Liverpool FC Forum

[sixbuster]

He needed the move, wasn't going to  develop any further where he was. Good luck to hom.

[JoeTerp]

don't understnad the use of the word "lazy"  Surely it involes more effort to scout THE GLOBE than the Championship.  Wasn't David Nugent a young guy in the Championship who was banging in bags of goals? he hasn't done fe.ck all at Pompey. If scouting the Championship worked, than more top clubs would be doing it.  Also, with how competitive that league is and all the money in british football in general, its still going to take more money than its worth to pluck a young star out of the championship

Yes teams like Arsenal do scout the Phenoms from there like Walcott or Ramsey, but they were hardly proven players, and they still had to pay very risky prices for them, and I think we were in the running for Ramsey.


Anyway Mick you should read the recent interviews with the new Barca youth coaches. All they talk about is bringing in English players for the first team. They harp on it so much, that I was starting to feel bad for the foreign youngsters, wondering if they would be coached as well.

[Nando26]

Good stuff. Players like Nemeth need more than ressie footy if their going to develope in to quality first team players.
We should be doing more of these.

In theory yes but how many players who have been out on loan come back and been a force in the first team? I struggle to think of any.

Agreed. Fowler hit 5 goals on his home debut for us when he was 18. Owen scored on his home debut when he was 17. Nemeth is 20? or 21?
And if Rafa think he isnt good enough even for being on a substitute bench, then our hope of him turning good will be very low.
I saw him played against S'pore and he reminds me of Fowler,
really disappointed to see him being loan out again.

Get what your saying mate but they didnt have Torres infront of them & also the league has far more quality running through it then when the players mentioned were breaking through

i dont think nemeth (well i know) he will never be as good as Fowler & gimp but he could do a job like the norway manchild did for man ure

[bunglemark2]

don't understnad the use of the word "lazy"  Surely it involes more effort to scout THE GLOBE than the Championship.  Wasn't David Nugent a young guy in the Championship who was banging in bags of goals? he hasn't done fe.ck all at Pompey. If scouting the Championship worked, than more top clubs would be doing it.  Also, with how competitive that league is and all the money in british football in general, its still going to take more money than its worth to pluck a young star out of the championship

Yes teams like Arsenal do scout the Phenoms from there like Walcott or Ramsey, but they were hardly proven players, and they still had to pay very risky prices for them, and I think we were in the running for Ramsey.


Anyway Mick you should read the recent interviews with the new Barca youth coaches. All they talk about is bringing in English players for the first team. They harp on it so much, that I was starting to feel bad for the foreign youngsters, wondering if they would be coached as well.

LOL !
Haven't we just recruited this year a former Barca U-17 manager ? And now, from what you're saying, they're picking up the English lads over at Barca...

Have a look at LFC.TV for a recent interview with the man...

[Nando26]

For me, Nemeth was always going to go on loan. Maybe the Championship would have been better than Greece, maybe not, but this is part of the deal to bring in the new CB, so no use complaining.  I hope that he starts over there, and I hope he impresses.  But I have cooled on my hopes on him anyway.

I don't buy the argument that "when has anyone ever come back from being out on loan"  what is that supposed to mean exactly? that we shouldn't send people out on loan?  When has a loanee ever shown enough during their spells that we would have been interested in buying such a player if they weren't already on the books?  Seems to me the loan experience just exposes the player for what they are, which is more of an indictment on the academy, WHICH IS WHY IT WAS TOTALLY REVAMPED THIS OFF-SEASON.

Using a Karma argument, you would still have to say that we are punching above our weight in producing players. Gerrard is still a the club and he is in the top .00001% of footballers in the world, I don't think that is appreciated enough. And then Fowler and Owen were both world class strikers. Those expectations are too high imo, and there is no reason for them to be that high.  Better than Voronin, that is where the bar is for where the standard of our youngsters has to be in order to help out the team.  That seems like a reachable goal.

