Liverpool FC Forum

[DrPepe]

i wish we were as sh ite as the mancs

Since we won the mighty FA cup in 06 they've only managed to win 3 titles and a european cup, plus a few domestics...

definitely on the decline 

[Sir Roger]

i wish we were as sh ite as the mancs

Since we won the mighty FA cup in 06 they've only managed to win 3 titles and a european cup, plus a few domestics...

definitely on the decline 

I personally have never and would never say they were shi'te. That would be silly and childish. They are obviously a good team with some good players. I am making the point that they are over-rated and hyped to fuc.k by the media.
If I am going to be brutally honest I would have to say that we should have won the 2007 CL against milan and won the league this year. In saying that I have to blame Rafa for both those failures. But thats not the point I want to make.
The reason they have won so much in the last three years is as much to do with our inability as much as their ability. I will begrudgingly give them credit for winning the title last season. I honestly cant give them credit for the CL because of cryin ars.e Terrys catastrophic penalty.
I absolutely and positively believe that the current manc team and manager were found out against barca and although I'm not saying they will crash and burn, I do believe they are on the decline and we are in the ascent.
I also believe deep down that beetroot nose knows it too...

[Owzat]

I wouldn't say the mancs were sh1 te, just very capable of beating the rubbish sides and not so good against the top sides. In fact not once have they beaten the Champions in the past three seasons

Man Utd Premiership (06/07-08/09)

vs Bottom half sides

Overall : P60 W51 D6 L3 F133 A29 PTS 159 (Won 85.00%)
06/07 : P20 W16 D2 L2 F45 A14 PTS 50 (Won 80.00%)
07/08 : P20 W16 D3 L1 F46 A7 PTS 51 (Won 80.00%)
08/09 : P20 W19 D1 L0 F42 A8 PTS 58 (Won 95.00%)

vs sides 5th to 10th

Overall : P36 W25 D6 L5 F85 A26 PTS 81 (Won 69.44%)
06/07 : P12 W10 D1 L1 F33 A9 PTS 31 (Won 83.33%)
07/08 : P12 W7 D2 L3 F23 A10 PTS 23 (Won 58.33%)
08/09 : P12 W8 D3 L1 F19 A7 PTS 27 (Won 66.67%)

vs Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal

Total : P18 W7 D5 L6 F23 A18 PTS 26 (Won 38.89%)
08/09 : P6 W1 D2 L3 F7 A9 PTS 5 (Won 16.67%)
07/08 : P6 W4 D1 L1 F11 A5 PTS 13 (Won 66.67%)
06/07 : P6 W2 D2 L2 F5 A4 PTS 8 (Won 33.33%)

So it's not too difficult to see why they haven't dominated Europe and why they only won the Champions League last season on penalties.

They've dropped only 21 points in three seasons against the sides that finished in the bottom half of the table, a mere seven points a season out of a possible 60. Compare that to us and we've picked up only 140 points against bottom half sides, that's six points per season to their advantage straight away (out of the average of eight points per season they've finished above us). Compare our record over the past three seasons against the 'big four' and we've picked up 24 points, only two less than the mancs.

To say they are completely sh1 te would be inaccurate, they have topped the pile three times in a row and, if they were to win it next season, would set an unprecedented top flight record of four in a row. But I think that record against bottom half sides says a lot about how they do it, beating the ordinary fare in the Premiership relentlessly. I wouldn't be surprised if 19 wins out of 20 against said opposition was a record

[DrPepe]

I wouldn't say the mancs were sh1 te, just very capable of beating the rubbish sides and not so good against the top sides. In fact not once have they beaten the Champions in the past three seasons

