Liverpool FC Forum

[kunilson]

Reina
Finnan       Carragher      Agger       Arbeloa
Pennant     Gerrard©         Alonso      Benayoun
                    Torres   Kuyt

[Sabre]

Bad Bob

* Gerrard received 22 votes at CM, 4 at RM and 4 at CAM (4-5-1)

** Mascherano did receive 15/30, including 4 to partner Alonso at CM when Gerrard was pushed over to RM

***Kewell won the LM sweepstakes by some distance despite not winning a majority of the votes.  The other LM votes broke down as follows: Riise 6/30, Babel 5/30, Benayoun 4/30, Pennant 1/30, Aurelio 1/30

So what does this tell us?

1) It tells us that there is significant consensus about the spine of the team: Reina, Finnan, Carra, Agger, Gerrard, Torres--with the possible inclusion of Arbeloa, Pennant and Alonso as well.

2) It highlights the problem areas, which I don't think come as any surprise: LM and to a lesser degree LB and second striker.  When a player that's been injured for the better part of the calendar year is selected in many people's Best 11, it says something about the job his replacements are doing.  At LB we've got a right-footed RB/CB winning the vote over two natural left backs.  At second striker, the high vote tally for Kuyt may read more as the best of a bad lot rather than a genuine vote of confidence.

3) It would also seem to suggest that we are more sure of the Best 11 than Rafa is, but hold on: here's Rafa's preferred line-up in the league, based on the teamsheets for the seven games so far.

It also means that we the posters tinker as much as Rafa. Because this research of yours says Alonso is favoured before Mascherano, and, when asked especifically that question a month ago, Mascherano was favoured in a poll, and he won it quite comfortably.

If you do this research in 2 months time, Mascherano might get more votes, Arbeloa dissapear from the line-ups, just like Voronin was said to be better than Kuyt when he scored, and now nobody remembers him in their line-ups.

Perhaps we the posters should stop the tinkering

[66-1112520797]

Alright folks, thirty "Best 11s" registered so far and there's a somewhat surprising (to me) consensus emerging.  So, without further ado, I present the tabulated Newkit best 11 (votes out of 30 in brackets).  By the way, I've gone with the standard 4-4-2 rather than some of the other formations suggested and I've put Gerrard at CM because, well, majority rules.

                              Reina
                             (30/30)

Finnan        Carragher              Agger              Arbeloa
(30/30)        (30/30)               (29/30)             (21/30)

Pennant       Gerrard                Alonso             Kewell
(22/30)        (30/30)*             (23/30)**         (13/30)***


                   Kuyt                  Torres
                  (20/30)               (30/30)


* Gerrard received 22 votes at CM, 4 at RM and 4 at CAM (4-5-1)

** Mascherano did receive 15/30, including 4 to partner Alonso at CM when Gerrard was pushed over to RM

***Kewell won the LM sweepstakes by some distance despite not winning a majority of the votes.  The other LM votes broke down as follows: Riise 6/30, Babel 5/30, Benayoun 4/30, Pennant 1/30, Aurelio 1/30

So what does this tell us?

1) It tells us that there is significant consensus about the spine of the team: Reina, Finnan, Carra, Agger, Gerrard, Torres--with the possible inclusion of Arbeloa, Pennant and Alonso as well.

2) It highlights the problem areas, which I don't think come as any surprise: LM and to a lesser degree LB and second striker.  When a player that's been injured for the better part of the calendar year is selected in many people's Best 11, it says something about the job his replacements are doing.  At LB we've got a right-footed RB/CB winning the vote over two natural left backs.  At second striker, the high vote tally for Kuyt may read more as the best of a bad lot rather than a genuine vote of confidence.

3) It would also seem to suggest that we are more sure of the Best 11 than Rafa is, but hold on: here's Rafa's preferred line-up in the league, based on the teamsheets for the seven games so far.

                               Reina
                               (7/7)

Finnan        Carragher              Agger              Arbeloa
(5/7)           (6/6)*                 (4/5)*               (7/7)**

Pennant       Gerrard                Alonso             Babel/Riise
(7/7)           (4/5)*                 (5/5)*            (3/7 each)


                   Kuyt                  Torres
                  (5/7)                   (5/7)

*number of available games reduced due to injuries
**Arbeloa's last two starts in the league have come at RB

Rafa's line-ups for the Champions League and the Carling Cup, of course, tell a different story but I think the above numbers suggest that Rafa's Best 11 is pretty close to ours and that he is playing those players in the league, by and large, while rotating more in the cup competition.

Food for thought, I think?

I'm doing your thing here then Bob "devils advocate"

While you have brought up an interesting stat Bob, I'm still not convinced by it. Basically because I know Rafa likes to tinker, pull out this thread at the end of the season and it may slightly be more muddled up.

Now (devil's advocate) say for a minute I agree that rotation isnt the problem. Then it has to be down to the players at the end of the day especially if their under performing (which they are also, no doubt). We have seen on their day they can beat anyone right.

