Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

Lando will be using them next 

Steady

[JC_81]

now IMO, Benitez has taken us as far as he can... I don’t think he has what it takes to win us the league, which after all is our main hope/objective/whatever...

Disclaimer: this is not an attack, but a question.

The question is why. Where do you see the symptoms, the signs, that makes you think he has reached as far as he can.

You didn't expect to be where we are in July, so, why are you so sure now that he has brought the club as far as he can?

Disclaimer: Sabre, this is not a dig at you mate...

But can people please fu.cking stop putting disclaimers on their posts??  Mick started it and it irritates the fu.ck out of me to be honest.  Just post your bloody thoughts and don't worry if people want to criticise!!  Fu.cking disclaimers

forgot a word there 

Get to

[Sabre]

I  don't care much about if people like what I say --If I did I wouldn't take pleasure annoying certain "respected by the community" members--, but at least I want to make sure they get exactly what I don't mean. However, ok, no more disclaimers. :-)

I asked Ace' for a reason. The reasons he has explained are very familiar and a respectable opinion. We have discussed those a lot of times.  It kind of confirms a suspicion I have. All the elements that Ace' mentions of Rafa, all those signs, were present the previous season, and the season before, and the season before.

The media handling was there (people said Rafa was not enough friendly with the media), the rotation thread was started shortly after the New Testament was written, the baffling decissions have always been there  too, the styling, everything was there. The Goatie has been the only mentionable change of Rafa, and the other one the seeing of light, but that's been for "good" -- always assuming Gerrard's muscular injuries are bad luck.

So, it seems to me, and Ace' might confirm it if he wishes, that he already thought that Rafa was not the man the last season and the season before, If he didn't say so it was because he still had a bit of patience within him.

That would explain Scott what you find surprising about people's reaction. IMHO last summer Rafa had a few trusters, many people in the middle asking for improvement or Rafa should go, and many people convinced he's not the right man for the job.

This season the few trusters are less, the middle people are happy as long as the results are good, and the fans that were convinced Rafa is not the man, simply are saying their thoughts when the atmosphere is more proper for that, because if they did so when we were first, they'd get a lot of stick (unfortunately).

I just think Scott that many people haven't changed their opinions on Rafa a lot. A Rafa doubter now, was probably a Rafa doubter yesteryear. Which is nice, but that means that unless Rafa wins the league and we have the cup in the hands, they won't give any credit to the manager as long as we're not top of the table.

I think that until the end of the season we'll have a dimmer switch in the reactions. If we are on top or two points away, this will be a Rafa can't be criticised forum. If we fall to 6 points off the table this will be a Rafa can't be defended forum.

[Lando_Griffin]

My criteria for the manager of liverpool . Is he or she MUST have just two things .

The first is - The first name must be Rafa

The second is - The second name must be Benitez .

Anything short of that and there not good enough for LFC

In my very humble opinion of course . VIVA LA RAFALUTION .

Amen to that, Brother. 

[aCe']

I  don't care much about if people like what I say --If I did I wouldn't take pleasure annoying certain "respected by the community" members--, but at least I want to make sure they get exactly what I don't mean. However, ok, no more disclaimers. :-)

I asked Ace' for a reason. The reasons he has explained are very familiar and a respectable opinion. We have discussed those a lot of times.  It kind of confirms a suspicion I have. All the elements that Ace' mentions of Rafa, all those signs, were present the previous season, and the season before, and the season before.

The media handling was there (people said Rafa was not enough friendly with the media), the rotation thread was started shortly after the New Testament was written, the baffling decissions have always been there  too, the styling, everything was there. The Goatie has been the only mentionable change of Rafa, and the other one the seeing of light, but that's been for "good" -- always assuming Gerrard's muscular injuries are bad luck.

So, it seems to me, and Ace' might confirm it if he wishes, that he already thought that Rafa was not the man the last season and the season before, If he didn't say so it was because he still had a bit of patience within him.

