Liverpool FC Forum

[Bam]

I just think its one of those things mate. If you have faith in a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal .... you brush it off. If you have major doubts about a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal you see it as confirming your opinion.

Same with Rafa, if you believe he is still definately the right man for the job, you accept he has made mistakes but brush them aside, if you are having doubts, it just confirms you were right to doubt him.

Do you know what Saint i couldnt agree more on what you have just said. As you know i have faith in the manager because i believe in my heart he is doing what is best for Liverpool football club. I  said ages ago in another thread we have a fan on the inside in Rafa, i seriously believe that. It was the samei suppose when Xabi wasnt playing well my faith in his abilities  never waverd, i knew he would come good again it was just a matter of believing in him. Because them god given talents that he has, could of been our loss. An before anyone says Rafa wanted to sell him for Barry. We dont know the full story there either. But i still believe the owners were behind trying to raise as much money as they could. But it didnt work out

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Oh so now Rafa didnt want to sell Alonso, and possibly the Yanks wanted Keane out. To make a quick buck.


Nanny Rafa cant do any wrong in your eyes can  he, I meanyou seem to have an excuse for everything Rafa does wrong.

Blind faith makes me cringe sometimes it really does.

(No offence like)

[tonyeh]

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Maybe another striker was coming in and the deal fell apart. maybe Keane begged Raffa to sell him. Maybe Raffa was afraid of losing more on him had we sold him in the summer as Spurs were desperate.  Fact is it is unknown and any accusations about Raffa and Parry are just opinions. Surely there is more going on than an ego trip.

I'd say the only thing Keane "begged" Benitez to do was stop taking him off the pitch after an hour.

You keep trawling out that line, Keane wasn't taken off on the hour every time he played.

90+ mins : x5
80-89 mins : x5
70-79 mins : x6
61-69 mins : x5
60 mins : x1
54 mins : x1

Sub appearances : x5

So of his 23 starts he was taken off by or on the hour mark just TWICE, and played at least 70 mins on 16 occaisions. Please desist with your little myth, he spent 64 mins average on the pitch which includes brief spells of up to 20 mins as sub, so it's not only inaccurate but getting tiresome when you keep posting it.

I am of the firm belief Keane does not like it if he isn't on the pitch from kick-off until final whistle, and that applies everywhere he's played. I can understand why a striker would be frustrated at being taken off, but the bottom line is we criticise Rafa for making his substitutions too late and way too predictable so subbing someone after an hour is actually a positive move - except if the wrong player is taken off or it isn't a good move for whatever other reason

Don't be such a pedant for fucks sake. You know what I mean.

The fact is Keane was taken off before full time in the majority of the games he was involved in.

[NANNY RED]

I just think its one of those things mate. If you have faith in a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal .... you brush it off. If you have major doubts about a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal you see it as confirming your opinion.

Same with Rafa, if you believe he is still definately the right man for the job, you accept he has made mistakes but brush them aside, if you are having doubts, it just confirms you were right to doubt him.

Do you know what Saint i couldnt agree more on what you have just said. As you know i have faith in the manager because i believe in my heart he is doing what is best for Liverpool football club. I  said ages ago in another thread we have a fan on the inside in Rafa, i seriously believe that. It was the samei suppose when Xabi wasnt playing well my faith in his abilities  never waverd, i knew he would come good again it was just a matter of believing in him. Because them god given talents that he has, could of been our loss. An before anyone says Rafa wanted to sell him for Barry. We dont know the full story there either. But i still believe the owners were behind trying to raise as much money as they could. But it didnt work out

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Oh so now Rafa didnt want to sell Alonso, and possibly the Yanks wanted Keane out. To make a quick buck.


Nanny Rafa cant do any wrong in your eyes can  he, I meanyou seem to have an excuse for everything Rafa does wrong.

Blind faith makes me cringe sometimes it really does.

Bam i said we dont know the full story same with the Keane situation, An at the mo the Agger situation why hasnt he been given a new contract yet, We just dont know. I remember the Gerrard situation i thought id never forgive him for wanting to leave us an go to them others but when i read his book Bam i got a different insight into it, Parry being the main factor, Thats all im trying to say. We just dont know, we all believe what we want to believe on a personal level,

Im not excusing him at all, Its just that im not round the dinner table with Rafa listening to whats going on, But maybe your right i do have blind faith in him, But thats just how i feel

[Bam]

I just think its one of those things mate. If you have faith in a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal .... you brush it off. If you have major doubts about a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal you see it as confirming your opinion.

