Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate?  So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture?  It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well?  The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Nothing wrong? Have you seen the footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YQSmkB5XWg

According to the laws of the game a player may be cautioned if he:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action

among other things. It's quite understandable for Bennett to feel that a player repeatedly telling him to fuck off and question his decisions constitutes dissent or unsporting behaviour.

His sending off may be harsh but there are people on here who need to learn the laws of the game. Fair enough, complain about the inconsistency (Gerrard/Ronaldo swearing, Ronaldo diving but no bookings) but don't act like Masch did nothing wrong.

He did not swear at the referee when he was sent off. He did nothing that was out of the ordinary, and to this day, i have not seen a player sent off or yellowed for saying ' Why? what was that for ref? why?' What he did does not constitute dissent, and did not warrant a yellow card, had it, then there would be 20 yellows in each game.

Therefore he did nothing wrong, especially in terms of the way the LAWS of the game are normally dispensed.

Watch it yourself, the card was being written before he'd said two words, and a montage of him saying Fck off during a game, cut in with pictures of the ref, does not mean it was directed at the ref, there were 11 mancs to say that to.

what a blinkered and stupid view you have. If Mascha's protest was so innocent then why did Alonso try and pull him away from the ref, answer me that one genius.

Mascha is the disgrace, he let down his team mates and all us supporters by not controlling his emotions.

I just hope that all ref's start being consistent about not tolerating dissent becuase it's been going on too long, they should clamp down on the swearing as well although Sky seem to love zooming in on players at the exact moment they are swearing!

You have no clue, each and every one of your posts proves this.

Awesome reply, proves my point about you perfectly.    

[redtrader74]

I can see what people are saying, i know Mascherano probably should of known better and not give the ref the option.
But even looking at it from a neutrals perspective Bennett didnt need to send him off. It wasnt clearly a second yellow, it was one were other/most referees wouldnt of sent him off. So when its Liverpool-United, nearing the end of the season and tensions are high shouldnt the man in the middle have the common sense to know that players might get a bit worked up if they feel decisions arent going there way ?

I seriously cant believe the stick on here that Mascherano is getting off his own fans, the decision from the ref didnt need to be made, the fact that even later in the game others were speaking to him far far worse and going unpunished shows he lost the plot earlier in the game.

Bennett is known throughout the game as a card happy ref, Mascheranho has been playing in this league for two years he must know this. He shouldn't of given Bennett the option to send him off, that's why I'm giving Mascheranho stick. He knows how important this game is to fans and he totally lost his head.

Yes Bennett was far to quick with the card but it's still Mascheranho who must be blamed because he give the option to Bennett. If he stayed well clear then he wouldn't of got sent off.

Mascherano has only been playing for 1 year in the EPL. The first 6 monthes were spent either in the reserves or sitting on the bench for westham.

He totally lost his head? Nothing of the sort happened until after he was sent off, and even then all he can be heard mouthing is 'why' 'what for', and the ref is supposed to give a reason. Everyone else getting involved made it look worse, it now looks like he was about to deck Benett.

[redtrader74]

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Just a couple of points, mate.

On Bennett, Mascherano may not have had a lot of personal experience but I would hope that the word would have been out before the match, not only because Bennett's been known to be a disciplinarian but also because of all the hoopla surrounding the Cole booking midweek and the fact that Bennett was involved in that match as well.

Even if he didn't know, surely watching Bennett book Torres for dissent for hardly saying a word would have been signal enough for him to keep schtum?  Running up to question a card-happy ref whilst on a yellow is suicide, regardless of how calmly you do it or how innocuous it seems to simply ask a question.

As for this notion of simply bending over in the face of bad decisions, I don't want to see that but, at the same time, we need to be very careful.  Refs will never unbook a player so the chat must be designed to make him think twice about flashing a card toward your team in the future.  But, it fundamentally depends who is talking, how they approach it etc.  If Alonso or Stevie had decided to have a quiet word after the cards were put away but before the free kick was taken, I doubt we'd have seen a card.  As it was, it was a player that had been chirping in the official's ear all half who took it upon himself to intervene.  I appreciate what he was trying to do but he was absolutely the wrong person to be having a word given how things had gone up until that point.