That would explain Scott what you find surprising about people's reaction. IMHO last summer Rafa had a few trusters, many people in the middle asking for improvement or Rafa should go, and many people convinced he's not the right man for the job.

This season the few trusters are less, the middle people are happy as long as the results are good, and the fans that were convinced Rafa is not the man, simply are saying their thoughts when the atmosphere is more proper for that, because if they did so when we were first, they'd get a lot of stick (unfortunately).

I just think Scott that many people haven't changed their opinions on Rafa a lot. A Rafa doubter now, was probably a Rafa doubter yesteryear. Which is nice, but that means that unless Rafa wins the league and we have the cup in the hands, they won't give any credit to the manager as long as we're not top of the table.

I think that until the end of the season we'll have a dimmer switch in the reactions. If we are on top or two points away, this will be a Rafa can't be criticised forum. If we fall to 6 points off the table this will be a Rafa can't be defended forum.

Sabre i see where ur coming from.. and i agree that my concerns about some of the things i mentioned are far from 'new' or 'unique' or anything... its always been a problem and it has cost us yet and again whether some chose to see things this way or not...

i'v said it when we were top of the tale and started drawing games .. its last year all over again.... we had a better start, the teams around us werent doing so well.. results were going our way, and as was obvious, we had a fantastic opportunity of putting ourselves in a better position than we are... we didnt take advantage of that, and last few games just have 'typical liverpool' written all over them..

what worries me is that if we stick with Benitez, we might end up having this same conversation yet again next year ... "Why did we draw against Stoke? Hull ? If only we had beaten X, Y, and Z at home (which we should have), we would have won the fcker".."player X was going for 5million and we need someone to sort out that position! why didnt we go for him?! Must be Parry the fcker"..etc etc..

it just seems like the same things keep happenning season after season and while ill give him credit for all he's done to this club i just dont believe that with all things considered he's able to win us the league title unless many many things just happen to work in our favor at once... Seems like a long shot and im quite honestly not willing to take the risk of waiting another 5 years playing somewhat dull football only to end up with a championsleague spot and no silverwear...

thanks for the memories and all but its time to try something different imo..

[Lando_Griffin]

Sheep? I don't get this bit. Just because people agree with a certain point, it doesn't make them "sheep". People who believe that Rafa ought to be given another contract and the wherewithall to turn the five year plan into a ten year plan aren't sheep, they have come to an opinion based on what they've seen what they've read, how they feel etc and they are entitled so to do. Similarly, people who don't believe that aren't sheep either. Surely they ought to allowed an opinion as well, and the courtesy of an acceptance that they probably drew conclusions in the same way as people on the oppositie side of the debate?

The fact that one of the most obvious choices was missed off the options wasn't a huge problem I didn't think, and I don't understand why people got so hot under the collar about it. I deliberately started a completely seperate thread in a completely seperate section of the forum about the most glaring "others" omission that I could think of. I did it precisely because if I had put it in the poll thread it would have derailed it. I then made a mental note to myself not to even mention that persons name in your poll thread, once again to give it a good chance to run. I stuck to that intil right near the end, despite numerous attempts by people to get me onto the subject of that person.

Then, when the thread gets closed down the advice given is to open a new thread about any "others", but I'd already done it two days previously. If poll threads about the managers position (which I still think are a bit out of order given we have a manager who is challenging for the title) descend into name calling and flame wars then fair enough, but in this case it all seemed pretty cordial to me.

One of the biggest shames of the thing is that you never did get the chance GYBS to properly answer Peewee's question a couple of pages from the end of the locked thread. Perhaps you didn't see it I don't know, but given that your opinion of some of the "others" in your poll led to you omitting them from your top eight, it would be interesting to read your thoughts on that one.

The feeling persists though I'm afraid that whenever the discussion becomes a bit uncomfortable for certain posters, threads get locked.

Maybe some people are just getting pi$$ed off coming on the board and listening to how shi'te Rafa is at everything,how he will never win the League and has to go,and how wonderful Mourinho is mate?

No big deal that the thread was locked.In fact one thread for w@nking over Mourinho is plenty...maybe even on too many!

