Liverpool FC Forum

[ruskiy playmaker]

Yet the last match of the season he changed the formation and played 4-4-2 ? Doesn't prove to me he has learned anything tbh.

I think that was just to give Voronin a game, which makes me think that he'll stick around for another season.

[Rush Job]

It's not the first time my occupation has been brought into a debate of football on here but I suppose it's fair play when all said and done.

Sorry fella just a joke didnt mean to overstep the mark. Do you know how long it took to delete your post down to that line.

[Leonmc0708]

Yet the last match of the season he changed the formation and played 4-4-2 ? Doesn't prove to me he has learned anything tbh.

Seriously you think the selection for the last game has any relevance to the rest of the season ?

A dead rubber game.

[JohnBull]

At first I wasn't impressed with the idea of Sammy Lee coming but after reading the article in todays Daily Post it makes you think that it could be a good move.
Raffa has bought some players who are just not up to the speed, or aggression, needed in the Prem. Their first touch and positioning are way off the mark and the cardinal sin, not losing possession the the mid-third of the field, has left us exposed too many times of the past seasons.
The CL gives you more time and space, but to win the Prem a different gameplan is needed. Sammy Lee is no ones puppet and he will have his say whether Raffa likes it or not. I'm sure that he will not stand by and go-along with throwing the towel in, like at Reading, or the bizarre substitutions that have resulted in points being dropped.
If Raffa listens to the advice, and I'm not saying that Sammy could ever be a Liverpool manager, it could be the missing link in his armour. Lee does know the Prem and knows that every game against us is the oppositions cup final where there is no room for faint hearted players.

This could work.

[NANNY RED]

Sorry i know this is a serious discussion but dont you just love the man

RAFA READY TO KEEP ON WORKING
Paul Eaton 14 May 2008 
  Rafael Benitez has admitted he'll continue working while on holiday this summer - so long as his wife doesn't find his mobile phone! 
With the Reds' season having ended at the weekend Benitez is now looking to put his squad rebuilding plans into action as he looks to bring new faces into the club.
 
The boss has previously spoken of his desire to finalise transfer business as quickly as possible, and even though he has plans for a summer break he insists he'll still be doing all he can to ensure it's a productive close season for the Reds.
 
"I don't tend to have too much time away from football, but I will try to switch off for a bit," he says. "I will have to try to hide my mobile phone, and if my wife can't find out about it I'll try and keep it on me.
 
"But if she finds it I'm sure she'll throw it in the swimming pool!
 
"I don't like the beach too much but I don't mind being around a swimming pool or maybe going up into the mountains."
 
And even when he does find time to relax on holiday, Benitez admits it's often impossible to escape the attentions of the club's worldwide fan base.
 
"When you are at such a big club as Liverpool everybody knows who you are and it's not easy to get away from people on holiday," he added.
 
"Last summer, I was by the swimming pool and a kid was playing football wearing a Liverpool cap. He passed the ball and it came to me, so I tried to dribble it past him and we were playing for about five minutes.
 
"After we'd finished, his father spoke to him and said 'do you know who that is?' The kid says 'is it a Liverpool player?' and his dad replies 'no, it's the manager!'
 
"So after that he was with me playing football the whole week. He was the only one who hadn't recognised me and he was the one wearing the Liverpool cap."

[muzodziwa]

I think Rafa would have done well with Chelsea for a number of different reasons. With the available funds and the an eye for talent that rafa has, I think Chelsea would have been better than what they are at the moment. Given the right amount of money rafa has not dissappointing, Reina may have been their number one, with the admiration that rafa had for evra, he would have beaten off the mancs to land him and alves to complete the full backs. John Terry would have been there and i imagine he would have brought in Dani Agger to partner him. He would have maintained the holding player role but instead of Makalele he would have the monster Mash.

He would have maintained the wingers in Joe cole and Arjen Robben. I think the player who would have suffered would have been Lampard as i think Essien would have been the first choice partner to the monster.

The strike force would have been Drogba and Torres.

The choice of wingers is critical in this set up, because rafa is not very fond of wingers who do not contribute to the total team effort. Arjen and Cole are skilled wingers who also help the full backs, and their positional awareness when attacking is superb and with the attacking full backs like Evra and Alves, the team would still remain "compact" even in the event of a counter attack. With Monster Mash and Essien you have the defensive and attacking balance in the midfield that would negate the effect of hollywood passes that we are accustomed to due to lack of touch line quality we have at present.

