Liverpool FC Forum

[The Good Yank]

Pretty pointless, no?

I hear ya.  But the inevitible "We could have gotten Aguero" response usually follows.  Casting aside the wages and being in the Champions League.

[Thommo's perm]

Pretty pointless, no?

I hear ya.  But the inevitible "We could have gotten Aguero" response usually follows.  Casting aside the wages and being in the Champions League.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone would have done better than Carroll. Conjecture, hypothethis, opinion, woulda coulda shoulda, but no proof.
Its all a waste of time and effort. Hes here, hes a red, he deserves support. Leave all that sh'te to our detractors and enemies.
United we stand, united we spank tomorrow

[stmichael]

win this weekend and we're well in the mix, especially with norwich and west brom to come after that. beat united and we're three points behind them, and they've got city in the derby next. i seeroy evans has come out today and said that we can be well in the mix aswell. Former manager Roy Evans believes Liverpool are serious contenders to win the Premier  this season. The Reds have not won a top-flight title for 21 years, with rivals Manchester United lifting the Premier League 12 times during that period. The two sides meet on Saturday and Liverpool can close the gap on leaders United to three points with a win. Evans, Anfield boss between 1994 and 1998, insisted: "We could do it this year, never write Liverpool off. "Evans, 63, played, coached and managed at Liverpool during an illustrious 33-year spell which saw the Reds enjoy unprecedented success. They won 12 league titles, four European Cups, five FA Cups, five League Cups and the Uefa Cup twice. But the run of league titles ended in 1990 withmanager Kenny Dalglish at the helm. The Scot is back at Anfield after a 20-year absence and his second spell as manager has been backed financially by American owner John W Henry, who celebrates a year in charge on Saturday. Dalglish has spent £115m, bringing in Luis Suarez, Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson and Sebastian Coates.Evans believes that depth of investment and Dalglish's know-how makes Liverpool realistic title contenders. He said: "You have got to believe you can win it. There's no point being in it if you don't think you can win it, certainly at Liverpool's level - that's where you've got to be. "You've got to have in your mind that, if you went on a bit of a run, you have got a chance. "We've got to keep progressing. We could do it this year, never write Liverpool off. "Liverpool are going the right way, they are going forward - and I think it's been a fantastic year under John Henry. "Liverpool have beaten Manchester United in their last three Premier League meetings at Anfield, the latest being a 3-1 victory under Dalglish. But United have won six of their opening seven league games this season and, along with rivals Manchester City, seem to be the team to beat. Henry, who paid £300m forLiverpool, has set a top-four finish as a minimum target for Dalglish - and Evans believes that is realistic. He added: "Manchester United look strong and Manchester Cityare progressing but a few of the others seem to have dropped away. "Arsenal don't seem to be what they were and Tottenham are just starting to find their feet after a slow start. If we can get ourselves in that top four where we should be, that will be great progress."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15234874.stm

[jimmy brighton]

If we were even discussing things like this 12 months ago,I would of thought I had died and gone to heaven. Amazing how the last year has gone. Time to thank NESV, and of course the king too.YNWA

Nice comment. Nice to see someone looking at things a little more realistically.

Reading back at posts on this topic the question of Carroll's worth keeps cropping up. The thing is we 'swapped' Torres and £9 million quid for Carroll and Suarez. Now to me that's a good piece of business as Torres had been off the boil for some considerable time. In fact nearly a year later and he still hasn't set Stamford bridge alight (although he does seem to be getting closer). We get an absolute star in Suarez and a striker who has the capability but has yet to find it on a consistent basis.

I just wish people would forget about his price tag. It's silly and it's stupid.

[Igor Zidane]

Pretty pointless, no?

I hear ya.  But the inevitible "We could have gotten Aguero" response usually follows.  Casting aside the wages and being in the Champions League.

No we couldn't have the likes of aguero ,because unlike carroll he cost 35million , aguero and the likes cost 35 million plus over 100,000 grand a week wages . We can't offer champions league footy at the minute or can we offer the same wages as city and chelsea , so we have to shop at a different level .

[maguskwt]

Pretty pointless, no?

I hear ya.  But the inevitible "We could have gotten Aguero" response usually follows.  Casting aside the wages and being in the Champions League.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone would have done better than Carroll. Conjecture, hypothethis, opinion, woulda coulda shoulda, but no proof.
Its all a waste of time and effort. Hes here, hes a red, he deserves support. Leave all that sh'te to our detractors and enemies.
United we stand, united we spank tomorrow

mate... what are you a defence lawyer? no evidence? no proof? this is a forum to debate. Put up or shut up? I don't think I'm being unfairly critical here.

