Liverpool FC Forum

[Big Niall]

I agree that Roy Evans had the last team worth watching from a good football point of view, he had to be sacked though as the team was a soft touch in physical games, spice boys etc. We could have won the league one year though if not for David James.

I don't think Heskey or Saunders were supposed to be creative, they weren't cheap either , both close to British records.

It is a pity that Roy evans attack couldn't be combined with Houlliers defense. My mates are Manure and Arsenal fans and I can't really argue that they play much better football.

I think Rafa is defensive and negative, lacks confidence in the team and over analyises opponents like Wigan. I don't think Ferguson or Wenger give lower teams much thought tactically and just think if we do our stuff , we win.

IN fact, I don't know how good Ferguson is technically, only won one Euro cup so might get shown up against the top teams in Europe but he buys good players and lets them play freely week in/week out knowing they are good enough to beat most teams in the premiership.

[NiftyNeil]

There have been plenty of seasons when the squad has been good enough to win the league, so to blame the quality of the signings wide of the mark. It's all down to how the squad is managed and how the players perform as a team. It's well known that Chelsea bought a team of proven internationals for big money and delivered two league titles, but what about Arsenal and Man U?
Man U have won title after title since 1993, but they've done it as a team. Take last season, they won the League with John O'Shea and Michael Carrick in midfield plus an ageing Paul Scholes - they hardly compare to our "greatest midfield in the world" do they? How many times do people slag off Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown? - yet good enough to star in a title wiining side. Who did they have up front last season? Rooney and who? It didn't stop them scoring though. Imaging how many goals Bellamy, Kuyt and Crouch would of scored in that team. Even Park Ji Sun was on the score sheet a few times last year. That's just last season, I'm not even going to go into the times they won it with legends like Phil Neville, Nicky Butt and Andy Cole.
This year Arsenal are top of the league with a load of players that most people hadn't heard of two years ago.
This year our squad is good enough, but we're never going to win the league by chopping and changing players and formations every single game. We're never going to win the league by playing 4-3-3 (translates as 4-5-1 for most of the game) with Kuyt and Couch on the wing. I'm sick of hearing that the squad is not good enough, or that Hicks and Gillet need to get their hands in their pockets. I believe that if Ferguson or Wenger had this squad, then we would be running away with the league. We've got the best IMHO goalkeeper in the league, the best midfield in the league, the best stiker in the league and when Agger gets back, I also think that we have the best defence (centre back duo). That gives us the perfect spine of a team which should afford us less than perfect wingers and full backs.

[Sean]

If you look at United teams from Fergies first four years in charge ('86 to '90), apart from from Jesper Olsen their wing options were limited.  They were fortunate to win the F.A. Cup in 1990 and Fergie was lucky to have kept his job.  Then, I remember in 1991 Fergie started playing Lee Sharpe on the left wing.  He was 17 years of age and on fire as United won the European Cup Winners Cup.  I reckon Fergie decided around this time that his teams would be built with an attacking philosophy.

At the beginning of the 91/92 season he started playing Andrei Kanchelskis on the right wing with Sharpe or Giggs on the left.  It worked brilliantly.  They should have won the league but were pipped by Leeds.  The following year they made no mistake and haven't looked back since.  Since discovering the winning formula Fergie has never deviated from the template of attacking football.  Except for Giggs the ingredients have changed.  Rooney is his new Mark Hughes, Vidic the new Bruce, Ferdinand the new Pallister.

Fergie does not over analyse the opposition.  He simply sends his team out with a licence to express themselves and ultimately to outscore the opposition.  Sure, he has often got caught out by the better teams in Europe but thats another debate.  In the premiership the Fergie template works almost every time.  Football should be a simple game.  Every United player always knows exactly what his role is when he runs out onto the pitch, simply because his role remains the same every week.  At Liverpool, we change personnel and formation so much it only succeeds in breeding confusion.