I think Drogba would have been a better player under Rafa, just by cutting down on his deck theatrics and playing alongside the most daring, athletic, tactically aware,natural finisher,handsome, baby faced, humble striker in the world would only improve him.

I think this is the team that rafa would play consistently in the league and the champions league, and he will still "style it" in the league cup and the FA cup. The difference would have been in the quality on the bench. He would style it for instance if his team is playing a prem game against Stoke city away and a champions league away match against Barcelona. How he would style it in this ideal world; Reina, Agger, Terry, Mash,Essien,Evra, Alves, Drogba, Torres would play almost every champions league and premiership games and wingers will be rotated depending on the tactical/physical demands of the game. We will see "styling" in a different sense to what it is now.

Rafa is not a one player motivator and would never sunction a goal celebration that involves players hugging the manager because i think he is so much a believer in the sum is greater than the individual philosophy. I really think rafa believes the team is greater than the players, the manager, and the owners, i think he feels that he is a servant to the supporters whom i believe he regards as the true custodians of the club. In this regard i think the team would have been more loyal to the supporters, and actually Chelsea would have a more indepth player bond than the plastic cohesion that Mourinho planted at the team. I also think that Chelsea would have become a likeable team from the south, with the wit and charm of Rafa, not so many would detaste Chelsea the way we used to when the "special one" was there.

With Rafa's humility, Mr Abramovich would have found a perfect partner to satisfy his egoistic needs, indeed he would have been top of Maslow's Hierachy of needs. Chelsea would have been competing and winning almost everything, the fans would have been genuinely happy, the press would have been pontificating about the rise of a new phenomenon in world football, and as for us we will have been wishing had he only been our manager.

I think the best thing that happened to us, especially this season is having Mr Banitez as our manager; I do not suggest that he is a footballing God, yes he gets it wrong many a time but i think if he had gone to Chelsea, they would have been way ahead of us, not only in footballing terms but in class as well

[stmichael]

I just hate the way the press give Benitez no respect and throw sh#t his way at the first opportunity for silly reasons. People talk of his job being on the line as he hasn't brought Liverpool any closer to the title than they were before (Boll#cks, we could barely qualify for the champions league before he got here, a Uefa cup team) and he hasnt won a trophy this year (Something Wenger has got away with for 4 years).

People in the press dont realise how far Liverpool have come and not everyone can have absolute revolution within 2 seasons like Chelsea did. Teams grow for years before reaching new heights. We're on our way.

[muzodziwa]

to the other side of the coin, what if Jose had been our manager. Well i think we will not have won the league at all, not the champions league, and probably not have won the FA cup. I regard Mourinho highly as a coach but i have my issues with him. Yes he won the champions league and the Portuguese league. I will not want to talk about the Portuguese league much but winning it has no relevancy to being a top manager. I think they did well to win the European cup on small budget, but they had the monopoly over the best of Portuguese young talent with some competion from Sporting Lisbon and Benfica. Much of that team prospered because of this, almost every young Portuguese footballer would dream of playing for Porto one day. This is not so in the Premiership, the young British talent do not necessarily want to play for Liverpool alone. We have greater competition from the likes of the Mancs, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Tottenham who have the financial clout to beat us to any local talent that we have.

So the squad that Porto had when they won the champions league had vast talent some of whom we had never had before. I  actually think they heard a better squad than us when we won the competition. This does not diminish the achievements of Mr Mourinho but its just putting perspective into things.

His two premiership achievements were fantastic but again putting things into perspective, Mr ranieri beside his tinkering had formed a core of players that made it a little bit easier for Mourinho to build on. The power of the blank cheque can not be underestimated, but he was still good in building a title winning side. The coming of Peter Kenyon was essential to the transfer business of Chelsea, and they essentially got what they identified in the market. He might have had a strained relationship with Mr Abramovich later on, Mr kenyon enabled deals to be concluded at a good time to work with the players in pre-season.