Same with Rafa, if you believe he is still definately the right man for the job, you accept he has made mistakes but brush them aside, if you are having doubts, it just confirms you were right to doubt him.

Do you know what Saint i couldnt agree more on what you have just said. As you know i have faith in the manager because i believe in my heart he is doing what is best for Liverpool football club. I  said ages ago in another thread we have a fan on the inside in Rafa, i seriously believe that. It was the samei suppose when Xabi wasnt playing well my faith in his abilities  never waverd, i knew he would come good again it was just a matter of believing in him. Because them god given talents that he has, could of been our loss. An before anyone says Rafa wanted to sell him for Barry. We dont know the full story there either. But i still believe the owners were behind trying to raise as much money as they could. But it didnt work out

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Oh so now Rafa didnt want to sell Alonso, and possibly the Yanks wanted Keane out. To make a quick buck.


Nanny Rafa cant do any wrong in your eyes can  he, I meanyou seem to have an excuse for everything Rafa does wrong.

Blind faith makes me cringe sometimes it really does.

Bam i said we dont know the full story same with the Keane situation, An at the mo the Agger situation why hasnt he been given a new contract yet, We just dont know. I remember the Gerrard situation i thought id never forgive him for wanting to leave us an go to them others but when i read his book Bam i got a different insight into it, Parry being the main factor, Thats all im trying to say. We just dont know, we all believe what we want to believe on a personal level,

Im not excusing him at all, Its just that im not round the dinner table with Rafa listening to whats going on, But maybe your right i do have blind faith in him, But thats just how i feel

Its your opinion Nan and of course your entitled to it.

If I cause offence by my post I apologise I didnt mean too. But sometimes I get annoyed with the possibility of people making endless excuses for the man. I know you didnt, and I wish I had more faith in him. Although I'd be content in him getting a two year contract (Rafa that is) I havent written him off yet. But I dont blindly believe in him ... Weird hey.

When people say he is a Liverpool supporter and all that tosh, and firmly believe he does things for the best of the clubs  interest. Its hard to believe with the saga's such as the Keane one and even the Crouch one.

[NANNY RED]

You could never be offencive to me treacle Anyway im off to Shorditch to make a property killing

[heimdall]

I just think its one of those things mate. If you have faith in a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal .... you brush it off. If you have major doubts about a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal you see it as confirming your opinion.

Same with Rafa, if you believe he is still definately the right man for the job, you accept he has made mistakes but brush them aside, if you are having doubts, it just confirms you were right to doubt him.

Do you know what Saint i couldnt agree more on what you have just said. As you know i have faith in the manager because i believe in my heart he is doing what is best for Liverpool football club. I  said ages ago in another thread we have a fan on the inside in Rafa, i seriously believe that. It was the samei suppose when Xabi wasnt playing well my faith in his abilities  never waverd, i knew he would come good again it was just a matter of believing in him. Because them god given talents that he has, could of been our loss. An before anyone says Rafa wanted to sell him for Barry. We dont know the full story there either. But i still believe the owners were behind trying to raise as much money as they could. But it didnt work out

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Oh so now Rafa didnt want to sell Alonso, and possibly the Yanks wanted Keane out. To make a quick buck.


Nanny Rafa cant do any wrong in your eyes can  he, I meanyou seem to have an excuse for everything Rafa does wrong.

Blind faith makes me cringe sometimes it really does.

Bam i said we dont know the full story same with the Keane situation, An at the mo the Agger situation why hasnt he been given a new contract yet, We just dont know. I remember the Gerrard situation i thought id never forgive him for wanting to leave us an go to them others but when i read his book Bam i got a different insight into it, Parry being the main factor, Thats all im trying to say. We just dont know, we all believe what we want to believe on a personal level,

Im not excusing him at all, Its just that im not round the dinner table with Rafa listening to whats going on, But maybe your right i do have blind faith in him, But thats just how i feel

Nanny, the way I see it, and this is one of the things that annoys me the most with Rafa, is that whenever he wants some glory or fans to feel sorry for him he has no problem leaking news out to the media via one of his cronies who now seems to include Xabi Alonso for some bizare reason. For that reason I am inclined to think that he did screw up the Keane sale, if he had wanted to buy a replacement but got screwed over by the numpties then he would have made it known, also if he was being pressured into selling Xabi against his will he would have made that known.
I find it touching but a bit naive that some of you think Rafa has anybody but himself as top priority when most evidence points to him using every trick in the book to gain an advantage for himself by dragging the good name of the club through the mud which is the english tabloid press at every given opportunity. In many ways I actually think Houllier was more of a Liverpool manager in the traditional role than Rafa will ever be.
Why for instance do you guys think that he focusses more on the Champions League rather than the premiership, (this season perhaps excepted) when he knows that the prem is more important to us fans. The reason is that personally he doesn't really give two sh1ts about the prem, it is far more important for him to make himself look good for potential Italian and Spanish clubs.