Well they haven't heard how sh!te Rafa is at everything off me Baz, that's for sure. I agree with you on the Mourinho thread by the way, that's why I started it in a section which people barely visit, so it didn't cause any offence.

Equally, I tried to keep the w2nking over him to a minimum, prefrring to just go with the facts of his record and allow others to judge.

Anyway, once again I'm allowing myself to get dragged into something which will derail the thread.

MY INDICTMENT OF THE RAFA BENITEZ REGIME. As you were. Isn't it strange how people would put anti Rafa comments in this thread, and if you come into it and read them you might get of reading anti Rafa comments? Very odd, but anyway as you were.

Stop being such a plank.

[bigmick]

I think that until the end of the season we'll have a dimmer switch in the reactions. If we are on top or two points away, this will be a Rafa can't be criticised forum. If we fall to 6 points off the table this will be a Rafa can't be defended forum.

Well I think if he wins the title or gets very close to it, he's proving his doubters wrong and it would be daft to pretend otherwise. If you say he'll never win the title for Liverpool and we come second on goal difference, well then you must accept that you're wrong.

The most obvious question then is "how close does it have to be before he's proved his doubters wrong?". It's a tough one to answer in all honesty, because so much depends upon circumstances.

It is my belief for instance that if you'd offered people where we are now at the start of the season, 100% of fans would have taken it. So why the moans then? Well nobody could have forseen just what a chance we were about to get, to put ourselves absolutely clear in the race. Lets be totally honest about it, the Mancs unbelieveable run of late should be bringing them back into contention at best, not almost putting the thing to bed like it has. Nobody could have forseen that Arsenal and Chelsea were about to be quite so bad either.

So from here to the run in, it's hard to say how close we'd have to go. If we have thirteen matches left, and win say 11, draw one and lose one but still come up short, then it has to be said it's a majorly good effort whichever way you look at it. That would put us on by my calculations 88 points and we'd be a tad unfortunate not to win it with that.

If on the other hand we finish on 82 points and got done by a point, it'd be hard to escape the conclusion that we kind of chucked it away somewhere down the line.

FWIW I think we'll get around 27 points from out last 13 games, and finish on 81 points. Back to where we were a few years back if I'm right, but we'll see.

[Lando_Griffin]

Fck me... is this whole sht about antis and pros getting worse or is it just me ?!

I’m losing all interest in posting because of GYBS and his likes to be honest jumping at every post criticizing the poster with 1liner bullsht posts that basically question loyalty or quite simply offer irrelevant and tedious support to the manager/players... guess what GYBS, ur fcking boring mate, probably the most boring, clueless poster these boards have ever seen..

My indictment of the rafa regime...

Well... he's been a terrific coach for us... we’re yet again one of the better sides in the continent and he's done a great job in making us one of the hardest sides to beat in world football at the moment... I think it was saint who said earlier that the one thing u look for in a manager is success and whether a manager would bring in any... now IMO, Benitez has taken us as far as he can... I don’t think he has what it takes to win us the league, which after all is our main hope/objective/whatever... his approach to the game is too negative at times, and add to that the fact that he thinks that a player can’t play 2 games in a row without somehow being rotated 3 times whilst at it... all the crrappy transfers.. etc etc... Would take a lot of things going our way at once for us to become champions under him imo...

I don’t think he should or could be sacked this season quite simply because we’re still in it and its pretty late to bring someone in and hope for an instant impact because even that might not be enough for us to win it this season... Starting next season though, I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea at all if we start off with a new manager... not to milk it or anything but mourinho would be a fantastic man to have in charge... not that i think it could/will happen, just that i cant seem to think of many others who wouldnt be (risks) if you will... Gullit is another one I find pretty interesting but I won’t go there now...

Anyways... hope everyone is having a good night

Whereas "Rafa is sh*t", "Rafa has taken us as far as he can", "Rafa doesn't have what it takes", "Rafa will never win the league" is the most exciting literature ever produced...