The simple fact is that week in week out players tell the ref to 'fck off'. You see it in every game of EPL, that is the accepted standard. Therefore for a player to speak to the ref, without abuse should logically mean you are safe. I'm sure that with the Cole business Rafa must have said watch what you say, no swearing, (and as a Club we rarely do), i doubt anyone thought 'i better not say anything to the ref'.

Simple question can you ever remember seeing a player being sent off for simply asking a question, without any abuse or aggression? I for one cannot, therefore as he acted well within the accepted standard, there is no way Mascherano can vilified.

[Bammo]

He wasn't sent off for simply asking a question. he was sent off for persistent dissent. That means you need to take ALL of his actions into account, not just the time of the 2nd booking.

[redtrader74]

He wasn't sent off for simply asking a question. he was sent off for persistent dissent. That means you need to take ALL of his actions into account, not just the time of the 2nd booking.

So what you are saying is that he should have been sent off for questioning the referees decisions on more than one  occassion, because during the half, each time he approached the referee he didn't swear. So asking why, pointing out where the ref missed a manc foul (more than once) is dissent? Fair enough, i'm now expecting many players to be sent of this weekend.

I think you better write to refs chief, because up to this point they have failed to ever act upon it before.

[Bammo]

He wasn't sent off for simply asking a question. he was sent off for persistent dissent. That means you need to take ALL of his actions into account, not just the time of the 2nd booking.

So what you are saying is that he should have been sent off for questioning the referees decisions on more than one  occassion, because during the half, each time he approached the referee he didn't swear. So asking why, pointing out where the ref missed a manc foul (more than once) is dissent? Fair enough, i'm now expecting many players to be sent of this weekend.

I think you better write to refs chief, because up to this point they have failed to ever act upon it before.

It's quite clear he swears repeatedly during the 1st half.

So just because refs don't uphold the law it should be forgotten? Refs don't book players for diving but I bet you complained when Ronaldo dived. Should all players be allowed to act like Ashley Cole in future because he only got booked? What about when Mendes shot went over the line at OT but wasn't counted - should all goals now be disallowed? No, of course not. Plenty of people get away with robbery or rape but I doubt you'd accept that if you were a victim.

Plenty of players get away with shirt-pulling but I've not seen 1 person on here complain about Arbeloa's booking. Why? Because he committed the offence. It's only an issue with Masch because it was his 2nd yellow.

We're all angry that Masch was punished for something that others get away with but that doesn't mean he's innocent.

Here's the disctionary definition of dissent:

dis·sent  (d-snt)
intr.v. dis·sent·ed, dis·sent·ing, dis·sents
1. To differ in opinion or feeling; disagree.
2. To withhold assent or approval.
n.
1. Difference of opinion or feeling; disagreement.



By your own admission, Masch disagreed with the ref so yes, running up to the ref to tell him he's made a mistake is dissent.

And yes, like I've said repeatedly, more players should be punished for it. Same as more players should be punished for kicking, shirt-pulling, diving etc. If we let players get away with things they take advantage - which is why players kick, dive, pull shirts and hound the ref.

[LFC2007]

Bammo is Bennett.

[Bammo]

Bammo is Bennett.

Yeah that's it. 

If people actually bothered to read through all of my posts they'd see that I've said the sending off is harsh. All I've done is given a balanced perspective to show why Bennett may have chosen to send him off.

There's a few of you on here that seem to think Masch did absolutely nothing wrong. Fine, that's your opinion but he broke the laws of the game.

Of course, if an Everton player chases after the ref on sunday I expect you to defend the player and not call for a card if you think it's acceptable. Or will you be asking for a card simply because it's not one of us?

[LFC2007]

Bammo is Bennett.

Yeah that's it. 

If people actually bothered to read through all of my posts they'd see that I've said the sending off is harsh. All I've done is given a balanced perspective to show why Bennett may have chosen to send him off.

There's a few of you on here that seem to think Masch did absolutely nothing wrong. Fine, that's your opinion but he broke the laws of the game.

Of course, if an Everton player chases after the ref on sunday I expect you to defend the player and not call for a card if you think it's acceptable. Or will you be asking for a card simply because it's not one of us?

I was being sarky 

[Bammo]

Sorry, a bit wound up cos I thought I had to see my Manc mate in an hour. Thankfully I can avoid the abuse now coshe can't make it.

Nearly sprung my secret identity there

[Toffeehater]

Remember Roy Keane ??

got kicked out of the national team for a falling out with the coach? Though he was aboce everyone else at the Republic of ireland ? Yea what abt him?