Maybe I'm being harsh but I just don't get this view that Rafa is Mr.Liverpool.

[Effes]

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Yep, no argument on that one from me. That's why I've been saying for a bit that people should be careful about putting too definate a line in the sand for whether or not they want a change come the end of the season.

If you believe in the manager, 9 points behind the Mancs is no different really to 6 points back. If you believe in Rafa you'll be wanting him to get a few more goes at it, and my guess is you're going to get your wish as well. I hope the belief is going to be justified in the end.

Couldn't read that without commenting 

It all depends what type of person you are, some people are black or white people. Some aren't.

Mick, a line in the sand is never definite, hence it being in the sand mate.

Rafa has me perplexed to be honest, our team can mix it with Europe's finest. But then can't beat Stoke, Hull, Fulham, or Wigan.
I get frustrated big time to be honest.

[Bam]

You could never be offencive to me treacle Anyway im off to Shorditch to make a property killing

Cut me in on ya deal then Love. 

[Lando_Griffin]

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Maybe another striker was coming in and the deal fell apart. maybe Keane begged Raffa to sell him. Maybe Raffa was afraid of losing more on him had we sold him in the summer as Spurs were desperate.  Fact is it is unknown and any accusations about Raffa and Parry are just opinions. Surely there is more going on than an ego trip.

I'd say the only thing Keane "begged" Benitez to do was stop taking him off the pitch after an hour.

You keep trawling out that line, Keane wasn't taken off on the hour every time he played.

90+ mins : x5
80-89 mins : x5
70-79 mins : x6
61-69 mins : x5
60 mins : x1
54 mins : x1

Sub appearances : x5

So of his 23 starts he was taken off by or on the hour mark just TWICE, and played at least 70 mins on 16 occaisions. Please desist with your little myth, he spent 64 mins average on the pitch which includes brief spells of up to 20 mins as sub, so it's not only inaccurate but getting tiresome when you keep posting it.

I am of the firm belief Keane does not like it if he isn't on the pitch from kick-off until final whistle, and that applies everywhere he's played. I can understand why a striker would be frustrated at being taken off, but the bottom line is we criticise Rafa for making his substitutions too late and way too predictable so subbing someone after an hour is actually a positive move - except if the wrong player is taken off or it isn't a good move for whatever other reason

Don't be such a pedant for fucks sake. You know what I mean.

The fact is Keane was taken off before full time in the majority of the games he was involved in.

Because he was sh*t in the majority of games he was involved in...

[bigmick]

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Yep, no argument on that one from me. That's why I've been saying for a bit that people should be careful about putting too definate a line in the sand for whether or not they want a change come the end of the season.

If you believe in the manager, 9 points behind the Mancs is no different really to 6 points back. If you believe in Rafa you'll be wanting him to get a few more goes at it, and my guess is you're going to get your wish as well. I hope the belief is going to be justified in the end.

Couldn't read that without commenting 

It all depends what type of person you are, some people are black or white people. Some aren't.

Mick, a line in the sand is never definite, hence it being in the sand mate.

Rafa has me perplexed to be honest, our team can mix it with Europe's finest. But then can't beat Stoke, Hull, Fulham, or Wigan.
I get frustrated big time to be honest.

Hey Eff it was in no way shape or form intended as a dig to you or anyone else, sorry if it came over that way.

No, what I mean is that I think people who believe in the manager should simply go with their guts and stick with it if they think they're right. The same thing applies to those who are against it, you feel what you feel and my guess is that once you've made your mind up, it would take something pretty seismic to change it.

It's often said that if we win it, then all bets are off, he has proven all the doubters wrong. I've said it myself many times, and it's true. Hand on heart though, would I be able to convince myself that we hadn't won it "despite" the manager, or that we hadn't just got lucky, I'm not sure. I hope I would, but i couldn't categorially say for definate. I can say for definate it would take AT LEAST a Premiership win to even come close to convincing me, such is my anti-ness.

Once again hand on heart honest if we finished three points back it'd be a great effort, and although I might not come on the forum and say it, my guess is that secretly I'd never forgive the manager for losing it for us.