Man Utd Premiership (06/07-08/09)

vs Bottom half sides

Overall : P60 W51 D6 L3 F133 A29 PTS 159 (Won 85.00%)
06/07 : P20 W16 D2 L2 F45 A14 PTS 50 (Won 80.00%)
07/08 : P20 W16 D3 L1 F46 A7 PTS 51 (Won 80.00%)
08/09 : P20 W19 D1 L0 F42 A8 PTS 58 (Won 95.00%)

vs sides 5th to 10th

Overall : P36 W25 D6 L5 F85 A26 PTS 81 (Won 69.44%)
06/07 : P12 W10 D1 L1 F33 A9 PTS 31 (Won 83.33%)
07/08 : P12 W7 D2 L3 F23 A10 PTS 23 (Won 58.33%)
08/09 : P12 W8 D3 L1 F19 A7 PTS 27 (Won 66.67%)

vs Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal

Total : P18 W7 D5 L6 F23 A18 PTS 26 (Won 38.89%)
08/09 : P6 W1 D2 L3 F7 A9 PTS 5 (Won 16.67%)
07/08 : P6 W4 D1 L1 F11 A5 PTS 13 (Won 66.67%)
06/07 : P6 W2 D2 L2 F5 A4 PTS 8 (Won 33.33%)

So it's not too difficult to see why they haven't dominated Europe and why they only won the Champions League last season on penalties.

They've dropped only 21 points in three seasons against the sides that finished in the bottom half of the table, a mere seven points a season out of a possible 60. Compare that to us and we've picked up only 140 points against bottom half sides, that's six points per season to their advantage straight away (out of the average of eight points per season they've finished above us). Compare our record over the past three seasons against the 'big four' and we've picked up 24 points, only two less than the mancs.

To say they are completely sh1 te would be inaccurate, they have topped the pile three times in a row and, if they were to win it next season, would set an unprecedented top flight record of four in a row. But I think that record against bottom half sides says a lot about how they do it, beating the ordinary fare in the Premiership relentlessly. I wouldn't be surprised if 19 wins out of 20 against said opposition was a record

interesting stats Owzat - do you have a similar analysis for us? i imagine our top4  table would be highly skewed by this season's spectacular results - pretty much unprecedented to do the double over the 1st and 3rd teams and to be unbeaten all the way down to 7th place... 

[stmichael]

at the end of the day. if a team is great, u can pitch them against any good team and u expected them to win.

this mancs team is damn damn over-rated, they played us lost twice, and got trashed at home. they were totally out played by barca, scholes and the diving king is lucky to not get send off.

the great mancs team was when giggs was the best left mid in the world, beckham the best crosser of the ball, keane the mafia boss in the middle, and scholes used to wait outside the box for the kill. andy cole needs 7 chances to score one, but still managed to score a handful. i used to think when peter schmeichel retires their empire will crumples, but sadly crack are showing only now.

name a mancs midfielder will like to take into our team now? hell, in the 90's i will want all their 4 midfielders. but not now, u can see how they are slowly crumpling, in fact, how they wish they have our 3 against barca in the final.
and ya, they won the league, well, sometimes sh.i.t` happens.... Inter won 4 league titles in a row, but we will beat them half drunk, half awake, but i cant say the same against ac milan or juventus.

If you look at this season I think we have been the best side and for the first time in a long time we have played the best football and provided the best entertainment of any team in our league and probably only second on the overall entertainment value stakes to Barcelona for most entertaining World team.

United's humiliating defeat to Barcelona might just be a wake up call to our national media, because I believe they simply back the side who they believe will keep the highest television ratings and highest revenue streams pouring in to the Premier League, as it ultimately means more money for them and that their opinions as journalists are given some credibility outside the UK.

That Barcelona have been the most entertainning side in Europe this season and comprehensively outclassed what is at best a very direct United side with better players than most other sides can afford could sway the TV ratings and World football opinion as to which is the best league in World football, and with it where the best players decide to ply their trade and where those who buy the rights to televise games put their biggest money. By backing this United side more heavily than ever this season as they so desperately needed it to see them through and hailing them as invincible and all conquering our national media have scored a massive own goal and they need to revise their thinking.

We need to keep working hard and developing our game as we have done in each season since Rafa arrived, we also need the Americans to get their hands in their pockets and at least fund the signing of a second top quality striker. Concentrating on our own game and continually improving will see the tables turn.

