Maybe its time for rafa to go ?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 66-1112520797 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:28 am

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.  :(

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.
Last edited by 66-1112520797 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
66-1112520797
 

Postby account deleted by request » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:59 am

I agree mate that there is a problem, but I am at a complete loss as to what it is. We look like a side with no confidence no ideas and without Gerrard and Torres more like a midtable side than a title challenging one.

I think in a way the trouble with H&G has deflected a lot of the criticism away from Rafa and the team, but somewhere along the line they have to stand up and be counted. I don't know if Rafa has "lost the dressing room" or they have just stopped believing in him and his methods but something is definately wrong somewhere.

We have been outplayed by Luton for long periods, struggled against teams we should beat with ease and seem unable to defend, attack or even control games at the moment. To say I am worried is an understatement. Something somewhere has to give, and I think it may have to be Rafa at the end of the day. 

Ferguson said after we beat them in the FA CUP that Liverpool are a team that plays well for 10 minutes and wins the game. I thought at the time it was just sour grapes after we had won, but lately that just about sums up our play.......10 minutes of pressure in which we look a good side intersperced with 80 minutes of mediocre football.

I am really starting to worry about the rest of the season now. To finish outside the top four should be unthinkable with the players we have, but unless we start playing better its a distinct possibility.

How much is down to the disputes with the owners I have no idea, but unless something is done and quickly we may look back on this as a high point, with our season trailing away into nothing.
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

Postby ruskiy playmaker » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:14 am

The season is not over yet.  We are out of the league but we still have the CL and FA cup to play for.  What happens if we win one of them, would you still want Rafa out?
[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/lkw42.gif[img]
User avatar
ruskiy playmaker
 
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:29 pm
Location: USA

Postby Toffeehater » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:16 am

Bamaga man wrote:I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.  :(

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.

Top post lad , after reading ur post , although i hate to admit , i have to agree with u , maybe its for the better that rafa goes , like u said his methods , yes i was defending him a few days back but i guess u and s@int's post have finally cracked a tough nut  , although he has won us the champions league , its the league title that we yearn fr the most . If rafa does go , I will always remember the manager who delivered us the champions league title in such a short span which NO MANAGER HAS BEEN ABLE to do.
Image
User avatar
Toffeehater
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 9181
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:26 am

Postby Toffeehater » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:20 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:The season is not over yet.  We are out of the league but we still have the CL and FA cup to play for.  What happens if we win one of them, would you still want Rafa out?

yes agreed the season is not over yet , and That's a big ask looking at the way we are playing , struggling to beat teams that we should be thrashing . Getting draws and loses after dominating teams , If we do win the champions league then i'd eat my words , i'd do it gladly , i want rafa to prove me wrong and the FA cup , i don't really care much abt that .
Image
User avatar
Toffeehater
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 9181
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:26 am

Postby Igor Zidane » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:28 am

Bamaga man wrote:I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.  :(

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.

Top post BM, although i don't agree with you. I still think we've got legs in this season yet and i'm hoping we'll still get some silverware, but to be honest with you my priority at the moment is getting these two yanks out and getting DIC in and getting some sort of stability back in the club.

I'm prepared to write these season off now and start again ,no matter what happens on the pitch , I want rafa to have one more season atleast ,with proper funding and a settled club .

I know i don't agree with you ,but i understand where your coming from and i know 'it's just not another sack rafa post . It's a carefully considered arguement with alot of thought ,i just don't agree with you mate .
UP THE PURPS !!!
Image
https://www.colfc.co.uk/
Igor Zidane
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7796
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby ruskiy playmaker » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:36 am

I agree with you Igor Zidane that Rafa deserves one season without all the obstructions.  It's impossible to judge him this season because so many things went wrong.  Next season though, will be make or break for him.
[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/lkw42.gif[img]
User avatar
ruskiy playmaker
 
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:29 pm
Location: USA

Postby Owzat » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:37 am

It's got to the stage where conceding to Havant & Waterlooville wasn't so much a shock, as rather likely in the joke that has become our season. Rafa may pull a rabbit out of the hat and win the FA Cup or Champions League, but to me there' nothing pointing towards a league title. To win the league these days you're looking at 90 points which is 2.37 points per game, Rafa is averaging 1.82 and even in peak spells it's only a matter of time before something goes wrong.

