Nemeth loaned out to aek

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Dazzer » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:42 pm

Number 9 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
heimdall wrote:I just can't see the point of the academy any more, we don't produce anyone even close to the required talent and Rafa, for good or bad, is more interested in buying in players of a slightly better quality abroad. We might as well shut down the academy and spend the money on increased transfer budget or something.

You clueless idiot like,you really are!
Put a price on Stephen Gerrards head..Jamie Carraghers head?

How much does it cost to run the academy?
You could run the fuc'kin academy for 20 years and if only Gerrard came out of it,it would be money well spent!
FFS just shut up..you are nothing but a whinging auld git!

Every thread like,straight in.....we fail here,Rafa is cr@p,we are shi'te,Mancs are great blah blah fuc'kin blah!
The sooner you get your third card and get back to your hornby trainset the better..Idiot!

Did I get carded for this Bob?? :D

Aye.  But fair play to Dazzer, he found the interesting football point you had buried in there and focused on that.  Nice one.  :nod

Sure card him too...ya have plenty to put about!! :)

BUT REF I WON THE BALL I WON THE BALL !!!!!!!!  :angry:
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Postby Number 9 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:26 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
heimdall wrote:I just can't see the point of the academy any more, we don't produce anyone even close to the required talent and Rafa, for good or bad, is more interested in buying in players of a slightly better quality abroad. We might as well shut down the academy and spend the money on increased transfer budget or something.

You clueless idiot like,you really are!
Put a price on Stephen Gerrards head..Jamie Carraghers head?

How much does it cost to run the academy?
You could run the fuc'kin academy for 20 years and if only Gerrard came out of it,it would be money well spent!
FFS just shut up..you are nothing but a whinging auld git!

Every thread like,straight in.....we fail here,Rafa is cr@p,we are shi'te,Mancs are great blah blah fuc'kin blah!
The sooner you get your third card and get back to your hornby trainset the better..Idiot!

Did I get carded for this Bob?? :D

Aye.  But fair play to Dazzer, he found the interesting football point you had buried in there and focused on that.  Nice one.  :nod

Pat on the back for you Robert,it must be a weekend well done!
A few steps closer to a forum that only complains about LFC can only be a good thing!

That card was uncalled for.....if you even read the thread there has been worse said!
You are succeeding though..keep up the good work!
You have my best wishes! :D
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:32 am

JoeTerp wrote:For me, Nemeth was always going to go on loan. Maybe the Championship would have been better than Greece, maybe not, but this is part of the deal to bring in the new CB, so no use complaining.  I hope that he starts over there, and I hope he impresses.  But I have cooled on my hopes on him anyway.

I don't buy the argument that "when has anyone ever come back from being out on loan"  what is that supposed to mean exactly? that we shouldn't send people out on loan?  When has a loanee ever shown enough during their spells that we would have been interested in buying such a player if they weren't already on the books?  Seems to me the loan experience just exposes the player for what they are, which is more of an indictment on the academy, WHICH IS WHY IT WAS TOTALLY REVAMPED THIS OFF-SEASON.

Using a Karma argument, you would still have to say that we are punching above our weight in producing players. Gerrard is still a the club and he is in the top .00001% of footballers in the world, I don't think that is appreciated enough. And then Fowler and Owen were both world class strikers. Those expectations are too high imo, and there is no reason for them to be that high.  Better than Voronin, that is where the bar is for where the standard of our youngsters has to be in order to help out the team.  That seems like a reachable goal.

And what the hell with this "other than Insua" line  WTF do you mean other than Insua?  why doesn't he count, why isn't he enough?  It seems like Kelly is our backup RB this season too, thats pretty good.

Good post that joe.
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Postby bunglemark2 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:49 am

Then what in God's name was the point in bringing the lad on the preseason tour (presumably, the theory being that he would get himself pretty well acquainted with lads he might hope, nay dream, of playing with during the coming season) and then farming the lad off to some back end of nowhere league where he is fourth in the pecking order for a start ?
a) He doesn't speak the language, unless for some bizarre reason a young Easter european lad like himself has a bizarre interest in learning Greek
b) He's what, 18 ? 19 ? In a team of established players, it's gonna be a helluva challenge to even get noticed...
c) Is the Greek league even remotely comparable to the Premiership, or the Championship ? Nah, didn't think so....