And what the hell with this "other than Insua" line  WTF do you mean other than Insua?  why doesn't he count, why isn't he enough?  It seems like Kelly is our backup RB this season too, thats pretty good.

yeah i find that funny next itll be other then insua & kelly

other then insua & & pachecho & pepper & wisdom.......

[aCe']

don't understnad the use of the word "lazy"  Surely it involes more effort to scout THE GLOBE than the Championship.  Wasn't David Nugent a young guy in the Championship who was banging in bags of goals? he hasn't done fe.ck all at Pompey. If scouting the Championship worked, than more top clubs would be doing it.  Also, with how competitive that league is and all the money in british football in general, its still going to take more money than its worth to pluck a young star out of the championship

Yes teams like Arsenal do scout the Phenoms from there like Walcott or Ramsey, but they were hardly proven players, and they still had to pay very risky prices for them, and I think we were in the running for Ramsey.


Anyway Mick you should read the recent interviews with the new Barca youth coaches. All they talk about is bringing in English players for the first team. They harp on it so much, that I was starting to feel bad for the foreign youngsters, wondering if they would be coached as well.

LOL !
Haven't we just recruited this year a former Barca U-17 manager ? And now, from what you're saying, they're picking up the English lads over at Barca...

Have a look at LFC.TV for a recent interview with the man...

[Nando26]

I don't really see a downside to this. He's joining a club in a league of decent standard where he'll have his chances to play regularly. A kid his age needs that.

The problem is that will be sitting on the bench most of the time, AEK have 3 strong strikers that are used regulary, altough 1 of them plays on the wings sometimes. Anyway, if he does get some regular first team football (I doubt that), that will help him improve. If not, than that's another waste of talents by Rafa. Good luck boy!

waste of talent by Rafa?

Rafa brought him to the club if he proves good enough Rafa will play him if not Rafa will get rid simple

[Nando26]

I just can't see the point of the academy any more, we don't produce anyone even close to the required talent and Rafa, for good or bad, is more interested in buying in players of a slightly better quality abroad. We might as well shut down the academy and spend the money on increased transfer budget or something.

You clueless idiot like,you really are!
Put a price on Stephen Gerrards head..Jamie Carraghers head?

How much does it cost to run the academy?
You could run the fuc'kin academy for 20 years and if only Gerrard came out of it,it would be money well spent!
FFS just shut up..you are nothing but a whinging auld git!

Every thread like,straight in.....we fail here,Rafa is cr@p,we are shi'te,Mancs are great blah blah fuc'kin blah!
The sooner you get your third card and get back to your hornby trainset the better..Idiot!

spot on mate

thiers far to many people on here who claim to spport liverpool yet everything that sills out of thier bitter mouth is negative

i keep saying mate people seem to think the academy is a lab were these test tube world class players are meant to be getting made

what should we do let them rent out an astro pitch every thursday to train?

thier mental

[JoeTerp]

Then what in God's name was the point in bringing the lad on the preseason tour (presumably, the theory being that he would get himself pretty well acquainted with lads he might hope, nay dream, of playing with during the coming season) and then farming the lad off to some back end of nowhere league where he is fourth in the pecking order for a start ?
a) He doesn't speak the language, unless for some bizarre reason a young Easter european lad like himself has a bizarre interest in learning Greek
b) He's what, 18 ? 19 ? In a team of established players, it's gonna be a helluva challenge to even get noticed...
c) Is the Greek league even remotely comparable to the Premiership, or the Championship ? Nah, didn't think so....

If it turns out that this loan move has come about of a desire to "sanity check" the Academy and the quality of the youngsters coming through, then bloody well say so, Rafa (and all your Spanish buddies !). Perhaps it's a case of "Well, we don't really know how good or bad our lads are, so let's take a shining star, send him off to make a name for himself, and THEN we'll know better....".

If he proves himself, then he's one more name to add to the list of excellent players past and present who came thru the ranks; if not, it just looks silly....