His constant abuse of refs, who never took action and Paul Ince, Giggs etc.. come to think of it.

Fouled mouthed yob.

It was not a problem then u see , aftewr the cole incident this thing has blown outta porportition , i'd like to see how many players get sent off every week for this kind of things .

[Toffeehater]

I cant argue anymore with this Masher fiasco some of us believe he did no wrong and others believe he was right to go weve all got our own take on it,

Just wait till the FA wanna make it more than what it is an give him a bigger ban, Well all be screaming at the injustice when hes missing for not just next week but for a few weeks.

Criminal

If he carries on behaving like a caveman with no respect for himself or the team then I won't miss him at all. He was winging and whining to the ref all the first half, he absolutely deserved to be sent off, or subbed off if Rafa wasn't dozing! Torres was booked for showing disrespect to the ref, very clever, then brainbox Masch runs over and gets himself sent off, then doesn't obey his captain and only just obeys his manager when asked to leave the pitch, what a guy!!! and people want him to be the next captain, what a joke!!!

I am so sick and tired of the attitude on here that everyone is against us, it's pathetic. We were lucky not to have Carra sent off right at the start of the game and it's only because Rooney is an honest and strong player that we didn't, don't worry I still

Rooney is not an honest and strong player , the only reason eh stayed up is because he had the confidence to score and he needs the goals , he's on 8 for the season and if he had dropped and it was a pen , ronaldo would have taken it and not him , yes credit to him , he stayed on his feet when most would have gone down , maybe even torres in his position but he did it for his own motive

People complaining abt kuyt's finishing take one hard long good look at the amount of chances rooney had , kuyt would have buried at least 1 of those , yes people can argue that rooney creates more or gives more to the team , i think since kuyt has been moved to the right , he has given more this season , he has created goals and effectively stopped attacks down his side and has done it well , he was the only one who can walk away with his head held high yesterday as he was the only one who played the match for the love and passion for the game .
Well done lad .

So let me get this straight , mascherano can't ask the ref , what's this when he booked torres? and it was our freekick? Where was th protection there that ferguson wanted for skillfull players with flair like ronaldo, where was it for torres? The lad left the game with injuries and possibly because of that, i'm sorry the officials deserve no respect what so ever . SO basically for asking a question mascherano for that he gets sent off , well sorry then i think everyweek the premier league should have players off if its like this , countless like rooney , ronaldo , terry , rio just a fewto mention , theymouth of to the refree and get away with it why? Becasue they have a different set of rules , yes mascherano was wrong but he wanted to know why the ref was showing double standards and no consistency what so ever , if u are going to book someone for their first tackle and he knows its late and the studs were down , then he should have booked scholes for deliberately blocking babel , when babel had beaten him and he obstrcuted him . Face it , the ref is a cu.nt and he ate right outta ferguson's hand .

So Kuyt is now better than Rooney?

Ronay has power
pace
dribbling ability
strenght
determination
and most importantly: he is a winner

Kuyt

is weak
has no power
has no dribbling ability
and so on and so on

Oh yes I forgot, some say he has a good "mentality" so I guess he is class?

Face it. He is no threath to any team. He is a threath to Liverpool as we suffer with him as a striker or as a winger. It is like playing with 10 men and one girl. I have not seen a slower striker than him. Bring back Heskey, Baros, Diouf, Collymore, heck even bring back Meijer and Riedle. Theyre all miles ahead of Dirk .

Absolutley no class in your post  , rooney like i said is evidentley better then kuyt , i never said kuyt was better then him read my post again . As for determination , power , kuyt has that . I'd just said that kuyt would have at least buried those chances if he was given them , secondly he's been asked to play off the main striker all this season in that role before being used as a winger where he has done well , i dunno what matches u are watching . Last season he was playing in his natural role and got 14 goals , which is a pretty decent goal average for a player in his debut season , the difference this season is torres , rafa is using a new formation and kuyt has to be sacrificed and played in a unfailimar role whereas rooney has been playing in a strikers role all his career . Fact.

