Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

yeah because most of the anti-alonsos wont post in here.

I hope you're wrong about this, Daws--we want the fullest possible spectrum of views in here.  The cry goes out frequently for Rafa to play his best 11 and I think it's time for people to put their cards on the table on just what they mean by that.  If we all more or less agreed I'd be very surprised so I'm curious to see in what areas of the pitch there's a consensus and in what areas there's a diversity of views.  Who knows, it might get us closer to a middle ground on the rotation issue by identifying the perceived untouchables vs. the perceived rotatables! 

[Graeme Noble]

Reina

Finnan     Carragher    Agger    Arbeloa


Pennant         Gerrard    Alonso     Babel


                   Kuyt        Torres

[Graeme Noble]

I know Babel hasn't been inconsistent, but he has quality. I would maybe play him up front, but i've never seen him in that position...YET...

[murphy0151]

Pepe

Finnan, Carra, Agger, Arbeola

Gerrard, Xabi, Mascherano, Babel

        Kuyt,  Torres

That is our best 11 looking from my shoes.

I dotn care what anyone says Gerrard has been shiiiiit since he had that injection, playing in the middle. 

His best season for us was playing from the right.

[weringo]

Reina

Finnan  Carra  Agger  Arbeloa

         Masch  Alonso

Pennant     Gerrard    Kewell
             
             Torres

Probably will never see that team but I believe those are the best 11 players we have.

It gives Gerrard the freedom he needs while keeping him in the middle of the park where he's most influential.

[Leonmc0708]

mascherano is probaly best in a midfield 3 as he is best winning the ball and passing it 5 yards

in a midfield 2 he has responsability to create and do something other than pass 5 yards

actually i would like to see 4-5-1 system again, playing gerrard in the aimar role, valencia style

................................Reina......................................

finnan.........carra.......................agger...............riise


....................alonso........................Mascherano


..................................Gerrard............................


Pennant..........................................................Benayoun



................................Torres..................................


wingers pushing quite far up field and gerrard as high up the pitch attacking mid

Thats 3 posts and not one mention of Valencia under Rafa or Pablo Aimar.

Whats up lad ?

[Leonmc0708]

John Arne Riise: People bang on about his long balls and say he can't defend. Rubbish, he can defend. Ok he's no Maldini or even Finnan, but he's solid enough, can win a header, put a tackle in and generally does a decent job. He's also capable of scoring a goal and overlapping should the player infront of him actually have any quality. He clearly players ALOT better when Harry Kewell is infront of him. He's a useful squad player at worst due to his versatility.

Stu mate, I know you are right on a couple of things here, but why are you championing an overweight average defender who cant run, cant pass and gets away with it for 20 games with a goal every 25 games ?

Alvaro Arbeloa: Good squad player who can fill in anywhere across the back four. Under no circumstances though should he be a first choice. He lacks the ability on the ball and lacks the intelligence to overlap. One of my main critisism's of Finnan in comparrison to Babbel was that Babbel used to fly, up and down the wing, Finnan doesn't do it enough, Arbeloa even less so. For more proof, watch the Birmingham game were we actually missed Finnan's overlaps, he overlapped Pennant once because Pennant screamed at him to do so. Still, fine where he is as a backup full back.

This lad has been the best of our back four this season, FACT.

Sami Hyypia: Still for me a better player than Agger and by quite a distance. People often accuse Sami of aimless hoofs, from what I've seen of him over the years I disagree, he tends to hoof when the midfield don't show for the ball. Alonso, takes the ball of Hyypia alot from the defence and I firmly believe that not having a natural left winger and Alonso not in the side often leaves Sami short of options other than to hoof the ball. At the end of the day, he's still the strongest and most arially dominant centre half we have, by some distance.

Hyypia has never been able to play a pass, not just in the last two seasons when his pace went. I can only assume what you have seen over the years has been highlights lad.

He is the best in the air, but he turns liek an oil tanker and has lost any pace he ever had.

[redtrader74]

Reina


   Finnan      Carra         Agger        Arbeloa
   (Arbeloa)                                 (Aurelio)


Gerrard      Alonso       Mascherano       Kewell
(Pennant)                (Gerrard)


                    Kuyt            Torres




This is the best team for me, the names in brackets are where i believe we could rotate without affecting the play and performance too much.  If Kuyt plays further up the pitch and expends his energy more like Torres, in the final third, i am sure he will score a lot more.

[Sabre]

Best eleven for CL final.

-------------------Reina----------------------

Finnan   Carra   Agger    Aurelio

-----------Alonso---------

Pennant Gerrard Mascherano Babel (sorry stu)

-----------Torres.