[bigmick]

MY INDICTMENT OF THE RAFA BENITEZ REGIME. As you were. Isn't it strange how people would put anti Rafa comments in this thread, and if you come into it and read them you might get of reading anti Rafa comments? Very odd, but anyway as you were.

Stop being such a plank.[/quote]
Ah well, it was nice while it lasted 

[Effes]

Fck me... is this whole sht about antis and pros getting worse or is it just me ?!

I’m losing all interest in posting because of GYBS and his likes to be honest jumping at every post criticizing the poster with 1liner bullsht posts that basically question loyalty or quite simply offer irrelevant and tedious support to the manager/players... guess what GYBS, ur fcking boring mate, probably the most boring, clueless poster these boards have ever seen..

My indictment of the rafa regime...

Well... he's been a terrific coach for us... we’re yet again one of the better sides in the continent and he's done a great job in making us one of the hardest sides to beat in world football at the moment... I think it was saint who said earlier that the one thing u look for in a manager is success and whether a manager would bring in any... now IMO, Benitez has taken us as far as he can... I don’t think he has what it takes to win us the league, which after all is our main hope/objective/whatever... his approach to the game is too negative at times, and add to that the fact that he thinks that a player can’t play 2 games in a row without somehow being rotated 3 times whilst at it... all the crrappy transfers.. etc etc... Would take a lot of things going our way at once for us to become champions under him imo...

I don’t think he should or could be sacked this season quite simply because we’re still in it and its pretty late to bring someone in and hope for an instant impact because even that might not be enough for us to win it this season... Starting next season though, I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea at all if we start off with a new manager... not to milk it or anything but mourinho would be a fantastic man to have in charge... not that i think it could/will happen, just that i cant seem to think of many others who wouldnt be (risks) if you will... Gullit is another one I find pretty interesting but I won’t go there now...

Anyways... hope everyone is having a good night

Whereas "Rafa is sh*t", "Rafa has taken us as far as he can", "Rafa doesn't have what it takes", "Rafa will never win the league" is the most exciting literature ever produced...

Pr*ck.

In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. According to Wade, Tavris (2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else

[bigmick]

I would say to anyone though who doesn't want to read any anti Rafa comments, have a look at the thread title before you go in. I remember a thread we had a week or som which implored you to do so. "Don't come in unless blah blah blah". This one is not so obvious as that, but the thread title does kind of give it away.

It's a bit like the thread in Premiership General discussion which is about Mourinho. As I said earlier, if you don't want to read about Mourinho or debate Mourinho, best not to go in it. It's not that difficult really surely

[aCe']

Fck me... is this whole sht about antis and pros getting worse or is it just me ?!

I’m losing all interest in posting because of GYBS and his likes to be honest jumping at every post criticizing the poster with 1liner bullsht posts that basically question loyalty or quite simply offer irrelevant and tedious support to the manager/players... guess what GYBS, ur fcking boring mate, probably the most boring, clueless poster these boards have ever seen..

My indictment of the rafa regime...

Well... he's been a terrific coach for us... we’re yet again one of the better sides in the continent and he's done a great job in making us one of the hardest sides to beat in world football at the moment... I think it was saint who said earlier that the one thing u look for in a manager is success and whether a manager would bring in any... now IMO, Benitez has taken us as far as he can... I don’t think he has what it takes to win us the league, which after all is our main hope/objective/whatever... his approach to the game is too negative at times, and add to that the fact that he thinks that a player can’t play 2 games in a row without somehow being rotated 3 times whilst at it... all the crrappy transfers.. etc etc... Would take a lot of things going our way at once for us to become champions under him imo...

I don’t think he should or could be sacked this season quite simply because we’re still in it and its pretty late to bring someone in and hope for an instant impact because even that might not be enough for us to win it this season... Starting next season though, I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea at all if we start off with a new manager... not to milk it or anything but mourinho would be a fantastic man to have in charge... not that i think it could/will happen, just that i cant seem to think of many others who wouldnt be (risks) if you will... Gullit is another one I find pretty interesting but I won’t go there now...