My guess is that he was on the tour to asses where he is in relation to the first team. My guess is that the best way to do this would be to have him train with and play with the rest of the first team.

He didn't speak English when we signed him, didn't stop us, I don't think it will be too much of a problem, I am sure some people in Greece can speak some English, and I hear that once you learn one foriegn language its a lot easier to learn another.

He turns 21 in January (he is 6 months older than N'Gog)

I bet its not too far off the championship, plus AEK play in the Europa League, and they have HUGE derbies in Athens. Plus, they have playoffs for European spots at the end of the season so he will get even more games against the top clubs

This would have nothing to do with the academy because Nemeth was never in the academy, and the academy has been completely revamped this summer anyway.

[JoeTerp]

don't understnad the use of the word "lazy"  Surely it involes more effort to scout THE GLOBE than the Championship.  Wasn't David Nugent a young guy in the Championship who was banging in bags of goals? he hasn't done fe.ck all at Pompey. If scouting the Championship worked, than more top clubs would be doing it.  Also, with how competitive that league is and all the money in british football in general, its still going to take more money than its worth to pluck a young star out of the championship

Yes teams like Arsenal do scout the Phenoms from there like Walcott or Ramsey, but they were hardly proven players, and they still had to pay very risky prices for them, and I think we were in the running for Ramsey.


Anyway Mick you should read the recent interviews with the new Barca youth coaches. All they talk about is bringing in English players for the first team. They harp on it so much, that I was starting to feel bad for the foreign youngsters, wondering if they would be coached as well.

LOL !
Haven't we just recruited this year a former Barca U-17 manager ? And now, from what you're saying, they're picking up the English lads over at Barca...

Have a look at LFC.TV for a recent interview with the man...

what? thats not what I am saying. Or at least not what I meant to say.

I have seen the interviews. It was with the former Barca coaches. They were saying what Rafa has told them, and what they also believe is that LIverpool needs players from Liverpool, or at least players from England to be in Liverpool's first team.  They also talked about how they have to train the players to learn how to play in Rafa's system and for how to play in the prem, which will be different from training the next Xavi's and Messi's on how to play in La Liga.

[redbeergoggles]

Hope he does well there - he has just recently signed a new contract as well - this year over their could help his development a lot

The only things the kid will develop in Greece are a deep suntan, an acceptance of ponytails on men and a distrust of all things Turkish.

  and the art of the Kebab

[bunglemark2]

Anyway Mick you should read the recent interviews with the new Barca youth coaches. All they talk about is bringing in English players for the first team. They harp on it so much, that I was starting to feel bad for the foreign youngsters, wondering if they would be coached as well

Fairy nuff mate. Got lost in translation there....

[LFC2007]