[Roger Red Hat]

There have been plenty of seasons when the squad has been good enough to win the league, so to blame the quality of the signings wide of the mark. It's all down to how the squad is managed and how the players perform as a team. It's well known that Chelsea bought a team of proven internationals for big money and delivered two league titles, but what about Arsenal and Man U?
Man U have won title after title since 1993, but they've done it as a team. Take last season, they won the League with John O'Shea and Michael Carrick in midfield plus an ageing Paul Scholes - they hardly compare to our "greatest midfield in the world" do they? How many times do people slag off Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown? - yet good enough to star in a title wiining side. Who did they have up front last season? Rooney and who? It didn't stop them scoring though. Imaging how many goals Bellamy, Kuyt and Crouch would of scored in that team. Even Park Ji Sun was on the score sheet a few times last year. That's just last season, I'm not even going to go into the times they won it with legends like Phil Neville, Nicky Butt and Andy Cole.
This year Arsenal are top of the league with a load of players that most people hadn't heard of two years ago.
This year our squad is good enough, but we're never going to win the league by chopping and changing players and formations every single game. We're never going to win the league by playing 4-3-3 (translates as 4-5-1 for most of the game) with Kuyt and Couch on the wing. I'm sick of hearing that the squad is not good enough, or that Hicks and Gillet need to get their hands in their pockets. I believe that if Ferguson or Wenger had this squad, then we would be running away with the league. We've got the best IMHO goalkeeper in the league, the best midfield in the league, the best stiker in the league and when Agger gets back, I also think that we have the best defence (centre back duo). That gives us the perfect spine of a team which should afford us less than perfect wingers and full backs.

nail well and truely hit on the fking head there -  that was good!

[Owzat]

For all the faults under roy evans I agree that side was great to watch.  Entertaining, full of creativity, flair and pace.  Thats the way we should be playing.

thats true

and also back then we could up our game against the best teams and beat them whilst playing really well

our downfall was against the craap teams, were we would often underachieve

But we never won anything . Its great to have a flair team with flair pace and yes creativity but if your not winning trophys what good is it .
Remember Newcastle under Keegan so much creativity and pace and flair but what did they win

The old Spurs side with Hoddle and Archibald also Ardilless and the West Hams yes good to watch but what what did they achieve Nothin

Evans had 4 seasons after taking over a side in crisis under souness.  He didnt win anything but still kept us in a title race longer than houllier or rafa has done.  No players under Houllier or rafa so far can honestly say "that year we should have won the title".  The players under Evans all look back and openly admit they should have won the title and blew it.

Evans from memory finished 3rd twice and 4th twice, one of those 4th places was level with 2nd as I recall

[Owzat]

I think one problem our managers bring upon the club is they want a player and don't necessarily get best value or even opt out. Are we critical of the Heskey transfer because he was cr ap or because he cost £11m? Same for Diouf and other players who were less than huge successes.

[mart]

I think one problem our managers bring upon the club is they want a player and don't necessarily get best value or even opt out. Are we critical of the Heskey transfer because he was cr ap or because he cost £11m? Same for Diouf and other players who were less than huge successes.

One other question is if we have the money for transfers, wages and if we can tempt top players with the proper amount of "glory" to come here. In recent years we have been linked with players like Alves, Mancini, Malouda, Ribery, Simao, Quaresma and others, but the transfers never come as the clubs wont sell, the player dont want to come or prefers another club. From what i understand even Torres had to take a wage cut when he came here.

[Big Niall]

If you look at United teams from Fergies first four years in charge ('86 to '90), apart from from Jesper Olsen their wing options were limited.  They were fortunate to win the F.A. Cup in 1990 and Fergie was lucky to have kept his job.  Then, I remember in 1991 Fergie started playing Lee Sharpe on the left wing.  He was 17 years of age and on fire as United won the European Cup Winners Cup.  I reckon Fergie decided around this time that his teams would be built with an attacking philosophy.

At the beginning of the 91/92 season he started playing Andrei Kanchelskis on the right wing with Sharpe or Giggs on the left.  It worked brilliantly.  They should have won the league but were pipped by Leeds.  The following year they made no mistake and haven't looked back since.  Since discovering the winning formula Fergie has never deviated from the template of attacking football.  Except for Giggs the ingredients have changed.  Rooney is his new Mark Hughes, Vidic the new Bruce, Ferdinand the new Pallister.

