and at a price of £6.8m is a separate issue.

I personally think he represented a good piece of business, so did many many others, including most pundits.

It was always going to be difficult to sign him - obviously, but on the advice of legal experts he was confident of a favourable outcome.

He HAD to wait up until that point, had he signed another player in the meantime we may not have had the funds to complete the Heinze deal should it have been ratified.

There is no fault on his part, to say he was at fault is ignorant of the situation.

[AB's Red Army]

The issue of his ability and quality and at a price of £6.8m is a separate issue.

I personally think he represented a good piece of business, so did many many others, including most pundits.

It was always going to be difficult to sign him - obviously, but on the advice of legal experts he was confident of a favourable outcome.

He HAD to wait up until that point, had he signed another player in the meantime we may not have had the funds to complete the Heinze deal should it have been ratified.

There is no fault on his part, to say he was at fault is ignorant of the situation.

Ronaldo and Rooney would be good pieces of business for us too, does that mean we should sign them both?

The history between two clubs is clear and there is a reason why only one player has moved from Manchester to Liverpool ever. [Who hardly made any impact what so ever after his move here].

Business between us and them should not be done in my opinion. They were never going to make it easy for us regardless of who we wanted to sign [even if it was Darren Fletcher or John O'Shea]. I would expect the same from us if the situation was reversed between us and them.

The quoted price is far too much for a player who has been hit with injuries in the last two years and has been poor since his first successful year at United.

Going for Heinze in the first place was a mistake in it's own. As I already explained, and due to his involvement in the Copa America, was always going to prolong the transfer as well.

There were far other better options for us to sign in June and July.

Benitez miscalculated the situation between Heinze and United, and he's made a mistake.

We've been crying out for cover for our centerbacks for two transfer periods. Paletta was never enough as he lacked the experience to come in, and then proved that he lacked the quality. Hyypia was the only real possibility but he alone wasn't enough as the season is far too long.

If you wish we can debate this matter until the blues across the park are no longer bitter.

[LFC2007]

Ronaldo and Rooney would be good pieces of business for us too, does that mean we should sign them both?

The history between two clubs is clear and there is a reason why only one player has moved from Manchester to Liverpool ever. [Who hardly made any impact what so ever after his move here].

Business between us and them should not be done in my opinion. They were never going to make it easy for us regardless of who we wanted to sign [even if it was Darren Fletcher or John O'Shea]. I would expect the same from us if the situation was reversed between us and them.

The quoted price is far too much for a player who has been hit with injuries in the last two years and has been poor since his first successful year at United.

Going for Heinze in the first place was a mistake in it's own. As I already explained, and due to his involvement in the Copa America, was always going to prolong the transfer as well.

There were far other better options for us to sign in June and July.

Benitez miscalculated the situation between Heinze and United, and he's made a mistake.

We've been crying out for cover for our centerbacks for two transfer periods. Paletta was never enough as he lacked the experience to come in, and then proved that he lacked the quality. Hyypia was the only real possibility but he alone wasn't enough as the season is far too long.

If you wish we can debate this matter until the blues across the park are no longer bitter.

The Rooney and Ronaldo point is devoid of any relevance. Heinze was a realistic target, a player who wanted to join us more than anyone else and not a £30m winger who we would have no chance of signing, who is a regular, who would never want to join us.

But Like I said, the issue of his ability and price is separate.

I firmly believe he is a quality player, a solid premiership player with experience. A player who would not take a great deal of bedding in.


Rafa has not made a mistake, he tried to sign a quality player who fit the bill.

You seem to be ignorant of the facts, it was not a 'history' argument. So fecking what there has been minimal business between us and the mancs. It was a matter of legality, not "it's the fecking mancs, it ain't gonna happen".

He trusted the expertise of the lawyers, he is not at fault, the lawyers are.

He could have signed a player earlier - not many if any at all anything like the quality of Heinze.

[AB's Red Army]

The Rooney and Ronaldo point is devoid of any relevance.

Really? So if Rooney and Ronaldo were available for a certain price due to an agreement between them and United, we should sign them?

Or does the matter that they play for United flown passed your head?

The very fact that Heinze is a United player and that he was wishing to sign for a rival club, says it all about his mentality and character as a footballer. Even though he's a foreign player, in three years he should know that a move like that should not happen.

He had a great year in his first season, about three years ago. Since then he's been shocking, for club and country. A liability whenever he played in that period for United at the back.

There were other quality players with a lot less commotion surrounding the player i.e. Sylvan Distin who went to Pompey on a free. [Who would had been a more than good enough back up for us]. There's was also Vedran Ćorluka, a talented player who can play anywhere at the back and early in his 20's.

You seem to be ignorant of the facts, it was not a 'history' argument. So fecking what there has been minimal business between us and the mancs. It was a matter of legality, not "it's the fecking mancs, it ain't gonna happen''

Read my previous post, I made a point that it was going to be difficult for us to sign a Man United player IRRELEVANT of whether or not there was a legal issue or not.

You can only look after the issue has been resolved regarding Heinze's situation, that United are willing to force the issue of us tapping Heinze up even though they have been guilty of it year after year.