Coming to Liverpool would have been a totally different ball game altogether. With Mr moores there was no money for anything and if you think he would have done much better with the 10 million we spent on Kuyt that is just wishful thinking. He  would have gone into the Portuguese market and maybe had Carvallo to cover Hyppia and a Tiago to partner Gerrard in midfield; whatever he would have done he would have problems to overhaul the squad that Houllier left.

Without money or access to good local talent we would have suffered a lot, he might not have gone for a keeper like Reina, maybe he would have kept faith with Carson, and introduced some of the reserve team guys but this would have been a recipe for mid table status. With our financial position i do not see him having the dealing abilities in the transfer market.

Maybe he would have endeared himself to a group of some in the squad and this would not have helped with a mediocre squad Houlier left. Certainly with Mr Parry around he would have got accustomed to getting the crumbs from the transfer table; and maybe considering his options after all. With his big gob he would maybe have raffled some suppoters who have been waiting for 18 years without the premiership, and support at enfield would have been at its lowest.

With the coming of the american clowns promising heaven on earth and then the reality of an uncertain future; how long would Mourinho have stood this fiasco. In all honesty i think he would have jumped ship and we would have been stuck fighting for a sixth place finish.

[stmichael]

It was interesting to hear Avram Grant at the weekend saying that someone had once told him that it's not what you change that's important, but what you don't. In that regard, he was advocating a simple approach to management. I think it is valid to discuss other managers in this thread as well as our own and, in that context, Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho and Grant should be mentioned.

I mean a lot of the press have started to get on the 'Grant's not getting the credit he deserves' wagon, but, in my view, his 'simplistic' approach lost them the league and would have had them out of the CL if it weren't for....well, let's not bring that up again. Almost all of what I think you need for a challenge was there already, i.e. a squad of very good players who play as a team. If they had a better manager, they would have capitalised on the fact that United played well below their level for much of the last 2 months of the season.

[Emerald Red]

I just hate the way the press give Benitez no respect and throw sh#t his way at the first opportunity for silly reasons. People talk of his job being on the line as he hasn't brought Liverpool any closer to the title than they were before (Boll#cks, we could barely qualify for the champions league before he got here, a Uefa cup team) and he hasnt won a trophy this year (Something Wenger has got away with for 4 years).

People in the press dont realise how far Liverpool have come and not everyone can have absolute revolution within 2 seasons like Chelsea did. Teams grow for years before reaching new heights. We're on our way.

Not meaning to play the same broken tune, but we're Liverpool, mate. We will invariably get sh*t slinged our way due to the fact that a LOT of people (within the media) are biased in a bad way towards either the club or the city itself. I'm not a Scouser, but I can relate to that sense of stereotype or discrimination that they receive. If the press isn't giving us respect now, then they'll hate us even more if, or should I say when, we start to be a dominant force again. They have short memories. Amazing considering that we've still won the most silverware since the turn of the millennium. They may all be cups, but a trophy is a trophy. People, including our own supporters, forget that.

[account deleted by request]

Liverpool 2 fa cups, 2 League cups, 1 uefa cup, 1 CL. = 6 cups
Chelsea  2 fa cups  2 league cups  2 League titles     = 6 cups
Man u    1 fa cup   1 league cup    5 league titles      = 7 cups

[Leonmc0708]

Liverpool 2 fa cups, 2 League cups, 1 uefa cup, 1 CL. = 6 cups
Chelsea  2 fa cups  2 league cups  2 League titles     = 6 cups
Man u    1 fa cup   1 league cup    5 league titles      = 7 cups

Whats yer point ?

[account deleted by request]

Amazing considering that we've still won the most silverware since the turn of the millennium. They may all be cups, but a trophy is a trophy. People, including our own supporters, forget that

I suppose my point is I think he is wrong, but I preferred to ask the question rather than just point it out.

[zarababe]

Great Rafa Article by his mate Balague - a real insight in to the man, the passsion and his plans..

Rafael Benitez opens up on transfers, treachery, Torres, titles - and, of course, tinkering
The Liverpool manager goes on the record exclusively with TheGame, starting, as he must, with rotation

Guillem Balague

Liverpool’s victory over the old enemy yesterday will ease the pressure on Rafael BenÍtez, for whom two Champions League final appearances in three season has not been enough to avoid harsh judgments after another failed title bid. Here he answers his critics.

Your way of working has always involved squad rotation. How and why do you take the decision to rotate a player? Are fewer rotations the way forward?