I split Rafa's time in charge into spells of 15 league games, this was before the Aston Villa game which was game 136 and therefore not divisible by 15

Games 001-015 : P15 W7 D3 L5 F24 A17 PTS 24 (PPG 1.60)
Games 016-030 : P15 W7 D2 L6 F19 A14 PTS 23 (PPG 1.53)
Games 031-045 : P15 W5 D6 L4 F14 A16 PTS 21 (PPG 1.40)
Games 046-060 : P15 W11 D2 L2 F25 A7 PTS 35 (PPG 2.33)
Games 061-075 : P15 W11 D1 L3 F24 A11 PTS 34 (PPG 2.27)
Games 076-090 : P15 W7 D3 L5 F18 A16 PTS 24 (PPG 1.60)
Games 091-105 : P15 W10 D2 L3 F29 A5 PTS 32 (PPG 2.13)
Games 105-120 : P15 W7 D6 L2 F24 A9 PTS 27 (PPG 1.80)
Games 121-135 : P15 W7 D6 L2 F24 A12 PTS 27 (PPG 1.80)

Apart from 2005/6 we've not looked anything like hitting title form. And there's always draws and defeats looming, only in three spells have we won more than half the games. It's good enough to be specialist Champions League qualifiers and have a fist at winning that, but that isn't what we want. Houllier fell away, I compared 2002/3 with 2007/8 and it was quite interesting :-

2002/3 - Games 1-12 : P12 W9 D3 L0 PTS 30
2007/8 - Games 1-12 : P12 W6 D6 L0 PTS 24

Thereafter Houllier's side  embarked on four draws and six defeats in the next ten games, this season Rafa hasn't matched that but is still only six points better off having a 4-4-2 record since

2002/3 P22 W9 D7 L6 PTS 34
2007/8 P22 W10 D10 L2 PTS 40

Liverpool did have a solid defence, it has now kept a mere FOUR clean sheets in the last fifteen games. But the worst thing that makes me think maybe it is time for Rafa to go is his record against the big three, not even a solitary point away from home in the league and just one point at home in three games this season.

Rafa vs mancs, chelski and goners

Overall P34 W9 D6 L19 F28 A46
Home P18 W7 D4 L7 F19 A21
Away P13 W0 D2 L11 F3 A20
Neutral P3 W2 D0 L1 F6 A5

The two away draws were in the Champions League against chelski, the wins in the FA Cup 2005/6 over Chelsea and the Community Shield in 2006/7. Sadly we've failed to score in 16 of those 34 games, to lose is bad enough but to not even score half the time is worse.

And the quality of some of the players is questionable, just one striker worth keeping. Add up the goals of Kuyt, Crouch and Voronin and it is only one more than Torres has scored all by himself. It would be level but for Crouch helping himself to an offside tap-in late on against non-league Havant.

I would like to think key players are rested and we'll see a better Liverpool effort on Wednesday. Even if we win the next couple of games it's a run of Chelsea, Bolton, Man Utd and Arsenal away in the league and we picked up exactly nil pwa in those games last season. On paper Liverpool might be better than the wannabes who are scrapping for fourth place, but it's points that count and if half the draws so far had been wins we'd be clear in fourth. Draws against Wigan, Brum, pompey, Blackburn, boro, villa, spudz and other teams you might expect to win against - or at least have a decent chance of beating. The mancs would have won most of those games, maybe not convincingly but then some of our draws were not exactly convincing
Never buy from PC World, product quality is poor and their 'customer service' is even poorer
User avatar
Owzat
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7487
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:55 am
Location: England

Postby Toffeehater » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:41 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.  :(

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.

Top post BM, although i don't agree with you. I still think we've got legs in this season yet and i'm hoping we'll still get some silverware, but to be honest with you my priority at the moment is getting these two yanks out and getting DIC in and getting some sort of stability back in the club.

I'm prepared to write these season off now and start again ,no matter what happens on the pitch , I want rafa to have one more season atleast ,with proper funding and a settled club .

I know i don't agree with you ,but i understand where your coming from and i know 'it's just not another sack rafa post . It's a carefully considered arguement with alot of thought ,i just don't agree with you mate .

Not having a go at u mate or anything , i think rafa has had his money and has made some bad buys , so i don't think it's fair to say that he has not had proper money , i think we are still clearly 3 players away from winning the league , so maybe just maybe rafa should have one more season IF he is given the money and does not perform then it's time for him to go
Image
User avatar
Toffeehater
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 9181
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:26 am

Postby redtrader74 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:23 am

Things are falling apart, i'm at a loss as to what can be done right now to sort it out.

Rafa leaving? I don't want him to go, but who knows maybe that would help, BUT which top manager would want to come? Financially we have fallen further behind, who will that attract? Mourinho? (IMO the ONLY person who could possibly give us immediate improvement in the League) Not a chance. We are not an attractive proposition, I very much doubt there is a top manager out there who would want to come. I cannot see G&H giving a new man say £50-60m for new players, they don't seem to have it, especially with cost of a new stadium.
User avatar
redtrader74
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: London

Postby Igor Zidane » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:31 am

Toffeehater wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.  :(

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.