Benitez made a mistake in his judgment when he went for Heinze. He was a good player, but he's been injury prone and for the price he was quoted at [with only 1 season remaining on his contract.

He's not any player, he's a Manc and Rafa should had never went for him. He was too naive to think that the transfer was going to be quick and easy.

When it was made clear that Heinze missed the opportunity to buy out his contract, our interest in him should had been ended and moved on to another option. -------> Rafa's mistake.

By all means continue.

[LFC2007]

The Rooney and Ronaldo point is devoid of any relevance.

Really? So if Rooney and Ronaldo were available for a certain price due to an agreement between them and United, we should sign them?

Or does the matter that they play for United flown passed your head?

The very fact that Heinze is a United player and that he was wishing to sign for a rival club, says it all about his mentality and character as a footballer. Even though he's a foreign player, in three years he should know that a move like that should not happen.

He had a great year in his first season, about three years ago. Since then he's been shocking, for club and country. A liability whenever he played in that period for United at the back.

There were other quality players with a lot less commotion surrounding the player i.e. Sylvan Distin who went to city on a free. [Who would had been a more than good enough back up for us]. There's was also Vedran Ćorluka, a talented player who can play anywhere at the back and early in his 20's.

You seem to be ignorant of the facts, it was not a 'history' argument. So fecking what there has been minimal business between us and the mancs. It was a matter of legality, not "it's the fecking mancs, it ain't gonna happen''

Read my previous post, I made a point that it was going to be difficult for us to sign a Man United player IRRELEVANT of whether or not there was a legal issue or not.

You can only look after the issue has been resolved regarding Heinze's situation, that United are willing to force the issue of us tapping Heinze up even though they have been guilty of it year after year.

Benitez made a mistake in his judgment when he went for Heinze. He was a good player, but he's been injury prone and for the price he was quoted at [with only 1 season remaining on his contract.

He's not any player, he's a Manc and Rafa should had never went for him. He was too naive to think that the transfer was going to be quick and easy.

When it was made clear that Heinze missed the opportunity to buy out his contract, our interest in him should had been ended and moved on to another option. -------> Rafa's mistake.

By all means continue.

I fail to see your point about Rooney and Ronaldo.

We are not looking for a player in their positions, Man U don't want to sell them, not to us, not to anyone. They are regulars, they are young, they do not want to move.

Heinze wanted to join us, we were searching for someone in his position, he would not have cost £30m. If the opportunity to sign Ronaldo turned up, and it suited us, then yes I would support us signing him.


There is just no relevance to your point. Heinze was realistic, Rooney and Ronaldo are not.

The very fact that Heinze wanted to join us suggests he has balls, and suggests that he really wants to play football. His persistence suggests he has a great attitude. He's not to know that a move to us should not happen, it happens in Spain, Italy, France and Germany.

As I said, I will say it again, the issue of his ability is not the issue we are discussing, we've had two threads devoted to that already. The issue is the matter of timing, assuming in Rafa's position and most people's opinions that he is a more than worthwhile signing.

The crux of your argument is that because heplayed for the mancs we should never even have considered signing him, news to you, many people are not of that opinion and I concur with them, ever heard of "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face"?



To sum up, it was not Rafa's mistake. In your view, because you think he is sh!t, it was a mistake.

Ohand that opportunity to buy out his contract that you refer to, it has to be to a different football association - so it could not have happened anyway under the present rules.


By all means continue.....

you'll only end up going around in circles

I'm off to bed, enjoy your rant.

[AB's Red Army]

The very fact that Heinze wanted to join us suggests he has balls, and suggests that he really wants to play football. His persistence suggests he has a great attitude. He's not to know that a move to us should not happen, it happens in Spain, Italy, France and Germany.

It suggests he has no loyalty.

He wasn't going to get a guaranteed spot here and would had been fighting for a position just like was in Manchester.

As much as football has changed through out the years and we've changed as a club through those times, some traditions should not be thrown away just like that. Especially for a player like Heinze who has been over evaluated,under performing and injury prone.

Edit-] I made a mistake, I misread your statement regarding the dealings between rival clubs in Europe. [Original post contained a list of players who have moved between rival clubs in Italy and in Spain]

As I said, I will say it again, the issue of his ability is not the issue we are discussing, we've had two threads devoted to that already. The issue is the matter of timing, assuming in Rafa's position and most people's opinions that he is a more than worthwhile signing.

The crux of your argument is that because heplayed for the mancs we should never even have considered signing him, news to you, many people are not of that opinion and I concur with them, ever heard of "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face"?

I could care less how many threads you've had regarding Heinze. I was not involved in any of those discussions nor was I present at the time to have read them. In general I could care less.

If you bothered reading my posts properly, you would had realized that being a United player is not the crux of my argument. It's one of the reasons we shouldn't had shown interest, and the other is the fact that he's no where as good as he once was.

Rafa is a great manager and I've defended him on various occasions, but that doesn't mean his judgment is spot on regarding every player.

I'm not one of the people who were for the signing of Heinze. There was a vast amount of people who were against the signing of a United captain-armband wearing player.