First, if you rotate a squad it means you believe in your players and trust in their ability to perform. You want everyone to feel they are working together to achieve our goals. If we win it is thanks to the efforts of everyone, however small their contribution. Look at Vladimir Smicer, who did not play a lot for us [in 2004-05] but scored one of the goals that allowed us to win the Champions League.

Every manager with a team in European competitions and with international players, with so many games to play, rotates his squad – call them changes, rotations, they all do it. Nowadays, in comparison to 20 years ago, we play 20 per cent more games in a season. Players run 15 per cent more than they used to and, even more importantly, they run 30 per cent faster.

Things have changed in terms of physical demands. The decision to rotate starts by watching my team train – that is a priority for me. I see which players have energy and what players need to rest. You look at a player, talk to your staff, to the doctors, try to analyse the situation and then you chat to the footballer, although he will almost always say that he is ready to play. So sometimes you have to read between the lines to gauge whether they are really fully fit and if they are more tired than they are letting on.

Do you feel that Alex Ferguson “changes the team” and you “rotate” or “tinker”?

When managers win matches, people talk about how they changed players; if they don’t win, then it becomes “rotation policies”. People make an evaluation of a team without knowing enough about the side. People would say, “Why don’t you just pick the same team?” but they haven’t given the wider issues enough thought.

Are you still involved in all the training sessions?

I’ve always gone to every training session and I will keep doing this. Maybe from time to time manager obligations force me to miss some parts of training, but it is very rare. It is a priority to be there whenever I can, especially when addressing tactical issues.

Why does your Liverpool side not yet look like your old Valencia side?

The team that I left at Valencia had had great success and were a strong unit. That side knew what they had to do and destroyed opponents. I think that this Liverpool team has had moments where they’ve played at a similar level, but logically everything takes time.

When I arrived at Valencia I found a squad that was already quite dangerous, solid and well put together by Héctor Cúper. When we arrived at Liverpool we found a team that was low in confidence and hadn’t had a winning record. We had to rebuild. None of the players that left us are playing at a club that are of a higher standard than Liverpool.

What would your ideal Liverpool side be like - similar to your old Valencia team?

Some teams prefer the long game, others the short game. I think there’s always a middle path to take between the two. I like a team that always knows what to do in each moment, a team that knows when it’s time to maintain possession and play the short ball and by the same token a team that knows when it’s time to take a more direct approach.

What tactical differences are there between the Premier League and the Champions League? Do you think the less tactical nature of some Premier League games is the reason why your style of play is yet to triumph in the English league?[

Evidently the Premier League is much more physical and in the Champions League, tactically speaking there are more options open to a manager. When you are talking about long balls and second balls, what you are looking at effectively is a 50-50 scenario. It can go one of two ways. Whoever wins that second ball will either continue attacking or be able to start a counter-attack.

What this means is that the Premier League is tactically speaking a more simple or straightforward competition. You can try to control two or three aspects of a game and that’s enough. In the Champions League the tactics become more complex because different styles of play are brought together when different teams from different countries meet.

Is the Premier League more straightforward in terms of tactics but more difficult in terms of control of the game?

Yes, we are talking about a very physical competition. When you put the ball in the opposition’s penalty area and you fight for it, a physical dimension takes over.

So what do Liverpool need to do to win the Premier League?

A balance between technical ability and physical strength. We’re a team with enough technical ability to play well and we have enough physical strength to compete, but what we need to do is bring these two elements together so that when key moments arise we are ready and able to compete.

Do you favour the Champions League over other competitions? Do your goals for this season change?

You start every season here with four objectives. As a manager, you have to be able to manage your resources to get the best out of your squad.

In terms of the Premier League we were close at certain points this season, but we drew s e v e r a l games and lost touch, whereas in the Champions League we continued to progress. What happens is that subconsciously your focus turns to the competition you have within your reach.

They say that the departure of Pako Ayestarán [the former assistant manager] had a negative effect on the morale and performance of the team. Is that the way you see it? Can you tell us what happened?

Pako was much more than a physical trainer, he was my friend and someone I trusted for many years. I worked with him for 11 years. It’s a recent wound that still hurts.

