Liverpool FC Forum

[damjan193]

Seriously, when was the last time when a "one for the future" turned out?

I don't know whether that was meant as sarcasm... but thats exactly my point.

The only time I've ever heard that and seen a player become a success after being labelled that was when Wenger signed Vieira... and to be quite honest, the first time I seen that lad play he absolutely oozed class and looked an absolute world beater. Sure enough, thats what he turned out to be. If Hughes is half as good as Vieira I'll go and pick the lad up from Derby myself and even stop at the services on the way back and buy the lad a KFC.

Its another one of these cliche sayings though, that always gets found out. That would be one of the main worries. A bit like the, he'll be class in six months comments.... or the... wait till he's experienced comments. They all amount to the same things, which are making excuses for players who aren't upto it.

The main question I'd have of Will Hughes, is if he is "that good" IE top bracket, like Gerrard or the likes... then why hasn't he been snapped up earlier, their was clear interest from alot of clubs in the premier league so it would suggest he's certainly able to play at this level. My suspicions are (bearing in mind I haven't seen the lad play so I'm not stating this as fact ) he's probably a decent premier league standard player, but not the type who'll improve a top 10 side and certainly not a top 4 side.

Wasn't trying to be sarcastic at all. It's actually a legit question. When was the last time we signed a kid for the future and he came out good few seasons after? Maybe Lucas but that's about it.

When we sign this kind of players and they are good they usually settle in our starting 11 right away, not a few years after we sign them.

[Kenny Kan]

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

it`s a massive concern and not just on these boards, if you go to any other liverpool forum everyone is saying the same thing.
we can get away with it against the so called lesser teams because our strikers force their midfielders to concentrate on their defensive duties but against the better sides in the division our midfield is woefully inadequate.

[Benny The Noon]

It's not strong enough and it's not creative enough. Needs reinforcing badly during Jan and then further in the summer.

[red till i die!!]

that system makes our midfield worse than it actually is and unless the personnel is available then we shouldnt be trying it. we would be much better off with coutinho and moses occupying both wings with SAS up front.
id keep gerrard in that system as he is capable of a moment of genius whereas the other 2 aren't. with a bit more pace and creativity around him he might raise his game a notch.

                                                      mingy
kelly/johnson             toure                        skrtel           enrique/sakho

                                                    agger
moses                                  gerrard                        coutinho
                                sturridge          suarez

agger would be a good shout in DM as he has a bit of pace about him, strong in the tackle and can run with a ball. he also has a cracker of a shot on him and could net a few goals from clearances.

[JC_81]

I'd be giving Allen a run in the team before I'd play Agger in midfield to be honest.

If Allen could come in and play like he did his first ten games or so for us he could make a difference.  Not sure he's the answer in the long run though.

I'd try the following...

                                                   Mignolet

Johnson                        Toure/Skrtel          Agger                  Enrique

                                                    Allen
                       
                                     Henderson       Gerrard

                                                  Coutinho     

                                      Suarez              Sturridge

Maybe a bit narrow at times, but if our first choice full backs are fit then they are good at getting forward.  Allen and Henderson are our most mobile midfielders, while Gerrard and Coutinho are our most creative.  For away games we could consider putting Lucas in for Gerrard.  If Allen does play I'd always have him as the deepest midfielder.  His strength is setting the tempo and receiving the ball off the defence, his poor form last season coincided with Lucas' return when he was pushed further up the pitch. 

Of course reverting to a back 4 means the dilemma of what to do with all the centre backs we bought in the summer!

I also think going into games with the above formation with Flanagan and Cissokho at full back would be suicide.  Without cover in front or a third CB as insurance they'd get roasted.

Bottom line is we need a change in personnel in midfield.  What we have simply isn't good enough if we're serious about progressing.

[Benny The Noon]

Agger is a CB not a DM , there has been a fascination to play him at DM for years now.

As for the fullbacks I would play Kelly at RB and Johnson until Enrique is fit.

For the midfield they need to play as a three - Lucas sitting in the centre with Gerrard Henderson either side of him IMO - I can't see any other options. We could give Ilori a go alongside Lucas as he has played there before.

[eds]

Agger is a CB not a DM , there has been a fascination to play him at DM for years now.

As for the fullbacks I would play Kelly at RB and Johnson until Enrique is fit.

For the midfield they need to play as a three - Lucas sitting in the centre with Gerrard Henderson either side of him IMO - I can't see any other options. We could give Ilori a go alongside Lucas as he has played there before.

I would like to see what Ilori can do as a defensive midfielder as well Benny.

[red till i die!!]

Agger is a CB not a DM , there has been a fascination to play him at DM for years now.

As for the fullbacks I would play Kelly at RB and Johnson until Enrique is fit.