[DrPepe]

<crosses fingers and strokes lucky rabbit's paw> ...and i hope our form in the 2nd half of the season wasn't just a flash in the pan

[Owzat]

interesting stats Owzat - do you have a similar analysis for us? i imagine our top4  table would be highly skewed by this season's spectacular results - pretty much unprecedented to do the double over the 1st and 3rd teams and to be unbeaten all the way down to 7th place... 

We seem to have a bit of a problem against relegated sides - P18 W12 D4 L2 F43 A14 PTS 40 (Won 66.67%) and not that convincing against the bottom half either. To win 27+ games you need to win 71% of your games, we can't even do that against the bottom half sides so what chance against the rest/overall?

Liverpool Premiership (06/07-08/09)

vs Bottom half sides

Overall : P60 W42 D14 L4 F126 A36 PTS 140 (Won 70.00%)
06/07 : P20 W13 D5 L2 F38 A9 PTS 44 (Won 65.00%)
07/08 : P20 W14 D5 L1 F45 A14 PTS 47 (Won 70.00%)
08/09 : P20 W15 D4 L1 F43 A13 PTS 49 (Won 75.00%)

vs sides 5th to 10th

Overall : P36 W18 D12 L6 F52 A24 PTS 66 (Won 50.00%)
06/07 : P12 W5 D3 L4 F13 A10 PTS 18 (Won 41.67%)
07/08 : P12 W7 D4 L1 F19 A7 PTS 25 (Won 58.33%)
08/09 : P12 W6 D5 L1 F20 A7 PTS 23 (Won 50.00%)


vs Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal

Total : P18 W6 D6 L6 F23 A22 PTS 24 (Won 33.33%)
06/07 : P6 W2 D0 L4 F6 A8 PTS 6 (Won 33.33%)
07/08 : P6 W0 D4 L2 F3 A7 PTS 4 (Won 0.00%)
08/09 : P6 W4 D2 L0 F14 A7 PTS 14 (Won 66.67%)

It's the sides 5-10 causing us a lot of grief, we beat each of them this season but only ONCE

Liverpool doubles 08/09

1. Man Utd

3. Chelsea

4-12. NONE

13. Bolton
14. Portsmouth
15. Blackburn
16. Sunderland

18. Newcastle

20. WBA

Man Utd also didn't do that well against teams between 4th and 12th, but did manage doubles over everyone from 9th down to 20th except Newcastle.

And overall under Rafa our record against those troublesome sides 5th down to 10th is :-

5th-10th (04/05-08/09)

Home : P29 W19 D10 L0 F52 A13 PTS 67 (Won 65.52%)
Away : P29 W12 D8 L9 F29 A26 PTS 44 (Won 41.38%)

Drawing around a third of the games at home to them, losing and drawing just under a third of the games away to them. Even in the last three seasons it isn't any better :-

5th-10th (06/07-08/09)

Home : P18 W10 D8 L0 F34 A8 PTS 38 (Won 55.56%)
Away : P18 W8 D4 L6 F18 A16 PTS 28 (Won 44.44%)

Way too many home draws, too many away defeats. It's hard to believe we can have scored nearly two goals a game at home in those games and still dropped 16 points - half of those dropped points at home came in 08/09 (West Ham 0-0, Fulham 0-0, Everton 1-1, Man City 1-1)

[Sir Roger]

interesting stats Owzat - do you have a similar analysis for us? i imagine our top4  table would be highly skewed by this season's spectacular results - pretty much unprecedented to do the double over the 1st and 3rd teams and to be unbeaten all the way down to 7th place... 

We seem to have a bit of a problem against relegated sides - P18 W12 D4 L2 F43 A14 PTS 40 (Won 66.67%) and not that convincing against the bottom half either. To win 27+ games you need to win 71% of your games, we can't even do that against the bottom half sides so what chance against the rest/overall?