That's because I'm set now, I'm not sill deciding, I've made my mind up. By the same token, some people who are 100% in tune with what Rafa is trying to do, "pro's" to my "anti" would probably be able to rationalise it even if we finished 14 points off the top and third. Just as I'd secretly blame the boss for losing it for us if we were close, they'd secretly or perhaps not even secretly have a whole list of reasons which were beyond the managers control, excuses if you like ...

But then there are others, most people definately who are still making their minds up. My point is that people should go with their heart, and whether we finish 3 points back or 9 points back shouldn't influence peoples decision overly, simply because there's more to it than that.


I should also say because somebody else certainly will, that there is also the possibility that we don't finish any points back, and that we win it.

[Effes]

It's OK Mick, didn't think it was a dig, just thought I'd comment with my view.

I'd be convinced he was doing right if we won it, no doubts from me there. It's not looking good though is it?

[bigmick]

It's not looking good though is it?

Well funnily enough I'm probably less pessimistic than most, simply because I'd already kind of factored in the Mancs hoovering up some easy points which they have over the last few weeks. I really didn't expect Fulham to get a result there, and neither do I expect Blackburn will either.

All that said, it doesn't overly change our situation when you think about it. We know for a fact that if we are to have any chance, we are probably going to have to win 11 of our remaining 13 games, at least. We are certainly going to have to win at Old Trafford. Neither of those feats will be easy, but neither are they made any harder by the Mancs rolling over average teams with great efficiency.

Basically we're past squeeky bum time now, we should be into kind of a euphoric state where we don't have to worry about anything. If we don't beat Man City for instance, we are gone. So if we go a goal down, there's no twist or stick it's quite simply all out attack. We have to go for the throat from minute one.

It obviously won't be easy, but funnily enough I think in sport clarity of thought can be a great advantage. Like I said earlier, we are out on our feet, but we have a punchers chance. We just have to make sure we are close enough to give ourselves the chance to land a haymaker which might, just might, wobble them a bit.

[Effes]

It's not looking good though is it?

Well funnily enough I'm probably less pessimistic than most, simply because I'd already kind of factored in the Mancs hoovering up some easy points which they have over the last few weeks. I really didn't expect Fulham to get a result there, and neither do I expect Blackburn will either.

Mick, I think most "realists" were less affected by last night's result; as this position was deemed inevitable I guess. Things have gone quiet on here.

Comparing the home records of us and the Mancs will tell us something.

[heimdall]

It's not looking good though is it?

Well funnily enough I'm probably less pessimistic than most, simply because I'd already kind of factored in the Mancs hoovering up some easy points which they have over the last few weeks. I really didn't expect Fulham to get a result there, and neither do I expect Blackburn will either.

Mick, I think most "realists" were less affected by last night's result; as this position was deemed inevitable I guess. Things have gone quiet on here.

Comparing the home records of us and the Mancs will tell us something.

I agree, I wasn't expecting Fulham to do us a favour but as good as Man Utd were yesterday there is still something not quite right with that team, obviously not defensively though  , I still think they will drop points but then I suspect we will as well. We have a chance to win the league but we have to really go for it every single game and have Torres and Gerrard available and playing at their very best.

[Igor Zidane]

It's not looking good though is it?

Well funnily enough I'm probably less pessimistic than most, simply because I'd already kind of factored in the Mancs hoovering up some easy points which they have over the last few weeks. I really didn't expect Fulham to get a result there, and neither do I expect Blackburn will either.

All that said, it doesn't overly change our situation when you think about it. We know for a fact that if we are to have any chance, we are probably going to have to win 11 of our remaining 13 games, at least. We are certainly going to have to win at Old Trafford. Neither of those feats will be easy, but neither are they made any harder by the Mancs rolling over average teams with great efficiency.

Basically we're past squeeky bum time now, we should be into kind of a euphoric state where we don't have to worry about anything. If we don't beat Man City for instance, we are gone. So if we go a goal down, there's no twist or stick it's quite simply all out attack. We have to go for the throat from minute one.

It obviously won't be easy, but funnily enough I think in sport clarity of thought can be a great advantage. Like I said earlier, we are out on our feet, but we have a punchers chance. We just have to make sure we are close enough to give ourselves the chance to land a haymaker which might, just might, wobble them a bit.

I like your style , mick . I agree 100% with that mate . We are still in it and we know what we have to do , no if's or butts. No second chances ,just get on with winning games and see what happens.