If you want evidence, here it is...

Name: Craig Bellamy
Position: Striker
Fee: free
Case:
In the 2 games I've seen him play, one league cup and one league game, he has had alot more overall impact than Carroll ever had in a single game.

another one...

Name: Luis Suarez
Position: Striker
Fee: 10 million less than Carroll
Case:
How can you argue against this guy?

There you go... it's called learning from precedence...

If I were a full time professional scout, I would be able to give you names, but I'm not so I can't. But the proverbial ''put up or shut up'' is lame, lazy and prevents objectivbe debate...

but the fact remains that Kenny & Co over-estimated Carroll's talents and overpaid for it. I'd rather during that January window we only bought Suarez and only in the summer properly scan for more appropriate transfer targets and spend the money we got for Judas. Having said that I'm not gonna stop supporting Carroll, I think he has alot of potential and I'm a believer in players improving. But I don't like over-obsession on british talent. I'm not saying Kenny is doing that but he's borderline from what we've seen in the summer.

PS. Among the numerous new players we brought in under Kenny, the ones that has the most impact, at least until now, is a Uruguyan and a Spaniard... and perhaps Downing...

[Thommo's perm]

Pretty pointless, no?

I hear ya.  But the inevitible "We could have gotten Aguero" response usually follows.  Casting aside the wages and being in the Champions League.

There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone would have done better than Carroll. Conjecture, hypothethis, opinion, woulda coulda shoulda, but no proof.
Its all a waste of time and effort. Hes here, hes a red, he deserves support. Leave all that sh'te to our detractors and enemies.
United we stand, united we spank tomorrow

mate... what are you a defence lawyer? no evidence? no proof? this is a forum to debate. Put up or shut up? I don't think I'm being unfairly critical here.

If you want evidence, here it is...

Name: Craig Bellamy
Position: Striker
Fee: free
Case:
In the 2 games I've seen him play, one league cup and one league game, he has had alot more overall impact than Carroll ever had in a single game.

another one...

Name: Luis Suarez
Position: Striker
Fee: 10 million less than Carroll
Case:
How can you argue against this guy?

There you go... it's called learning from precedence...

If I were a full time professional scout, I would be able to give you names, but I'm not so I can't. But the proverbial ''put up or shut up'' is lame, lazy and prevents objectivbe debate...

but the fact remains that Kenny & Co over-estimated Carroll's talents and overpaid for it. I'd rather during that January window we only bought Suarez and only in the summer properly scan for more appropriate transfer targets and spend the money we got for Judas. Having said that I'm not gonna stop supporting Carroll, I think he has alot of potential and I'm a believer in players improving. But I don't like over-obsession on british talent. I'm not saying Kenny is doing that but he's borderline from what we've seen in the summer.

PS. Among the numerous new players we brought in under Kenny, the ones that has the most impact, at least until now, is a Uruguyan and a Spaniard... and perhaps Downing...

I am not trying to prevent objective debate. I was merely asking you for some proof to back up your argument that Carroll is a waste of money.
I dont agree with this argument and I asked you to name me someone who would have done better. You havent, because you cant. There is no proof that anyone could have had a better impact. We may surmise, assume or wish all we want but we can only imagine because the fact is we have Carroll and thats that.
I find this obsession with his price tag (like KK) rather boring and useless and I would like people to lower their expectations and put aside their concerns over how much he cost.
Its really not important. Honestly. I dont give a sh'it what his nationality is, I just accept he is here and he will get better. I have far more of a problem with the impact of Lucas than Carroll

[maguskwt]

I am not trying to prevent objective debate. I was merely asking you for some proof to back up your argument that Carroll is a waste of money.
I dont agree with this argument and I asked you to name me someone who would have done better. You havent, because you cant. There is no proof that anyone could have had a better impact. We may surmise, assume or wish all we want but we can only imagine because the fact is we have Carroll and thats that.
I find this obsession with his price tag (like KK) rather boring and useless and I would like people to lower their expectations and put aside their concerns over how much he cost.
Its really not important. Honestly. I dont give a sh'it what his nationality is, I just accept he is here and he will get better. I have far more of a problem with the impact of Lucas than Carroll

I am not trying to prevent objective debate.

errmmm... yes you are...

I was merely asking you for some proof to back up your argument that Carroll is a waste of money.

I did not say that Carroll was a waste of money... but rather we overpaid for his kind of talent which if you are objective you would agree

You havent, because you cant. There is no proof that anyone could have had a better impact.

how can there be a proof of something that hasn't happened. therefore for asking this, you are preventing objective debate. However I have already pointed out to you that from precedence, we can see that there can be plenty of players who is more effective than Carroll who cost less. Therefore my argument of we have overpaid for Carroll is supported.