[Toffeehater]

not commented on the game yet but here goes.

even before the sending off we were never at the races to be fair, there short and not very sweet.

as for the sending off, mash should have shut up and got on with it, i am forever calling for dissent to stop and sadly it was one of out players who continued it after his booking, as for the second yellow, well harsh maybe for what he said but on the other hand what was he doing even going over when he was already booked?

now to red nose, w@nker, just look at his players over the years, keane, rooney et al, they are just mimicking you you whiskey nosed ref buying cheating kunt.


so back to reality, we had a good run and came unstuck against a better team, lets beat the bitters and then concentrate on arsenal and suffer the indignity of the scum coming within one title of us

Wow You're going soft old man 

[Lando_Griffin]

MASCHERANO DID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING, IT IS NOT A FOOTBALLING CRIME TO SPEAK TO THE REF, HE DID NOT SWEAR OR TOUCH THE REF

Nothing, mate?  So, it's a perfectly acceptable move for a player on a yellow to run 20 yards over to a ref with a rep like 'Book-em Bennett' to argue the toss after said ref has just written up a teammate for dissent on the basis of a few words and a hand gesture?  It's okay that he'll miss the derby now or that not leaving the field means he might miss the Arsenal and Blackburn matches as well?  The sending off was definitely harsh, mate, but to suggest that he did nothing wrong is going too far, IMO.

I have know idea whether Macherano knew of Bennets reputation. The fact is there is nothing wrong, nothing in the rule books, that precludes a player from asking the referee why a team mate has been booked, whether they walk over from 2 yds or 20. The referee is in charge, so if a player requires information on the game, he is well within his rights to ask any question, as long as he is polite (mascherano was) and not aggressive (again he wasn't).

Am i correct now that some supporters want our team to bend over each time we are given a bad decision? do we want our players to continue in the generally meek way we go about disputing referee calls, while our competitors continue to assert themselves and gain the advantage?

He did nothing wrong, simple. (well not until he was sent off, and even that i can understand).

Nothing wrong? Have you seen the footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YQSmkB5XWg

According to the laws of the game a player may be cautioned if he:

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action

among other things. It's quite understandable for Bennett to feel that a player repeatedly telling him to fuck off and question his decisions constitutes dissent or unsporting behaviour.

His sending off may be harsh but there are people on here who need to learn the laws of the game. Fair enough, complain about the inconsistency (Gerrard/Ronaldo swearing, Ronaldo diving but no bookings) but don't act like Masch did nothing wrong.

He did not swear at the referee when he was sent off. He did nothing that was out of the ordinary, and to this day, i have not seen a player sent off or yellowed for saying ' Why? what was that for ref? why?' What he did does not constitute dissent, and did not warrant a yellow card, had it, then there would be 20 yellows in each game.

Therefore he did nothing wrong, especially in terms of the way the LAWS of the game are normally dispensed.

Watch it yourself, the card was being written before he'd said two words, and a montage of him saying Fck off during a game, cut in with pictures of the ref, does not mean it was directed at the ref, there were 11 mancs to say that to.

what a blinkered and stupid view you have. If Mascha's protest was so innocent then why did Alonso try and pull him away from the ref, answer me that one genius.

Mascha is the disgrace, he let down his team mates and all us supporters by not controlling his emotions.

I just hope that all ref's start being consistent about not tolerating dissent becuase it's been going on too long, they should clamp down on the swearing as well although Sky seem to love zooming in on players at the exact moment they are swearing!

You're not a fan of Liverpool. That's the only explanation for your constant anti-Liverpool drivel.

Mascherano did NOT deserve to be sent off. He simply asked why Torres had been carded. Then that ropey slaphead c*nt showed him a red.

It was AFTER this that Mascher quite rightly got angry and followed the coward around the pitch.

You live in some dreamland where no-one swears, no-one gets angry, and everyone kisses the a*se of an incompetent, inconsistent referee.

Steve Bennett and his childish, petulant, cowardly reaction to having his ridiculous decisions questioned is to blame - not Mascher.

[MR C]

who cares if he got sent off,we did not lose because of that.
we lost because the same people never turned up once again.
so ask yourself who has been there long enough but is always quiet in these games.

i am disapointed but its time to get behind the players.
if its tradition to get behind benitez when he has made countless mistakes,then its time to get behind players who will be good for the team in the future.

in the past i've stated that i thought macherano was no worth 18 million pounds,i've changed my mind. he may not be the best passer of the ball but he has the passion i need to see.i can see this guy being the future captain....thats why he went over.