But 'on their day' isnt consistent enough for us at the moment, so are our players capable enough of pulling out title wininng performances week in week out ? I'd like to think so, but are these players .... Pennant, Voronin, Crouch, Kuyt, Alonso, Arbeloa, Babel, Beneyoun 
and Aurelio all of which Rafa brought capable of doing this ?

And if yes why isnt it happening ?

[Cool Hand Luke]

In my opinion this is our best 11 when everyone is fit:

                         Reina

Finnan     Carragher     Agger     Aurelio

Gerrard   Mascherano   Alonso    Kewell

                Torres      Voronin

Reina is undisputed number 1

Carragher and Agger is another no brainier for me. Despite some people criticism of Agger, he is a quality player who is only going to get better.

Despite Arbeloa doing extremely well this season I would still go for Finnan as he has proved himself over a couple of seasons rather than a couple of games.

I really like Aurelio and think if he stays fit he can be a quality left back for us. Arbeloa has done well at left back but he not a natural lefty and Aurelio is very good on the ball and has a fantastic delivery from crosses.

A Mascherano and Alonso partnership would definitely be the most effective in term of ball retention in the centre of the park, something that is so important if you are going to be successful. This partnership would give Alonso the opportunity to dictate the play higher up the pitch and take control of the tempo of the game.

Gerrard had his best season in a red shirt on the right and I think a central midfield partnership of Mascherano and Alonso is the most beneficial for the team. Yes, Gerrard can be explosive through the middle and he doesn’t like playing on the right, but how often does him playing in the centre win us games? Not often enough compared to how often it affects the teams performance.

When were longing for Kewell to return to the first team you know it’s a sad state of affairs. When he plays he gives more to the team than anyone else can down the left, the rest our very poor options.

Torres is clearly streets ahead of our other strikers but there is not much between the rest of them. All could argue a case for partnering Torres but I would go for Voronin due to the fact that he picks up the best goal scoring positions out of all of them.

[R_us]

Reina

Finnan  Carra  Agger  Arbeloa

        Masch  Alonso

Pennant     Gerrard    Kewell
           
            Torres
i think this is the best choice...

[roberto green]

Reina

Finnan  Carra  Agger  Arbeloa

        Masch  Alonso

Pennant     Gerrard    Kewell
           
            Torres
i think this is the best choice...

Yes looks very good young Jedi

[weringo]

Reina

Finnan  Carra  Agger  Arbeloa

        Masch  Alonso

Pennant     Gerrard    Kewell
           
            Torres
i think this is the best choice...

You quite blatently copied my team   

[scoby]

This has to be our strongest team that gives us strenght in both attack and defence

                                      REINA

            ARBELODA            CARRA             AGGER

                                     MASCH

         GERRARD                                     ALONSO

                                BENYOUN


              TORRES                                  BABBEL

                                  VORONIN

[bigmick]

This has to be our strongest team that gives us strenght in both attack and defence

                                      REINA

            ARBELODA            CARRA             AGGER

                                     MASCH

         GERRARD                                     ALONSO

                                BENYOUN


              TORRES                                  BABBEL

                                  VORONIN

Scobes mate, erm, I don't think that line-up would necessarily work. I do agree with putting Reina in goal though so its a start at least.

[Leonmc0708]

Dont like doing these team speculation things, but I think our best 11 would be:

Pepe in goal
Finnan RB
Arbeloa LB
Carra and Agger CB's
Gerrard RM
Masch and Alonso CM's
Pennant LM
Babel and Torres Up Top

Anyone cares to do the spacing for that feel free.

[tubby]

I think Pennants not consistent enough to hold down a regular place.

Id have

Pepe in goal
Finnan RB
Riise LB
Carra and Agger CB's
Gerrard RM
Masch and Alonso CM's
Babel LM
Kuyt and Torres up front

I think Babel is better suited to a strikers role up front but Rafa wont play him there.

[Leonmc0708]

I think Pennants not consistent enough to hold down a regular place.

Id have

Pepe in goal
Finnan RB
Riise LB
Carra and Agger CB's
Gerrard RM
Masch and Alonso CM's
Babel LM
Kuyt and Torres up front

I think Babel is better suited to a strikers role up front but Rafa wont play him there.

Kewell for Pannant if he ever gets fit, but imagine Torres and Babel running at you !!!!

Also cant have Riise liiid.

[babu]

Dont like doing these team speculation things, but I think our best 11 would be:

Pepe in goal
Finnan RB
Arbeloa LB
Carra and Agger CB's
Gerrard RM
Masch and Alonso CM's
Pennant LM
Babel and Torres Up Top

Anyone cares to do the spacing for that feel free.

i was thinking it would be nice to have Gerrard out there again and Mesh & Alonso in the mid. I don't think we've done that yet (with Momo yes). Not permantly though (hahaha)

[LittleHobo]

i wanna see babel given a chance as support striker

his pace and shooting power need to be made the most of

[club_Levis]

Dont like doing these team speculation things, but I think our best 11 would be:

Pepe in goal
Finnan RB
Arbeloa LB
Carra and Agger CB's
Gerrard RM
Masch and Alonso CM's
Pennant LM
Babel and Torres Up Top

Anyone cares to do the spacing for that feel free.

Seconded.!!!