Liverpool FC Forum

[Igor Zidane]

Id say that was Shanks ,Igor

Spot on nan ,, and it's from part of his biography . .


I ripped it from rawk , and what i'm trying to get at are the similarities with Benitez .

I'm not comparing there success as there is no comparison . Shankly is second to none , followed closely by Paisley .

No i'm comparing there attitudes and the personalities which i find pretty similar .


Here's a link to a new sight which is really interesting .

http://www.shankly.com/Webs/billshankly/default.aspx

[account deleted by request]

I don't want to have a go at you for the Shanks and Rafa comparison mate, but tbh I don't think you can compare the two at all. Shanks was a great man manager who did everything because he thought that was what was best for the club. It may be just the way I see things mate, but I think maybe Rafa does a lot of things because they are best for Rafa.

Certainly the whole contract farce, or the Keane fiasco were not done for the benefit of the club imo. 

Just another view Igor not saying I am right or wrong mate.

[bigmick]

I wish I could agree on the Shankly comparisons Igor but not surprisingly I suppose, I can't see it no. Houllier maybe, Shankly no.

[Igor Zidane]

I don't want to have a go at you for the Shanks and Rafa comparison mate, but tbh I don't think you can compare the two at all. Shanks was a great man manager who did everything because he thought that was what was best for the club. It may be just the way I see things mate, but I think maybe Rafa does a lot of things because they are best for Rafa.

Certainly the whole contract farce, or the Keane fiasco were not done for the benefit of the club imo. 

Just another view Igor not saying I am right or wrong mate.

I am by no means comparing there records or the impact they've had on our club ,like i said there is no comparison . I'm only commenting on there personalities and there attitudes towards our club . It's only a personal opinion ,but i see certain smilarities.
Imo the fans and club come first for Benitez so i have to disagree with you there saint .

Anyway i'm ruining this thread by namimg names so i apologise for that .

[Igor Zidane]

Saint were you around when we signed Tony Hately's dad . Didn't he score a shed load of goals in one season and sold because he didn't fit into our style . If i'm wrong i'm sorry , it's just what i thought . Anyway what i'm getting at is that the keane thing is by no means a first .Wasn't shankly constantly battleing the board to get his way (in private for the most part admittedly ).

[account deleted by request]

Saint were you around when we signed Tony Hately's dad . Didn't he score a shed load of goals in one season and sold because he didn't fit into our style . If i'm wrong i'm sorry , it's just what i thought . Anyway what i'm getting at is that the keane thing is by no means a first .Wasn't shankly constantly battleing the board to get his way (in private for the most part admittedly ).

It was Mark Hateleys dad ....... Tony  Yes, but he played a full season for us first mate. Scored 27 or 28 goals, but ruined our passing game, and we didn't sell him until AFTER we had signed Evans as a replacement.

The problem on my part is not that we sold Keane (I never wanted him in the first place tbh), the sale of Keane without bringing in an adequate replacement is a disgrace. It was more about winning the ongoing power struggle with Parry than about enhancing our chances of winning the league imo.

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

You also have to remember that even Shanks had to work WITH the board. The day Shanks resigned we signed Ray Kennedy....... Shanks had to ask to find out who we had signed! I am sure Kennedy was on a list of players that Shanks had made........ but he didn't know we had signed him.

[Igor Zidane]

Saint were you around when we signed Tony Hately's dad . Didn't he score a shed load of goals in one season and sold because he didn't fit into our style . If i'm wrong i'm sorry , it's just what i thought . Anyway what i'm getting at is that the keane thing is by no means a first .Wasn't shankly constantly battleing the board to get his way (in private for the most part admittedly ).

It was Mark Hateleys dad ....... Tony  Yes, but he played a full season for us first mate. Scored 27 or 28 goals, but ruined our passing game, and we didn't sell him until AFTER we had signed Evans as a replacement.

The problem on my part is not that we sold Keane (I never wanted him in the first place tbh), the sale of Keane without bringing in an adequate replacement is a disgrace. It was more about winning the ongoing power struggle with Parry than about enhancing our chances of winning the league imo.

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Yeh mark hateley ,feck me sorry about that . Were gonna have to agree to disagree regarding rafa's motives mate . I just can't see it as clearly as you . There's all kinds of rumours regarding keans sale and if replacements were sort . We 'll never know i suppose cos were not privvy to that stuff . I'm sure it will all come out in the wash anyway.

[account deleted by request]

I just think its one of those things mate. If you have faith in a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal .... you brush it off. If you have major doubts about a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal you see it as confirming your opinion.

Same with Rafa, if you believe he is still definately the right man for the job, you accept he has made mistakes but brush them aside, if you are having doubts, it just confirms you were right to doubt him.