I find this obsession with his price tag (like KK) rather boring and useless

I am not obsessed with his price tag... but it's your prerogative to think otherwise...

I would like people to lower their expectations

nice one... If you just paid the transfer record for a british player, you shouldn't need to lower expectations

Its really not important. Honestly.

Honestly, that's what you think...

[ethanr]

Stepping aside from the pointless back and forth debate...

We need to make sure we go undefeated at home this season.  Last season we lost to Wolves, Blackpool and spurs at home.  That's easily 7 points lost, and 7 points will make a huge difference this season.  A bit more consistency and we'll be alright.  Losing away to stoke and spurs will happen.. 2 very hard away fixtures.  We just need to stop conceding so much at home and we'll be alright.

[Thommo's perm]

I am not trying to prevent objective debate. I was merely asking you for some proof to back up your argument that Carroll is a waste of money.
I dont agree with this argument and I asked you to name me someone who would have done better. You havent, because you cant. There is no proof that anyone could have had a better impact. We may surmise, assume or wish all we want but we can only imagine because the fact is we have Carroll and thats that.
I find this obsession with his price tag (like KK) rather boring and useless and I would like people to lower their expectations and put aside their concerns over how much he cost.
Its really not important. Honestly. I dont give a sh'it what his nationality is, I just accept he is here and he will get better. I have far more of a problem with the impact of Lucas than Carroll

I am not trying to prevent objective debate.

errmmm... yes you are...

I was merely asking you for some proof to back up your argument that Carroll is a waste of money.

I did not say that Carroll was a waste of money... but rather we overpaid for his kind of talent which if you are objective you would agree

You havent, because you cant. There is no proof that anyone could have had a better impact.

how can there be a proof of something that hasn't happened. therefore for asking this, you are preventing objective debate. However I have already pointed out to you that from precedence, we can see that there can be plenty of players who is more effective than Carroll who cost less. Therefore my argument of we have overpaid for Carroll is supported.

I find this obsession with his price tag (like KK) rather boring and useless

I am not obsessed with his price tag... but it's your prerogative to think otherwise...

I would like people to lower their expectations

nice one... If you just paid the transfer record for a british player, you shouldn't need to lower expectations

Its really not important. Honestly.

Honestly, that's what you think...

I cant be ar'sed going through all that. The one point I will pick up on is you saying youre not obsessed with Carrolls price tag and in the very next sentence point out that he is the British transfer record...hmmm
You are obviously also obsessed with the idea that I am stifling objective debate. Fair enough, thats up to you. I just find the "overpaid" argument boring and pointless and it has a negative effect on what is to me a very good start to the season. I would rather wait until may, or january at the least to start directly or indirectly criticising the manager and his signings.

[alwayslfc]

I'd say Roy Evans was living in Wonderland to say that Liverpool can win the PL this season. Yes, we should play with a die hard attitude of chasing the top 3 but at the moment MCity, Man U and Chelsea are miles ahead of the rest in terms of quality players, funds and assurance of CL qualification. 4th spot will be a vicious contest between Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle, Villa and possibly Arsenal. With the way things are going, I think Spurs could pip us for 4th and we could finish 5th or even 6th again if Newcastle, Villa and Arsenal keep on winning their games. Other than Manure and City, Newcastle is the only unbeaten side so far. This is just statistics but it's still early days.

We've certainly improved in terms of play compare to last campaign but I'd still say other than Suarez and Stevie, the team is full of overpriced above average players. We also have vacancy position for a right winger and Hendo, Kuyt are not natural right wingers. Downing looks better playing as a left winger, and we need to sign a quality right winger and another quality central defender in January if we're to stand any chance of catching up with the top 3.

[jacdaniel]

Just examined the table a little there and we're certainly still on course.  Would be nice if we had an extra 3 or 4 points but we need to look forward and not back.

Cant see Newcastle staying were they are for much longer and we're still ahead of Spurs and Arsenal with 2 winable games coming up.

As others mentioned, its kinda nice too see United so happy leaving Anfield with a point.

[alwayslfc]

[quote]

I remember the Liverpool team were like them in season 97/98 when we grabbed an equaliser from Owen at O.T. for a 1-1 draw and the players looked satisfied and relief with a draw.

[tubby]

5th place at best I reckon. Put it this way, at least we will be back in Europe next season. 

[Thommo's perm]

5th place at best I reckon. Put it this way, at least we will be back in Europe next season. 

We can still win it