Liverpool gave him autonomy and power and I think that changed him a lot – he wanted more and more. One day I found out that he had serious contacts with other teams and that seemed to me a betrayal towards me and the club that I couldn’t accept. He told me he wanted to leave the same day that we played against Toulouse, so I lost someone I trusted greatly, a key member of my staff at a crucial moment in the preseason.

Logically, this has an effect on a team. The people that arrived had to adapt and familiarise themselves with a new environment. This meant that a transitional period started at the club, but we still managed to win games and play well. Then, when we started to draw games, people questioned our work.

I believe that no one is irreplaceable and we have to keep moving forward. Paco de Miguel took over the role as physical trainer. Also, as a result, I have more of a presence around the team and try to have more involvement with the players.

Certain commentators say that if Fernando Torres had played more you could have been challenging for the Premier League title.

That has been one of the great lies of this season. There are a lot of people that talk without having thought things through about the number of games Torres has played and the impact that this has had on our performance in the league. Torres did not take part in the victorious games against Toulouse [4-0], Besiktas [8-0] and Havant & Waterlooville [5-2].

He didn’t make the bench in eight games; for six of these he was injured, which seems to be something that people forget. The other two games were in the FA Cup and Carling Cup, so the theory about our position in the league being down to Torres being missing doesn’t add up.

How much did he cost?

Whenever we talk about the deal for Torres with Atlético Madrid we always include Luis GarcÍa in the price. The total cost of the operation is around £20 million.

Has his success surprised you?

You always have confidence in a player that arrives with energy and desire and who has great quality. However, the truth is that he has been a fantastic success. He has already scored 28 goals and the level of play he brings to the side and his commitment to the team is hugely significant.

We formulated a plan when he arrived, focusing on trying to keep him up front close to the defenders because with the speed that he has, if you give him a good pass he’ll latch on to it. The problem is, with so many games we haven’t had bags of time to work on specifics. We’ve tried with the group to work on certain technical individual aspects as well as helping the players to learn how to execute at crucial moments.

In Fernando’s case this involves tuning up his finishing, for example. We try to find time to work as well on Steven Gerrard’s new role, which he is certainly enjoying.

Thirty-one goals out of 56 [in the league] this season have come from Torres and Gerrard. Is that a worry?

This shows that they are two players with great timing and quality – they are a great plus for us. But we have to get to a point where other players get on to the scoresheet, too, the likes of Dirk Kuyt, Peter Crouch and Ryan Babel, for instance.

In Britain the press do not focus on tactics so much. Do you feel, because of that, your work has been undervalued?

Not specifically. It’s true that the press in England talk a lot more about names. Here they talk about the name of the player and the performance of the individual over the collective performance. This is part of the football culture here and I accept it.

When I talk to the members of the press that come by here on a regular basis, I get the impression that they know what they’re talking about. I understand that analysis from a distance is harder.

People accuse you of not signing properly. And they mention Josemi, Antonio Núñez, Craig Bellamy and even Jermaine Pennant.

At a time when we didn’t have endless economic resources, I think that we made good signings in general. We should be talking about players like Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Xabi Alonso, Luis GarcÍa, Torres, Babel, Lucas Leiva, Skrtel and also Arbeloa, Sissoko, Fabio Aurélio, Kuyt. These are players who have brought a lot to the team. And in certain cases – for example, Sissoko and Bellamy – the club gained financially.

We have signed 28 players in four years for the first team. Considering that the number of changes we had to make when I arrived and the fact that without much money we have to take more risks, I don’t think this is a disproportionate number.

Why does Crouch not play more regularly?

We’ve established a system with one main striker and one secondary striker that works quite well. Logically this makes it more complicated for him. We have a striker that has scored 28 goals, so the other players have to work around that. For instance, now if the secondary striker is Gerrard [who has scored 19 goals], logically there are less options for the other players.

You talk about differences in spending between Chelsea, Manchester United and yourselves. Arsenal are having success having spent less. What is the right path to follow for Liverpool?

I have a rough idea of the figures involved. Chelsea had spent £120 million previously and an additional £240 million to win the league in the 2004-05 season. Manchester United have spent £200 million in recent years. This year on Carlos Tévez, Owen Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani, that cost them more than £70 million. Tottenham have spent £100 million in the last two seasons alone. And Arsenal have spent more or less the same amount as we have on young players with potential.