Gerrard doing what he does best, lurk the area, last passes, long shots, do danger where few midfielders know doing danger

Alonso starting the play, and Mascherano carrying the ball upwards and oxygenating the midfield when the opposition seeks number superiority.



Best eleven for a cold night in... in.. Birmingham (I imagine all the english nights equally cold )


----------Reina

Finnan  Carrra  Agger  Fabio Aurelio

Pennant Gerrard Alonso Benayoun

--------Crouch Torres---------


Depending on the game, Kuyt instad of Crouch (edited sorry)


P.S. I feel almost guilty for not including some players I really like, like Riise. Sissoko, Arbeloa, Hyypia are also good players and decent back ups under normal circunstances (unlike yesterday)

[Kharhaz]

Id go for:

GK - Reina
DR - Finnan
DL - Riise
DC - Carragher
DC - Agger
MC - Alonso
MC - Sissoko
MR - Gerrard
ML - Pennant
FC - Torres
FC - Crouch

Id choose Pennant on the left because I believe hes improved a lot since he first came here and hes more than happy playing on the left as hes stated on the lfc website. Sissoko also, he hasnt played well of late but it wasnt that long ago that the same people who are knocking him now were singing his praises. Gerrard on the right, hes had a good run of games in the center and hasnt done a lot to suggest that should be his permanent position, he scored a lot of goals playing on the right and he does create chances. Crouch up front, again hasnt played particularly well but then again who has? all he needs is a few games then we'll be seeing his all round hat trick again !

[bigmick]

I personally don't think what is the best eleven is really the issue. FWIW I wouldn't have any problem with most of what's been said on here, Bobs line-up looks good to me and Stu's critique on the squad is not far wrong for me. Obviously there is a tendency to over praise Sami and an unspoken desire to create a spot for Dean Ashton but it's a good post nonetheless.

I actually don't really mind what Rafa's favourite eleven is, whether he prefers Alonso or masherano, Kuyt or Crouch or whatever else. As long as his best eleven includes Reina, Carragher, Gerrard and Torres as a given, then I'm not going to fall out with him or anybody else over the make-up of the final starting eleven.

The issue though is continuity obviously. I know I've gone on about it but I think it's a really serious issue. Put it this way, if he continues to rotate at his present rate I think we will be out of the race for the League title by Christmas. If that is the case I think he will be replaced as the manager before the beginning of next season. I hope it isn't the case because Rafa has IMHO rebuilt this club from top to bottom and bought brilliantly, putting together a fantastic squad along the way for a fraction of what his rivals have spent. I have a hunch though that the owners will come to the conclusion that winning the title with the current number of changes per game is a physical impossibility. Though I regret to say it, I agree with them and I hope that long before it comes to that, Rafa at least gives the "change no more than one or two players a game, at the absolute most" option a try.

[Sabre]

Bad Bob, Redtrader and actually many posters seem to agree that Arbeloa should start.

Well at the end of the last season many wouldn't have considered it and we're not far deep in this season.

Not that the lad hasn't played well, he has indeed! but IMHO Fabio Aurelio, once fully fit, is a better player in many aspects of the game. And I think he'll be important for us this season, if injuries respect him.

[Fowler_E7]

GK.Reina
RB.Finnan        CB.Carragher     CB.Agger          LB.Riise
RM. Pennant    CM.Gerrard       CM.Alonso        LW.Kewell
                    CF.Torres         CF. Kuyt


I was a bit torn between putting Gerrard on the right and having Mascherano in the middle with Alonso because i thought Gerrard was excellent there a few years ago, but i decided to go for him in the centre as its his favoured and best position and you always want the most from your best player. Also having Pennant provides more width.

Alot of people probably wont agree with me putting Riise, Alonso and Kuyt in there, but ive gone with them for a few reasons. Aurelio and Riise was a close one but, i chose Riise because he's decent defensively and offensively and he provides a good goal threat(minimum 6 goals a season), and im a firm beleiver in having as many goalscorers on the pitch as possible, he also has great stamina and energy. Arbeloa and Aurelio are great back up though. Aurelio provides good passing and a great threat from set pieces, and Arbeloa is solid alround.

Ive chosen Alonso over Mascherano simply beacuse Alonso offers a lot more going forward, he can score, assist he reads the games well and can control the pace of the game, slowing it down and uping the tempo when needed. Mascherano is superier defensively but offers very little going forward, but is still an excellent player who will play an important role especially away from home.

