Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:32 pm

What did he show in the Euro's we haven't already seen?

Can someone please explain?

All this talk of him starting the season ahead of Owen is nonsense. It should be between Cisse and Baros who partners Owen.

When you start the season everyone starts on an equal. You pick your best players for the first game as they could start the season in blistering form. If after a few games they aren't performing thats when its time to ring the changes.

by **banana** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:36 pm

Your statements simply do not make sense. Stop being silly. Judge a player by his skills, not by his name or passport. By the way, Baros and Cisse has now much bigger names and reputation than Owen.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:38 pm

What are you on about?

And what on earth has a passport to do with anything?

Please explain.

by **chiggz_likes_owen** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:39 pm

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:41 pm

banana wrote:By the way, Baros and Cisse has now much bigger names and reputation than Owen.

that's garbage mate. baros and cisse bigger names than owen? in letters maybe.

by **banana** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:50 pm

You say about Baros
1. What did he show in the Euro's we haven't already seen?

I agree that we to some extent have seen his abilities in a red shirt. Alas, he was not allowed to shine for us since Foolier used out of form players ahead of him. If he scores for fun against Germany and Holland. I think he might score a few against Porthsmouth.

2. You Say
All this talk of him starting the season ahead of Owen is nonsense. It should be between Cisse and Baros who partners Owen.

This is ******. Let the manager decide who to play. Get behind the team. And what do you have against Baros?

3. Then you say
When you start the season everyone starts on an equal. You pick your best players for the first game as they could start the season in blistering form. If after a few games they aren't performing thats when its time to ring the changes.

This is very true. But it is also a contradiction to your previous statements since you favor certain players anyway.

And Stmichael. In the british isles or thereabouts Owen has a big name. In the rest of the world, not so much anymore.

by **JBG** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:55 pm

stu_the_red wrote:All this talk of him starting the season ahead of Owen is nonsense. It should be between Cisse and Baros who partners Owen.

When you start the season everyone starts on an equal.

Er, Stu, you say that everyone should start equally at the start of the season but also say that Baros and Cisse should battle it out to play alongside Owen?

I think Baros deserves a chance, and I don't think he'll be happy to sit on the sidelines anymore.

However, I do see Stu's point and Baros hasn't suddenly become a world class player overnight. He is the same player he was at Liverpool last year, but got a great opportunity to show his talents at Euro 2004.

He deserves a run in the team next season, and chances are, with Owen's regular injuries, he will probably get that run.

However, while I don't know Baros as a person, from what I have heard of his interviews in the Czech media I get the impression that he is a very self confident guy and sitting on the bench at Anfield is not his cup of tea.

I was a strong critic of Houllier over the past 12 months, but he has left some positives, one of them being Baros.

by **African-red** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:00 pm

Let's face the truth. Owen is bigger than Baros on reputation. Owen is a good player (I hope it won't soon "WAS") but he's not shine last season and in the Euro. Well Baros had few games last season and when given the games he also did not shine. He over ran the balls most of the time. Too quick for the ball I guess. But Baros did shine in the Euro. Well all that is left to see is who will come up tops coming season. But I am very worried about Owen and very sympathetic towards him. He really looks like a shadow of himself. At times, we can say he cost us very necessary points last season. Let's see what Milan will have to offer if he stays.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:05 pm

Lets just drop this Owen or Baros argument. We all 'know' that Owen has a lot of pull with the board. He might even put some clause in his contract whereby he has to start certain number of games.

As you can see, i am not a huge owen fan. It is just that for the past 2 seasons he has disappointed a lot. Esp last year where penalty after penalty was missed. And since that fool foolier built his system around owen, liverpool eventually sufferred. But i have to give him another season to show us that he is the pacy lethal striker we all love. In my view in 2001, Owen was the best goal scoring striker in the world.

But if you go by form, then Cisse & Baros has to start the opening game as owen is massively off-form.

by **ckay** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:16 pm

He was a pacey stricker. He now seems to worried to show his speed incase he pulls another hamstring!

He plays like he's scared!

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:17 pm

Anyone who thinks he is not the player he was should look at his record. Owen's goal tally has gone from 23, 23 (then the hamstring injury-hit season), then 24, 28 and 28. Last season it was 19, but he was only two goals short, with 17, of his best league total, despite missing a quarter of the league campaign and playing in a team lacking direction and nowhere near as good as the top sides (who were an embarrassing 15-30 points ahead); and also a side that didn't progress in any of the cups (and these days he doesn't line up against the poor sides in the League Cup, where he would score hat-tricks in his early years).

The Liverpool side during recent seasons has played to some of his strengths (long quick passes) but also failed to deliver a variety of chances - no one gets to the byline to pull the ball back, for example, and there have been too few hard-and-low crosses from either flank. The style of play became increasingly predictable, making it easier to stop him. Yet still he scored at the same impressive ratio. And still he more-often-than-not scores in the big games - he has his entire career. It is a mark of his quality. He will never be the best striker in the world; but he will always be in and around the top ten.

by **ckay** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:23 pm

Only time will tell.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:29 pm

Willing to give him a season to prove me wrong

. But there is 1 problem. Owen did not seem to like it to play 2nd fiddle to Rooney at euro champs. In fact he played his best games only when rooney was out (led the front-line well).

How would he react if cisse comes and gets all the headlines/credits/goals....?

Cisse is some sort of prima donna himself.

by **African-red** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:31 pm

stmichael, be realistic. Really look at the tapes of Owen's performance that past two seasons and then tells us if you don't notice the difference to the Owen we once knew. This guys keep blaming the team for poor results and give credit to Owen amidst it all. Tell me was the team holding Owen when he was kicking penalties? I guess not. A great player is one that carries the team not one that blames the team for a poor season. Gerrard can get credit because his involvement was visible million miles away. I bet Owen has got his tail between the legs after the EURO. There was too much fuss about him leaving the club, guess what, the offers were not coming anymore after EURO. He retracted into his shell. I really hope he will come up shining but please guys don't try convince us that Owen is as good as two seasons ago. I know he's human too and a fallible one for that matter

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:35 pm

Yes, he had stinkers last season, but then so will all strikers (I can recall a few last season from Shearer and Van Nistelrooy, and even games where Henry couldn't hit a barn door; Fowler in his pomp was no different). Owen has had them his entire career; he is human, after all. It's just that lately, with Liverpool misfiring on too many cylinders, and no other striker scoring goals, his bad games seemed to cost us dear. Yes, he should stop with the penalties; they generate a lot of the negative press that surrounds him and affect his confidence, but I understand why he takes them: he wants goals, and goals improve his confidence. It just tended to work the wrong way last season. His greatest strength, however, is that he continues to put himself in the firing line; if he misses five chances in a game, he'll still look to score with number six. He doesn't hide.

When off-form Owen seems to miss a lot of chances to score his goals (a symptom of any striker off-colour), but add together his chances in Rome, in Cardiff, and in Munich, and it equals seven opportunities, seven goals. That sums him up: when on-form, no one scores more from fewer chances. Meanwhile, it was Henry missing countless chances in the FA Cup Final. Michael's strength is mental toughness. He doesn't want to score great goals, he just wants to score any goal; he'd prefer nine scrappy tap-ins to eight wonder strikes. It's only better when the stage is bigger. Only then do the goals tend to count double, and he loses himself in his celebrations. Providing the team wins, of course.

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