Fergie does not over analyse the opposition.  He simply sends his team out with a licence to express themselves and ultimately to outscore the opposition.  Sure, he has often got caught out by the better teams in Europe but thats another debate.  In the premiership the Fergie template works almost every time.  Football should be a simple game.  Every United player always knows exactly what his role is when he runs out onto the pitch, simply because his role remains the same every week.  At Liverpool, we change personnel and formation so much it only succeeds in breeding confusion.

Bang on

[The_Rock]

There have been plenty of seasons when the squad has been good enough to win the league, so to blame the quality of the signings wide of the mark. It's all down to how the squad is managed and how the players perform as a team. It's well known that Chelsea bought a team of proven internationals for big money and delivered two league titles, but what about Arsenal and Man U?
Man U have won title after title since 1993, but they've done it as a team. Take last season, they won the League with John O'Shea and Michael Carrick in midfield plus an ageing Paul Scholes - they hardly compare to our "greatest midfield in the world" do they? How many times do people slag off Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown? - yet good enough to star in a title wiining side. Who did they have up front last season? Rooney and who? It didn't stop them scoring though. Imaging how many goals Bellamy, Kuyt and Crouch would of scored in that team. Even Park Ji Sun was on the score sheet a few times last year. That's just last season, I'm not even going to go into the times they won it with legends like Phil Neville, Nicky Butt and Andy Cole.
This year Arsenal are top of the league with a load of players that most people hadn't heard of two years ago.
This year our squad is good enough, but we're never going to win the league by chopping and changing players and formations every single game. We're never going to win the league by playing 4-3-3 (translates as 4-5-1 for most of the game) with Kuyt and Couch on the wing. I'm sick of hearing that the squad is not good enough, or that Hicks and Gillet need to get their hands in their pockets. I believe that if Ferguson or Wenger had this squad, then we would be running away with the league. We've got the best IMHO goalkeeper in the league, the best midfield in the league, the best stiker in the league and when Agger gets back, I also think that we have the best defence (centre back duo). That gives us the perfect spine of a team which should afford us less than perfect wingers and full backs.

We do have a good squad. The spine is great (GK, CBs, CMs, and a Centre Forward). But i don't really like the wingers and fullbacks we have. If we just buy attacking and pacy fullbacks who can defend...and attacking wingers who can take on players and put in decent cross (and also chip in with their fair share of goals)...we will the best club in europe. But thats another story....

The squad in itself is good enough to challenge for the league (but not good enough to win it). If rafa just sets out the team to play to their potential and not chop and change the team too much (so that the players know what their "colleagues" are gonna do)...we would be closer to arsenal.

When we compare our central players with arsenal & manure...we beat them hands down. We lose to them as they have superior wing players. So its a tie.

The reason why then manure and arsenal are picking up so many points is because they go to win 3 points and not to "not lose".... As long as we go "not lose"....we will not win the league.

[The_Rock]

If you look at United teams from Fergies first four years in charge ('86 to '90), apart from from Jesper Olsen their wing options were limited.  They were fortunate to win the F.A. Cup in 1990 and Fergie was lucky to have kept his job.  Then, I remember in 1991 Fergie started playing Lee Sharpe on the left wing.  He was 17 years of age and on fire as United won the European Cup Winners Cup.  I reckon Fergie decided around this time that his teams would be built with an attacking philosophy.

At the beginning of the 91/92 season he started playing Andrei Kanchelskis on the right wing with Sharpe or Giggs on the left.  It worked brilliantly.  They should have won the league but were pipped by Leeds.  The following year they made no mistake and haven't looked back since.  Since discovering the winning formula Fergie has never deviated from the template of attacking football.  Except for Giggs the ingredients have changed.  Rooney is his new Mark Hughes, Vidic the new Bruce, Ferdinand the new Pallister.