For the midfield they need to play as a three - Lucas sitting in the centre with Gerrard Henderson either side of him IMO - I can't see any other options. We could give Ilori a go alongside Lucas as he has played there before.

I would like to see what Ilori can do as a defensive midfielder as well Benny.

the personnel in midfield has to change, just because its 4-3-3 isnt going to magically give lucas and gerrard that extra yard.
llori is also a CB, maybe he played there once or twice before for some other team it hardly gives him a better shout over agger imo. he's only 20 and isnt involved in the set up much never mind having  played in the prem before. at this moment in time we need to improve that position, not throw some kid in to sink or swim.
agger for me has enough attributes to play there, can win a tackle, defensive mindset, can pass and carry a ball and as a bonus he can shoot.
id give allen a shout over llori also but imo allen isnt strong or physical enough for it either.
if you's are willing to gamble on llori then i dont understand why you's wouldnt go with the safer bet in agger.

[damjan193]

During the game yesterday Henderson got himself into positions where he dragged few midfielders around him. This is why I gave him higher ratings than Lucas and Gerrard, although he did look gutless for the entire game. Now when he dragged those players, it is natural that he has to get rid of the ball and pass it to another midfielder who would then have a lot of space to move. This is something that Arsenal did as well. It's a very basic strategy. The difference was, for us it didn't work because Gerrard couldn't be arsed to make a damn run! I remember a situation, Henderson runs with the ball, drags 2 or 3 players, passes the ball on his right (where Gerrard should be) without looking and we lose possession. Why? Because Gerrard was too busy walking with Lucas just in front our back 3! I'm not surprised that Toure and Sakho have had more forward runs than him.

Lucas isn't better either though. He's good with his tackling and can even make a pass sometimes but he has either set some limits by himself or he's been told to do that. For example, he makes a tackle, wins the ball, passes it to Flanagan and instead of running forward so he could play a 1-2 with Flanagan (because Gerrard is too deep while Henderson physically can't be everywhere) he stays at his spot, not going any further than the half way line. It's like he's saying "nah mate, that ain't my job". Flanagan, being the limited full-back that he is, has no other option but to pass it back to Toure.

My point is, the movement and positioning of our midfielders is horrible. They might have good abilities (Lucas tackling and defending in general, Gerrard passing) but they are obviously not very good tactically. With situations like the ones I mentioned above happening all the time yesterday, it is no surprise that the midfield couldn't connect with our attack. Something needs to be done about this. Bringing in Allan or Alberto instead of someone might be worth a try.

[Benny The Noon]

Agger has never played as a DM in his career , he is a CB , can see why people might think it could be worth him player because of his ability on the ball but I have a feeling it won't suit him and that's why he hasn't played there before

Ilori has played there before and against Fulham it is certainly worth the risk to play him.

[stmichael]

The problem is, the system with 3 at the back relies on the midfield having control. It will work against the weaker sides but not against better teams as shown on saturday. And especially not when we have our two first choice fullbacks missing to play in that system. I genuinely felt sorry for Flanagan being thrown in at the deep end like that. Oh and in this system Daniel Agger simply has to come back into the side.

I'd switch back to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.

[Stu the Red]

it`s a massive concern and not just on these boards, if you go to any other liverpool forum everyone is saying the same thing.
we can get away with it against the so called lesser teams because our strikers force their midfielders to concentrate on their defensive duties but against the better sides in the division our midfield is woefully inadequate.

Its clear you think that its all about Gerrard (still one of our better players) and a player who would still get into just about every other side in the league.

So I'm going to put it a different way, Gerrard isn't great at tracking runners. We've established he's lost pace and obviously fitness over the last couple of years.

So why are we insisting in asking him to do this?

Instead of slagging off one of our best players, why not have a go at the tactics?

Why are we playing a game thats exposing our midfield to the threat of midfield runners?

Why aren't we playing a game that stops the oppositions midfield running through our own?

[SouthCoastShankly]

Agger has never played as a DM in his career , he is a CB , can see why people might think it could be worth him player because of his ability on the ball but I have a feeling it won't suit him and that's why he hasn't played there before

Ilori has played there before and against Fulham it is certainly worth the risk to play him.

I personally don't think it is worth the risk. Arsenal aside we have been playing well enough to maintain the existing set up. I don't think the set up is broken and as such no need to rock the boat by changing it.

I suspect the best opportunity to start to tinker with the set up will be in January when the FA Cup starts up (subject to the opponents we draw of course).

[stmichael]

Yeah agree with that. Gerrard is not the problem, it's the way he's being used that is the problem. Funnily enough I heard that he may have a knock and if that is the case I'd rest him for Fulham and bring Allen back.