Ive gone for Kuyt because of his movement, workrate which makes him a more ideal partner for Torres. Crouch i feel is probably finished with us now because Torres offers everything Crouch does plus so much more. Voronin im not sure on at the moment, he's an inteligent player but dosnt seem particular good at anything, just decent at everything though can pass and move quite well. I think we should be looking for another striker soon though, and be looking to move either Crouch or Voronin on, Also id like to see Babel and Benayoun given a chance up front to see how they do.

[roberto green]

Alvaro Arbeloa: Good squad player who can fill in anywhere across the back four. Under no circumstances though should he be a first choice. He lacks the ability on the ball and lacks the intelligence to overlap. One of my main critisism's of Finnan in comparrison to Babbel was that Babbel used to fly, up and down the wing, Finnan doesn't do it enough, Arbeloa even less so. For more proof, watch the Birmingham game were we actually missed Finnan's overlaps, he overlapped Pennant once because Pennant screamed at him to do so. Still, fine where he is as a backup full back.

John Arne Riise: People bang on about his long balls and say he can't defend. Rubbish, he can defend. Ok he's no Maldini or even Finnan, but he's solid enough, can win a header, put a tackle in and generally does a decent job. He's also capable of scoring a goal and overlapping should the player infront of him actually have any quality. He clearly players ALOT better when Harry Kewell is infront of him. He's a useful squad player at worst due to his versatility.

Jamie Carragher: Heart and soul, defends like a man possessed. Awful on the ball, always has been... will never be the quickest but he gives Liverpool what they need and wouldn't swap him for anyone.

Daniel Agger: Good player who's strengths aren't defending. Yes he's very competetant at the back but he's not a great centre back for me. He isn't the quickest, is weak in the in air and really struggles against strikers with physical presence. Alot of teams tend to play one upfront these days which allows him to get away with it, I think once they cotton onto that he'll be on borrowed time in Liverpool's first team, unless of course the rest of the team becomes that good it doesn't really matter.

Sami Hyypia: Still for me a better player than Agger and by quite a distance. People often accuse Sami of aimless hoofs, from what I've seen of him over the years I disagree, he tends to hoof when the midfield don't show for the ball. Alonso, takes the ball of Hyypia alot from the defence and I firmly believe that not having a natural left winger and Alonso not in the side often leaves Sami short of options other than to hoof the ball. At the end of the day, he's still the strongest and most arially dominant centre half we have, by some distance.

Jermaine Pennant: His form's been good. His crossings excellent and he's causing the opposition problems when he plays. He links up well with Finnan and he basically gives us width and more or less exactly what I thought he would. People may say he doesn't score enough, they're correct. He doesn't, not something that will ever change, I'd be suprised if he scores more than 5 in a season, but he gives us things that alot of other players don't. For me definately worth his place in the starting line up despite his lack of ability to put the ball in the net.




Babel: I'm sorry but not an £11,500,000 player. Pacey, fairly strong... thats about it. Awful signing.






Momo Sissoko: A good fourth choice midfielder. The Momo machine hasn't always been at his best the last two seasons, some rediculous statements like he'll become world class, he's the new Vieira and all haven't really helped as the expectation on him was to high. However, he's still good at what he does (even though he had a mare against Marseille) and will be a useful player over the coming seasons.


Dirk Kuyt: The workhorse. Good player, good alround, links play quite well and finds space well and never stops running. Not the best player in the world but can do a job and a player I'd be happy to see as a third choice striker.

Crouch: Not good enough, never has been, misses to many chances, doesn't win the headers he should, lacks strength and mobility. Crouch is nothing more than a decent player who came in to replace four players and give us the style of player we needed at the time. Thanks for the contribution, time to move on.

.

Arbeloa a good squad player and under no cicumstances should he be in the first team,
i really do think you come out with utter 100% sh!t at times.
Especially when you think Risse is a safer option and to say risse isnt exactly maldini. he isnt even arbeloa because arbeloa is far better than him.

you said Sami still better than Agger?What world are you living in lad.He may of been a few seasons back but not no more.

You know who Pennant reminds me of, he reminds me of a kieron dyer and a Ashley Cole and Jenas of spurs everyone of these players are so overated and hyped up just because there english, benayoun has done more this season than Penant.

you know what tho SMEGS or STU i agree with you on the striker opinion you have especially with Crouch who to me is a  mid table striker ie Aston Villa etc Everton lol, AND kuyt he is thge best foil foR Torres.

Last but not least Babbel....Well lets not go there we will wait and see if im wrong you can serve me great humble pie but if im right you will well and trully get your serving.

[Woollyback]

reina

finnan        agger      carra       arbeloa


pennant     gerrard    mascherano     benayoun

               torres          kuyt       



mascharano simply HAS to be in the side. leave the playmaking & fancy dan stuff to gerrard, mascherano is the new kaiser.