If it turns out that this loan move has come about of a desire to "sanity check" the Academy and the quality of the youngsters coming through, then bloody well say so, Rafa (and all your Spanish buddies !). Perhaps it's a case of "Well, we don't really know how good or bad our lads are, so let's take a shining star, send him off to make a name for himself, and THEN we'll know better....".

If he proves himself, then he's one more name to add to the list of excellent players past and present who came thru the ranks; if not, it just looks silly....
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Postby TheLad » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:31 am

bunglemark2 wrote:Then what in God's name was the point in bringing the lad on the preseason tour (presumably, the theory being that he would get himself pretty well acquainted with lads he might hope, nay dream, of playing with during the coming season) and then farming the lad off to some back end of nowhere league where he is fourth in the pecking order for a start ?
a) He doesn't speak the language, unless for some bizarre reason a young Easter european lad like himself has a bizarre interest in learning Greek
b) He's what, 18 ? 19 ? In a team of established players, it's gonna be a helluva challenge to even get noticed...
c) Is the Greek league even remotely comparable to the Premiership, or the Championship ? Nah, didn't think so....

If it turns out that this loan move has come about of a desire to "sanity check" the Academy and the quality of the youngsters coming through, then bloody well say so, Rafa (and all your Spanish buddies !). Perhaps it's a case of "Well, we don't really know how good or bad our lads are, so let's take a shining star, send him off to make a name for himself, and THEN we'll know better....".

If he proves himself, then he's one more name to add to the list of excellent players past and present who came thru the ranks; if not, it just looks silly....

Good post. Nemeth finally realizes that he will NEVER going to play for Liverpool, he better get used to the fact that Rafa is not planning to use him in the first team. For that, he should have maybe scored 6 not 2 in the pre season games. Feel sorry for the boy, never had a real chance to prove himself.
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Postby tubby » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:54 am

Reg wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:I don't buy the argument that "when has anyone ever come back from being out on loan"  what is that supposed to mean exactly? that we shouldn't send people out on loan? 

Joe what I'm saying is quite simple, no Liverpool player that has gone out on loan has come back and become a corner stone of the team or even a regular, until now, loan is the first foot out of the door.

Exactly. If he was that good or had that much potential Rafa would be using him instead of NGog.

Ill use Arsenal as an example. OK they pay a lot for some of their kids but a lot are that good they doplay in the first team from time to time, they are rarley loaned out.
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Postby tubby » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:55 am

TheLad wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Then what in God's name was the point in bringing the lad on the preseason tour (presumably, the theory being that he would get himself pretty well acquainted with lads he might hope, nay dream, of playing with during the coming season) and then farming the lad off to some back end of nowhere league where he is fourth in the pecking order for a start ?
a) He doesn't speak the language, unless for some bizarre reason a young Easter european lad like himself has a bizarre interest in learning Greek
b) He's what, 18 ? 19 ? In a team of established players, it's gonna be a helluva challenge to even get noticed...
c) Is the Greek league even remotely comparable to the Premiership, or the Championship ? Nah, didn't think so....

If it turns out that this loan move has come about of a desire to "sanity check" the Academy and the quality of the youngsters coming through, then bloody well say so, Rafa (and all your Spanish buddies !). Perhaps it's a case of "Well, we don't really know how good or bad our lads are, so let's take a shining star, send him off to make a name for himself, and THEN we'll know better....".

If he proves himself, then he's one more name to add to the list of excellent players past and present who came thru the ranks; if not, it just looks silly....

Good post. Nemeth finally realizes that he will NEVER going to play for Liverpool, he better get used to the fact that Rafa is not planning to use him in the first team. For that, he should have maybe scored 6 not 2 in the pre season games. Feel sorry for the boy, never had a real chance to prove himself.

I think he was supposed to be included a bit more in the 1st team last season but had an injury so im guessing he hasnt been as impressive since.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:20 am

It must actually be a very close thing from a cost point of view whether it is worth while running an academy. Keegan a good few years ago said it cost Newcastle £5million a year and scrapped the lot.

I suppose its 10 years or so since Gerrard and Carra came through, so in that time its probably cost us between £50 and 100 million for not much return at all. Could that money have been better invested in star players....... probably, but then you risk missing out on the next superstar.