Some myths that needs busting. It's a fact that we do - and we more or less have to - pick up local and British talent, because FA youth recruitment policy dictates as much. Hence why our youth team is filled with local and British kids. After the age of 16 though, IIRC, said rules don't take effect insofar as the 90 minute rule doesn't apply. Hence why we're able to see a preponderance of foreign talent in the ressies. The question then is, why aren't those local lads from the under 16 age-groups progressing in numbers to the ressies and further to that, why haven't any over the past 10 years followed in the Gerrard, Mcmanaman, Owen and Fowler line of talent? To me, it goes without saying that if players of said ability are in the Academy at the ages of 15 or 16, they will get noticed and it follows that they should make the grade - who wouldn't notice that level of raw ability? It also goes without saying that of those who did come through to the first-team were only ever in the 'worth a look but obviously nothing special' category; Warnock, Guthrie for example. Most, however, ended up in the lower divisions: Peltier, Raven, Welsh, Otsemobor, Mannix, Potter  etc. etc.. as they didn't have the raw ability to make it at the top level and no amount of first-team action would have changed that. That's essentially because a player's necessary level of technical ability is determined a number of years earlier than 17, 18, 19, 20 - and that's why a vast number of YTS players are released before the ages of 16 and why a vast number never make it to the top level. You can't just take any local 16 year old footballer and claim they 'just need need the time to develop'; they have to have something a bit special about them. If on the whole these groups are distinctly average then as a manager you'd be quite silly to simply to hand them contracts on the basis that 'they're local ffs, they need a chance', when you have a much wider market to scour and the demands of a top club to meet. This is why every top Premier league club recruits from abroad, and in significant numbers, while also trying to lure the best 16+ British talent, in our case we tried it with Hobbs, Crowther, Anderson and the like, yet they weren't up to standard (though Anderson is decent). If they were, people wouldn't be complaining that we've been 'ignoring the local and British' base of talent, so these examples form an argument for selecting more carefully, rather than selecting more locally. And if you wonder why Arsenal are able to pick up players like Wilshere and Spurs Bostock, you might do well to acknowledge the fact that we could not have signed them, and that such are the rules, the larger catchment area the greater the opportunity to sign the best young players. Besides this is the added cost of British talent; we could not have afforded Walcott or Ramsey, so again they don't serve as examples of players we simply ignored because they weren't very fashionable. In fact, the entire idea that a fashionable perception drives our recruitment policy is utterly ridiculous.

[bunglemark2]

Some myths that needs busting. It's a fact that we do - and we more or less have to - pick up local and British talent, because FA youth recruitment policy dictates as much. Hence why our youth team is filled with local and British kids. After the age of 16 though, IIRC, said rules don't take effect insofar as the 90 minute rule doesn't apply. Hence why we're able to see a preponderance of foreign talent in the ressies. The question then is, why aren't those local lads from the under 16 age-groups progressing in numbers to the ressies and further to that, why haven't any over the past 10 years followed in the Gerrard, Mcmanaman, Owen and Fowler line of talent? To me, it goes without saying that if players of said ability are in the Academy at the ages of 15 or 16, they will get noticed and it follows that they should make the grade - who wouldn't notice that level of raw ability? It also goes without saying that of those who did come through to the first-team were only ever in the 'worth a look but obviously nothing special' category; Warnock, Guthrie for example. Most, however, ended up in the lower divisions: Peltier, Raven, Welsh, Otsemobor, Mannix, Potter  etc. etc.. as they didn't have the raw ability to make it at the top level and no amount of first-team action would have changed that. That's essentially because a player's necessary level of technical ability is determined a number of years earlier than 17, 18, 19, 20 - and that's why a vast number of YTS players are released before the ages of 16 and why a vast number never make it to the top level. You can't just take any local 16 year old footballer and claim they 'just need need the time to develop'; they have to have something a bit special about them. If on the whole these groups are distinctly average then as a manager you'd be quite silly to simply to hand them contracts on the basis that 'they're local ffs, they need a chance', when you have a much wider market to scour and the demands of a top club to meet. This is why every top Premier league club recruits from abroad, and in significant numbers, while also trying to lure the best 16+ British talent, in our case we tried it with Hobbs, Crowther, Anderson and the like, yet they weren't up to standard (though Anderson is decent). If they were, people wouldn't be complaining that we've been 'ignoring the local and British' base of talent, so these examples form an argument for selecting more carefully, rather than selecting more locally. And if you wonder why Arsenal are able to pick up players like Wilshere and Spurs Bostock, you might do well to acknowledge the fact that we could not have signed them, and that such are the rules, the larger catchment area the greater the opportunity to sign the best young players. Besides this is the added cost of British talent; we could not have afforded Walcott or Ramsey, so again they don't serve as examples of players we simply ignored because they weren't very fashionable. In fact, the entire idea that a fashionable perception drives our recruitment policy is utterly ridiculous.

Jaysus mate....I thought you were gonna bust a blood vessel with that post. Did you come up for air at all ? 

[LFC2007]