Top post BM, although i don't agree with you. I still think we've got legs in this season yet and i'm hoping we'll still get some silverware, but to be honest with you my priority at the moment is getting these two yanks out and getting DIC in and getting some sort of stability back in the club.

I'm prepared to write these season off now and start again ,no matter what happens on the pitch , I want rafa to have one more season atleast ,with proper funding and a settled club .

I know i don't agree with you ,but i understand where your coming from and i know 'it's just not another sack rafa post . It's a carefully considered arguement with alot of thought ,i just don't agree with you mate .

Not having a go at u mate or anything , i think rafa has had his money and has made some bad buys , so i don't think it's fair to say that he has not had proper money , i think we are still clearly 3 players away from winning the league , so maybe just maybe rafa should have one more season IF he is given the money and does not perform then it's time for him to go

What proper money has he had mate? Where can you say he's been backed to compete for signings that the likes of man u and chelsea have made , one swollow does not make a summer mate.
UP THE PURPS !!!
Image
https://www.colfc.co.uk/
Igor Zidane
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7796
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby Toffeehater » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:37 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.  :(

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.

Top post BM, although i don't agree with you. I still think we've got legs in this season yet and i'm hoping we'll still get some silverware, but to be honest with you my priority at the moment is getting these two yanks out and getting DIC in and getting some sort of stability back in the club.

I'm prepared to write these season off now and start again ,no matter what happens on the pitch , I want rafa to have one more season atleast ,with proper funding and a settled club .

I know i don't agree with you ,but i understand where your coming from and i know 'it's just not another sack rafa post . It's a carefully considered arguement with alot of thought ,i just don't agree with you mate .

Not having a go at u mate or anything , i think rafa has had his money and has made some bad buys , so i don't think it's fair to say that he has not had proper money , i think we are still clearly 3 players away from winning the league , so maybe just maybe rafa should have one more season IF he is given the money and does not perform then it's time for him to go

What proper money has he had mate? Where can you say he's been backed to compete for signings that the likes of man u and chelsea have made , one swollow does not make a summer mate.

A few bad buys . crouch was what 10 mill?? , dirk kuyt was another 10 mill , bellamy was 6 million , morrienties was 7 million , gonzales was 5 million , thats close to 40 mill wasted , with that money we could have added 2 top class players more , u talk abt manu and chelsea , chelsea have a blank cheque  , they have spent 300 mill in the first 2 seasons , manu have spent also abt 40 mill in the summer , now i am not having a go and saying that rafa has spent more the fergie or wenger , but i am saying, some of his bad buys could have have hurt us esp when the money could have been used to sign 2 more top class players. Arsenal have spent the least mate , so what does that say? Whoever spends the most is better?
Image
User avatar
Toffeehater
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 9181
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:26 am

Postby account deleted by request » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:37 am

one swollow does not make a summer mate.


but makes a bloody good ending to a night out :D
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

Postby OneHotRed » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:42 am

I think i'm still on the fence now, but I'm slowly tipping towards BM's way of thinking, I'm not sure if this is because i judt dont know whats wrong (with a team like we have we SHOULD be dong better) or what, i'm just dumbfounded at the moment as to the way were playing, at the moment this does not feel like my team, the fighting spirit, the gaul, its been drained out of us, and whoever / whatever reason there is for that (or a combination) i want rid.
User avatar
OneHotRed
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:55 pm

Postby bigmick » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:54 am

The time to assess things properly is at the end of the season obviously, but concerns are entirely legitmate as of now in my view. Clearly the situation behind the scenes is having an effect, but equally clearly we can't in all honesty go behind twice at home to a non-league team and seriously pretend it is anything other than an embarassment either. "At least we won", "we got the job done" and "we're in the draw for the next round" is all very well, but I have trouble taking seriously anybody who is sufficiently delusional to present the opinion that the peformance of the team in the first half was anything other than shambolic.

I've been saying for a little while now that in my opinion come the end of the season, the time will be right to move on as far as a new manager goes. The only provisio being that if Rafa's presence p!sses off the owners then I hope he stays for a good deal longer. From a purely football point of view though, the time has come. We've tried all the various theories, God knows we've tried, but ultimately they haven't worked. It is my profound belief that they never will in this country, and that we would be better served by a different manager. If he were available at the end of the season, I'm coming round the thinking that such is my desperation for a title challenge, I'd go for Mourinho.
Last edited by bigmick on Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
"se e in una bottigla ed e bianco, e latte".
User avatar
bigmick
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 12166
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: Wimbledon, London.

Next

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 135 guests