Anyways... hope everyone is having a good night

Whereas "Rafa is sh*t", "Rafa has taken us as far as he can", "Rafa doesn't have what it takes", "Rafa will never win the league" is the most exciting literature ever produced...

Pr*ck.

i didnt say rafa is sht..

anyways... its my opinion so if u got any decent input besides ur usual sluutty nonsense i suggest u either put it out or just stick to posting in general chat...

ur just ruining a good footie thread here dumbo now hush hush back to bed its pretty late u dont wanna miss school tomorrow...

[Scottbot]

I think that until the end of the season we'll have a dimmer switch in the reactions. If we are on top or two points away, this will be a Rafa can't be criticised forum. If we fall to 6 points off the table this will be a Rafa can't be defended forum.

Think that's a pretty accurate prediction mate...

[Lando_Griffin]

Fck me... is this whole sht about antis and pros getting worse or is it just me ?!

I’m losing all interest in posting because of GYBS and his likes to be honest jumping at every post criticizing the poster with 1liner bullsht posts that basically question loyalty or quite simply offer irrelevant and tedious support to the manager/players... guess what GYBS, ur fcking boring mate, probably the most boring, clueless poster these boards have ever seen..

My indictment of the rafa regime...

Well... he's been a terrific coach for us... we’re yet again one of the better sides in the continent and he's done a great job in making us one of the hardest sides to beat in world football at the moment... I think it was saint who said earlier that the one thing u look for in a manager is success and whether a manager would bring in any... now IMO, Benitez has taken us as far as he can... I don’t think he has what it takes to win us the league, which after all is our main hope/objective/whatever... his approach to the game is too negative at times, and add to that the fact that he thinks that a player can’t play 2 games in a row without somehow being rotated 3 times whilst at it... all the crrappy transfers.. etc etc... Would take a lot of things going our way at once for us to become champions under him imo...

I don’t think he should or could be sacked this season quite simply because we’re still in it and its pretty late to bring someone in and hope for an instant impact because even that might not be enough for us to win it this season... Starting next season though, I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea at all if we start off with a new manager... not to milk it or anything but mourinho would be a fantastic man to have in charge... not that i think it could/will happen, just that i cant seem to think of many others who wouldnt be (risks) if you will... Gullit is another one I find pretty interesting but I won’t go there now...

Anyways... hope everyone is having a good night

Whereas "Rafa is sh*t", "Rafa has taken us as far as he can", "Rafa doesn't have what it takes", "Rafa will never win the league" is the most exciting literature ever produced...

Pr*ck.

In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. According to Wade, Tavris (2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else

According to Lando Griffin's "Life, Times and Tw*ts Almanac", a person who talks or acts like a prat should be told as much in no uncertain terms, as quickly and as brutally as utterly possible. Was it not Walter Tell who said; "F*ckin' 'ell, Dad - watch me 'ed, you b*starding c*nt!"?

I believe it was...

[tonyeh]

For me, I look back at the majority of our performances this season, I look at some of the team selections, the substitutions and some very bizarre decisions and think to myself, how the f..u..c..k are we sitting two points off the top of the table but this is where we find ourselves.

The answer to that one is obvious and it's been said before. Utd were slow off the mark this year and both Chelsea and Arsenal have been a shadow of themselves.

If the latter two had continued the form from last season, we'd be duking it out with Villa for 4th spot. In fact, if Chelsea had continued their form from the beginning of this season, Liverpool would have been out of it.

Liverpool have not played well this season, I think most objective people would agree and it's only that the London teams have buggered their season more than us that we find ourselves just behind Utd at present.

What worries me, is that if we manage to somehow win the title this year, Benitez may see that as a justification for all the nonsense he's inflcted on the team during the season and continue that next season...but I don't think he'll get away with it two years in a row.

I look at the table and it still feels great to see Liverpool within spitting distance of another league win, but I know that that's largely in spite of Benitez, and not due to him. When I stop and reflect on all the silly points we threw away though, it maks my blood boil.