Fergie does not over analyse the opposition.  He simply sends his team out with a licence to express themselves and ultimately to outscore the opposition.  Sure, he has often got caught out by the better teams in Europe but thats another debate.  In the premiership the Fergie template works almost every time.  Football should be a simple game.  Every United player always knows exactly what his role is when he runs out onto the pitch, simply because his role remains the same every week.  At Liverpool, we change personnel and formation so much it only succeeds in breeding confusion.

Awesome 

Hope this finally ends all this "and ho.....fergie had 7 years to build his dynasty...and rafa only has 4 years (and counting)"..... 

Houllier learnt the hard way that playing defensive does not work here.

[Bad Bob]

Houllier learnt the hard way that playing defensive does not work here.

Except if you're Chelsea, I guess.  They had a wealth of attacking talent but often resorted to grinding out results on the back of a rock solid defense + Makalele.  Can't argue with the results, though.

FWIW, I think we are much more in the Chelsea mould than in the Man U mould and I'd have no complaints if we accomplished what Mourinho's lads managed in the league over the past 3 seasons.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Im sorry, but I just don't buy this "we've got the best midfield in the world" thing!  We are nowhere close and I'll tell you why.

We potentially have the best central midfielders in the world, but our wingers are awful.  That 50% of the midfield. I agree with the original poster, although I feel we really only need one "ronaldo" esque type winger. 

My midfield would line up like this

Gerrard  Mascher Alonso  Sh!t hot new winger

Now that is the best midfield in the world

[LittleHobo]

Im sorry, but I just don't buy this "we've got the best midfield in the world" thing!  We are nowhere close and I'll tell you why.

We potentially have the best central midfielders in the world, but our wingers are awful.  That 50% of the midfield. I agree with the original poster, although I feel we really only need one "ronaldo" esque type winger. 

My midfield would line up like this

Gerrard  Mascher Alonso  Sh!t hot new winger

Now that is the best midfield in the world

dont think anyone has ever said we have the best midfield in the world

the best centre midfield maybe

our wingers are useless

and gerrard isnt happy on the wing so count him out

[jeff.capes]

there are really talented hungry africans who would be cheap but never seem to turn up at anfield.
we seem to always get  junk like salif diao or rigerbert song.

you look at the african finds ,people like essien and eto who eventually become big money players.
i know this will never happen because if my memory is correct valencia under rafa in spain had a specific look to them.

the same happens with south americans,everbody else get cheap players who become world stars we get strange south americans who are not that special at dribbling or passing.

for the money we  are spending we should have easily found atleast 1 star by now.

speaking of black players i was wondering who is everyones all time favourite premiership black player that came through liverpools youth team.

i know everton has had a few with people like danny cadematri and there has been a couple of late, but i can't seem to remember one coming from our academy and playing regularly in the premiership.

it is strange considering how popular traditionaly liverpool is with asian,blacks and ethnic minorities.
we have bought a lot of black players but i don't remember any coming through the academy and doing anything.

[NANNY RED]

there are really talented hungry africans who would be cheap but never seem to turn up at anfield.
we seem to always get  junk like salif diao or rigerbert song.

you look at the african finds ,people like essien and eto who eventually become big money players.
i know this will never happen because if my memory is correct valencia under rafa in spain had a specific look to them.

the same happens with south americans,everbody else get cheap players who become world stars we get strange south americans who are not that special at dribbling or passing.

for the money we  are spending we should have easily found atleast 1 star by now.

speaking of black players i was wondering who is everyones all time favourite premiership black player that came through liverpools youth team.

i know everton has had a few with people like danny cadematri and there has been a couple of late, but i can't seem to remember one coming from our academy and playing regularly in the premiership.

it is strange considering how popular traditionaly liverpool is with asian,blacks and ethnic minorities.
we have bought a lot of black players but i don't remember any coming through the academy and doing anything.

So wheres Lucas and Masherano from

Young Brazilian player of the year

Regular in the Argentina national team


Howard Gayle came through the academy but not good enough