I hate to repeat myself, so you can re-read my posts once more if you need to.

If we end up with no new central defenders, it will be Rafa's fault and no one else's. He had enough time to bring 2 back ups let alone one.

[lio]

Perhaps we don’t need another CD today. Not pressing the panic button yet for me.
It’s just coincidental or a temporary set back to have carra & hyypia injured on the same match last sat against a bunch of alley cats. Time will heal and fast with modern sports medic today. Anyway, hyypia is ok for tue CL, rite? Also it’s not like we do not have any replacement inside our existing huge squad of potentials (even aurelio is already back in training) to throw in a decent security around reina. Besides it’s now the time we got to learn to cope with crisis that will surely come with injuries and suspensions to any of our key players in the months ahead. It's a wake-up call today you can said. Afterall, down the road we got Derby, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Wigan before meeting Spurs on sun oct7 when hopefully Carra will be back in top form then. We just saw our dear ‘Momo the MOM’, when call upon in replacement for Gerard and given that responsibility, came in to performed and shut out lots of his critics. And result? ... we pocketed 3 pts and that's in support to my argument.

[JoeTerp]

Finnan   Hyypia    Agger   Arbeloa
Finnan   Hyypia     Agger   Riise
Finnan  Arbeloa     Agger   Riise
Finnan   Hobbs    Agger     Arbeloa

And I will point out again we have toulouse, Derby, Pompey away, Birmingham, and Wigan away are our next opponents.  Pompey is the only one that worries me in the slightest in which I would make sure that the first back 4 listed played.  Other than that, any of those options should be available for rotation and still be good enough to take full points.  If anything, it will force us to push the game more to try and score 3 or 4, which might help the team in the long run of the season.

[maypaxvobiscum]

It suggests he has no loyalty.

He wasn't going to get a guaranteed spot here and would had been fighting for a position just like was in Manchester.

As much as football has changed through out the years and we've changed as a club through those times, some traditions should not be thrown away just like that. Especially for a player like Heinze who has been over evaluated,under performing and injury prone.

to be honest with you, what happen was that when Heinze joined manure, he was in coma. couple of months ago he recovered and realized Liverpool are the bigger club.

so what if he played for the mancs? Ince and Beardsley were good signings IMO. Heinze is an Argie. He isnt a c*nt whose surname is neville or scholes. his agent was always trying to propose a move away from manure from the very first season.

he told red-nose to either double his wages or set him off.

[MightyLFC]

Carra has a collapsed lung our for about 6 weeks 

Were you here that ?

[Scottbot]

Puts requisite Hard Hat on....


How about Paul Scharner of Wigan?


"Liverpool have made the best summer signings, and they are a club I'd be very interested in joining."

Hate quoting anything from this site..(tribal) But the fella is attributed with saying it. Allegedly, so ive heard, apparantly....

Any good? No? Take me hat off yet.....

   

No need for the hard hat Red, that (in my book) is not such a bad idea, highly underated and most likely Wigan's best player. He's good in the air, good on the ball, scores a few goals and is as hard as nails.

As for Ciggy's suggestion of a Crouch - Richards swap deal, it's actually a pretty nice idea. I don't think (regretfully) that Crouch will see a lot of playing time this season and envisage him reluctantly asking to leave in Jaunuary or the summer. However, i also doubt there is such a clause in richards contract, it would have been activated by now if that were the case. When it happens, he will go for SILLY SILLY money.

Someone suggested Sol Campbell, also not a bad shout. Again it wouldn't cost a great deal and i imagine he would jump at the chance, not sure Pompey would be particularly accomodating mind.

Sissoko? Several posters laughing at this idea but i reckon he would probably do an ok job at the back. He's strong, he's quick and he attacks the ball although you would worry about him staying on his feet plus his heading.

but Mick's probably right about an un-known coming over from La Liga (Pellegrino style) for a nominal fee as cover

[Anfield rapper]

Like Richards, I don't think we would get Sol Campbell because he knows in 6 weeks time he will be on the bench. At the moment he is doing well at pompey and even ooking at getting back into the England squad i can't see why he would put that at risk. No, i think if rafa is going to get anybody in it will be someone who see's moving here as a once in a career chance to play at a big club.

[HacksawJimDuggin]

I agree with an earlier poster that we should have gone for Distin when he was available and i also agree that Sol Campbell would be the ideal choice at the moment. I was also thinking maybe Curtis Davies but looks like West Brom are looking for a lot of cash for him!

Rafa will probably look abroad and have his eye on someone as we speak. If not then we'll just need to cope. Hobbs will probably play on Tuesday night if Sami ain't fit.

[Rafa D]

We went for Distin but he said he felt he would have better opportunities at Portsmouth and he has already verbally agreed a deal with Harry Redknapp anyways.

Before these 2 injuries to Carra and Sami, I was assuming we were going to go for another defender after the whole Heinze debacle, but I felt we would go for primarly a left back. Its now obvious a covering centre back is needed.

Not arsed who and not going to try and guess but I'm sure Rafa has someone lined up, if not, its his problem.