[bigmick]

The problem on my part is not that we sold Keane (I never wanted him in the first place tbh), the sale of Keane without bringing in an adequate replacement is a disgrace. It was more about winning the ongoing power struggle with Parry than about enhancing our chances of winning the league imo.

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

100% agree with every single word of that. There is not an ounce of football reason behind the sale. Even if we had planned to leave Keane on the bench in every single match and only bring him on if Torres wasn't available, he was our second best striker so that's what we should have done.

It was this incident which caused me to finally chuck the towel in as far as the manager's concerned.


Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. I did properly answer the topic starter earlier but nobody could be ersed to comment on it  In a minute, someone will say "FFS why does every fecking thread have to be about Rafa and Keane  " which is fair enough, but it's the only way you get any debate around here .

[kazza]

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Maybe another striker was coming in and the deal fell apart. maybe Keane begged Raffa to sell him. Maybe Raffa was afraid of losing more on him had we sold him in the summer as Spurs were desperate.  Fact is it is unknown and any accusations about Raffa and Parry are just opinions. Surely there is more going on than an ego trip.

[tonyeh]

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Maybe another striker was coming in and the deal fell apart. maybe Keane begged Raffa to sell him. Maybe Raffa was afraid of losing more on him had we sold him in the summer as Spurs were desperate.  Fact is it is unknown and any accusations about Raffa and Parry are just opinions. Surely there is more going on than an ego trip.

I'd say the only thing Keane "begged" Benitez to do was stop taking him off the pitch after an hour.

[kazza]

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Maybe another striker was coming in and the deal fell apart. maybe Keane begged Raffa to sell him. Maybe Raffa was afraid of losing more on him had we sold him in the summer as Spurs were desperate.  Fact is it is unknown and any accusations about Raffa and Parry are just opinions. Surely there is more going on than an ego trip.

I'd say the only thing Keane "begged" Benitez to do was stop taking him off the pitch after an hour.

Maybe?

[Owzat]

Players need to know that they are in or out of the squad on MERIT, not because it suits Rafa in his fight with Parry.

Maybe another striker was coming in and the deal fell apart. maybe Keane begged Raffa to sell him. Maybe Raffa was afraid of losing more on him had we sold him in the summer as Spurs were desperate.  Fact is it is unknown and any accusations about Raffa and Parry are just opinions. Surely there is more going on than an ego trip.

I'd say the only thing Keane "begged" Benitez to do was stop taking him off the pitch after an hour.

You keep trawling out that line, Keane wasn't taken off on the hour every time he played.

90+ mins : x5
80-89 mins : x5
70-79 mins : x6
61-69 mins : x5
60 mins : x1
54 mins : x1

Sub appearances : x5

So of his 23 starts he was taken off by or on the hour mark just TWICE, and played at least 70 mins on 16 occaisions. Please desist with your little myth, he spent 64 mins average on the pitch which includes brief spells of up to 20 mins as sub, so it's not only inaccurate but getting tiresome when you keep posting it.

I am of the firm belief Keane does not like it if he isn't on the pitch from kick-off until final whistle, and that applies everywhere he's played. I can understand why a striker would be frustrated at being taken off, but the bottom line is we criticise Rafa for making his substitutions too late and way too predictable so subbing someone after an hour is actually a positive move - except if the wrong player is taken off or it isn't a good move for whatever other reason

[NANNY RED]

I just think its one of those things mate. If you have faith in a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal .... you brush it off. If you have major doubts about a player and he makes a bad pass or scores an own goal you see it as confirming your opinion.

Same with Rafa, if you believe he is still definately the right man for the job, you accept he has made mistakes but brush them aside, if you are having doubts, it just confirms you were right to doubt him.

Do you know what Saint i couldnt agree more on what you have just said. As you know i have faith in the manager because i believe in my heart he is doing what is best for Liverpool football club. I  said ages ago in another thread we have a fan on the inside in Rafa, i seriously believe that. It was the samei suppose when Xabi wasnt playing well my faith in his abilities  never waverd, i knew he would come good again it was just a matter of believing in him. Because them god given talents that he has, could of been our loss. An before anyone says Rafa wanted to sell him for Barry. We dont know the full story there either. But i still believe the owners were behind trying to raise as much money as they could. But it didnt work out

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

[bigmick]

Its correct though when you say you either believe in our manager or you dont. an thats all it boils down to.

Yep, no argument on that one from me. That's why I've been saying for a bit that people should be careful about putting too definate a line in the sand for whether or not they want a change come the end of the season.

If you believe in the manager, 9 points behind the Mancs is no different really to 6 points back. If you believe in Rafa you'll be wanting him to get a few more goes at it, and my guess is you're going to get your wish as well. I hope the belief is going to be justified in the end.