If you think about it, most big clubs buy their goalkeepers, mainly because they need to be quite experienced before they can make it, and clubs just can't afford to let them gain that experience while fighting to stay at or near the top.  Same with Centre backs, they need time to develop physically (even Carra had to play full back for a few years)

The problem now is that clubs just can't afford to allow a player to gain experience in the first team if it may jepodise their chances of CL money, so its safer to buy a player with experience even if its just for a place on the bench!
So there is an argument for doing away with the academy and even the reserves and putting that money into a few "sure things" instead.
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Postby stmichael » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:26 am

This is an excellent move imo. He needs to be playing week in week out.
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Postby bigmick » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:42 am

When Keegan first said it S@int many laughed (as they did at lots of his pronuciations) but his idea isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. That said, like many things in football and in life, fashion comes into play and what seems like a great idea one minute, begins to fade as circumstances alter. I think much of our lack of success in producing players has been as a direct result of sticking too rigidly to a fashionable approach, and also in Rafa's case as a result of almost laziness where the youth ranks are concerned. Now I know sections of the forum will begin foaming at the mouth now and they won't bother reading beyond this point where I try and explain my point, but just for my own sanity I'll have a go anyway.

The "fashion" side of our approach is mirrored by most of the top clubs, in that we almost totally ignore the British Isles as a potentially fertile area for producing players. Yes no doubt someone will paste up a bunch of names, Richie Partridge, Lee Peltier, that bloke who got shot up the erse etc etc but to me many of these players are signed as an afterthought almost. When the nuggets are unearthed by the flow of time, the Aaron Ramsey's, the Theo Walcotts, the Jack Rodwells, the Jon Bostocks do we kick the door down to sign these kids? Are we willing to not only make the financial outlay which is often demanded, but do we commit to a programme whereby we genuinely move heaven and earth to give them an opportunity? Some will swear blind that we do, but for me the fact that the best British kid we have at the club is Jay Spearing is a damning indictment of the system as is. The best we have probably wouldn't feature in a top 200 over the last five years, so if we are genuinely doing our best then our best is a fecking disgrace.

On the question of not just fashion but laziness, I use the word quite deliberately and once again our manager is by no means alone. Nobody bothers it seems to me these days at looking at lower division players. Players such as Kevin Keegan, Ray Houghton, John Aldridge, Phil Neal etc etc etc (honestly you could name 100 of these players) all came out of the lower leagues, and it seems to me we along with other clubs are too lazy to find them, unearth them and develop them any more. Rob Jones came straight from Crewe into the Liverpool first team a couple of days later before being the man of the match at Old Trafford on his debut, going onto play for England before injury cruelly robbed him and us of what would have been a fantastic career. These days though clubs are too lazy, it's too easy to go to AZ Alkamaar and pick up a Honduran International, too convenient to raid the ranks of Locomotiv Leipzig for the up and coming left footer, too comfortable to take an Easyjet flight to Belgrade to check on the tricky right winger at Red Star.

It'll change though, as credit crunch becomes the new delayed gazelle. Suddenly the road to Damascus will become the road to Gresty Road as managers once again open their eyes to the gems which lie all around them, needing only a polish and some faith to become something special. People who have scoffed and told us that football has "changed" will watch on in awe as some of these players who are plucked from obscurity develop into top class stars. Because nobody will ever convince me the players aren't there if you look. The Tow Law Towns, the Cobh Ramblers and the like have produced players before, they will again if someone gives them a chance.
Last edited by bigmick on Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GYBS » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:02 pm

Hope he does well there - he has just recently signed a new contract as well - this year over their could help his development a lot
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Postby bigmick » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:25 pm

GYBS wrote:Hope he does well there - he has just recently signed a new contract as well - this year over their could help his development a lot

The only things the kid will develop in Greece are a deep suntan, an acceptance of ponytails on men and a distrust of all things Turkish.
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Postby GYBS » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:29 pm

Um ok ???
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Postby bunglemark2 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:16 pm

GYBS wrote:Um ok ???

I think Mick was injecting a bit of humour, mate...
Maybe you should try it. It'd work wonders for people's perception of you, as opposed to somebody who'd argure with (and insult) his own shadow....
Then again, perhaps that's just a perception....  :glare:
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Postby tubby » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:00 pm

Im sure Mick will be the first to change his tune if turns out to be a good move for him and ultimatley us so chill.
Last edited by tubby on Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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