In my four years at Liverpool we have spent £150 million and we have gained somewhere in the region of £70 million. Looking at those numbers, there’s a difference of £20 million per season, yet we have won four [trophies] and played seven finals. When all things are considered, that’s not a bad return. I think that we’re on the right path.

Now we can spend money on players if we can earn some by selling players. If we don’t have the £500 million Chelsea spent in recent years, we have to look to lay the foundations in the youth teams and reserve teams and build from there.

The players in the reserve team are 17, 18 years old, so they’ll need two, three years to reach the right level and the first team. We are close to making three signings, one for the first team.

Is it only money that is the difference with the other top three? Is it also a question of mentality?

I think that success breeds confidence and a positive mentality. We won the Champions League [in 2005] and that victory meant that we had the confidence to reach another final in that competition [in 2007]. In the Premier League we have not had the same success, so we are steadily building the same confidence.

How much longer would you like to stay at Liverpool?

I am very happy and would like to stay here for many more years.

What communication have you had with Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr?

I have had contact through e-mail with them and also Rick Parry [the chief executive] lets me know what the situation is.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....804.ece

Read and understand the path to glory ain't so easy when you take over an ailing giant ..

[Rush Job]

I think Rafa would have done well with Chelsea for a number of different reasons. With the available funds and the an eye for talent that rafa has, I think Chelsea would have been better than what they are at the moment. Given the right amount of money rafa has not dissappointing, Reina may have been their number one, with the admiration that rafa had for evra, he would have beaten off the mancs to land him and alves to complete the full backs. John Terry would have been there and i imagine he would have brought in Dani Agger to partner him. He would have maintained the holding player role but instead of Makalele he would have the monster Mash.

He would have maintained the wingers in Joe cole and Arjen Robben. I think the player who would have suffered would have been Lampard as i think Essien would have been the first choice partner to the monster.

The strike force would have been Drogba and Torres.

The choice of wingers is critical in this set up, because rafa is not very fond of wingers who do not contribute to the total team effort. Arjen and Cole are skilled wingers who also help the full backs, and their positional awareness when attacking is superb and with the attacking full backs like Evra and Alves, the team would still remain "compact" even in the event of a counter attack. With Monster Mash and Essien you have the defensive and attacking balance in the midfield that would negate the effect of hollywood passes that we are accustomed to due to lack of touch line quality we have at present.

I think Drogba would have been a better player under Rafa, just by cutting down on his deck theatrics and playing alongside the most daring, athletic, tactically aware,natural finisher,handsome, baby faced, humble striker in the world would only improve him.

I think this is the team that rafa would play consistently in the league and the champions league, and he will still "style it" in the league cup and the FA cup. The difference would have been in the quality on the bench. He would style it for instance if his team is playing a prem game against Stoke city away and a champions league away match against Barcelona. How he would style it in this ideal world; Reina, Agger, Terry, Mash,Essien,Evra, Alves, Drogba, Torres would play almost every champions league and premiership games and wingers will be rotated depending on the tactical/physical demands of the game. We will see "styling" in a different sense to what it is now.

Rafa is not a one player motivator and would never sunction a goal celebration that involves players hugging the manager because i think he is so much a believer in the sum is greater than the individual philosophy. I really think rafa believes the team is greater than the players, the manager, and the owners, i think he feels that he is a servant to the supporters whom i believe he regards as the true custodians of the club. In this regard i think the team would have been more loyal to the supporters, and actually Chelsea would have a more indepth player bond than the plastic cohesion that Mourinho planted at the team. I also think that Chelsea would have become a likeable team from the south, with the wit and charm of Rafa, not so many would detaste Chelsea the way we used to when the "special one" was there.

With Rafa's humility, Mr Abramovich would have found a perfect partner to satisfy his egoistic needs, indeed he would have been top of Maslow's Hierachy of needs. Chelsea would have been competing and winning almost everything, the fans would have been genuinely happy, the press would have been pontificating about the rise of a new phenomenon in world football, and as for us we will have been wishing had he only been our manager.

I think the best thing that happened to us, especially this season is having Mr Banitez as our manager; I do not suggest that he is a footballing God, yes he gets it wrong many a time but i think if he had gone to Chelsea, they would have been way ahead of us, not only in footballing terms but in class as well

Speculation but good stuff i agree with most.