Liverpool Premiership (06/07-08/09)

vs Bottom half sides

Overall : P60 W42 D14 L4 F126 A36 PTS 140 (Won 70.00%)
06/07 : P20 W13 D5 L2 F38 A9 PTS 44 (Won 65.00%)
07/08 : P20 W14 D5 L1 F45 A14 PTS 47 (Won 70.00%)
08/09 : P20 W15 D4 L1 F43 A13 PTS 49 (Won 75.00%)

vs sides 5th to 10th

Overall : P36 W18 D12 L6 F52 A24 PTS 66 (Won 50.00%)
06/07 : P12 W5 D3 L4 F13 A10 (Won 41.67%)
07/08 : P12 W7 D4 L1 F19 A7 (Won 58.33%)
08/09 : P12 W6 D5 L1 F20 A7 (Won 50.00%)


vs Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal

Total : P18 W6 D6 L6 F23 A22 PTS 24 (Won 33.33%)
06/07 : P6 W2 D0 L4 F6 A8 PTS 6 (Won 33.33%)
07/08 : P6 W0 D4 L2 F3 A7 PTS 4 (Won 0.00%)
08/09 : P6 W4 D2 L0 F14 A7 PTS 14 (Won 66.67%)

It's the sides 5-10 causing us a lot of grief, we beat each of them this season but only ONCE

Liverpool doubles 08/09

1. Man Utd

3. Chelsea

4-12. NONE

13. Bolton
14. Portsmouth
15. Blackburn
16. Sunderland

18. Newcastle

20. WBA

Man Utd also didn't do that well against teams between 4th and 12th, but did manage doubles over everyone from 9th down to 20th except Newcastle.

And overall under Rafa our record against those troublesome sides 5th down to 10th is :-

5th-10th (04/05-08/09)

Home : P29 W19 D10 L0 F52 A13 PTS 67 (Won 65.52%)
Away : P29 W12 D8 L9 F29 A26 PTS 44 (Won 41.38%)

Drawing around a third of the games at home to them, losing and drawing just under a third of the games away to them. Even in the last three seasons it isn't any better :-

5th-10th (06/07-08/09)

Home : P18 W10 D8 L0 F34 A8 PTS 38 (Won 55.56%)
Away : P18 W8 D4 L6 F18 A16 PTS 28 (Won 44.44%)

Way too many home draws, too many away defeats. It's hard to believe we can have scored nearly two goals a game at home in those games and still dropped 16 points - half of those dropped points at home came in 08/09 (West Ham 0-0, Fulham 0-0, Everton 1-1, Man City 1-1)

Anyone know the reason for this?

[Owzat]

Anyone know the reason for this?

People other than Bermenstein starting match threads

People not wearing rose tinted specs and "believing"

Global warming

Sultana and s*y putting our games all over the shop

Andrei Voronin, Lucas Leiva and Philippe Degen

Referees

Rafa-rants

Uranus in alignment with Manchester

[Sir Roger]

Sounds plausible to me
Especially the bit about my ars'e

[Sir Roger]

If we put our strongest eleven against the mancs or chelski who is the best team
I would say this is our strongest eleven:

Reina
Arbeloa
Skirtl
Carragher
Aurellio
Kuyt
Gerrard
Alonso
Mascherano
Benayoun
Torres

If you put the other teams best eleven against them man for man who would come out on top?

Some changes:

Reina
Johnson
Insua
Carragher
Agger
Aurellio
Gerrard
Mascherano
Kuyt
Benayoun
Torres

Same question...?

[Benny The Noon]

Didnt even need gerrard to beat them mate

[Sir Roger]

Didnt even need gerrard to beat them mate

I know
But if we compare their best 11 to ours, which is the better team?

[Benny The Noon]

Well i think its very close mate and i think we edge the mancs because of the extra quality of torres and gerrard compared to their strikers and cm but think its very very close with chelsea and hard to seperate them . Think the only thing they have on us is the extra threat they have from set pieces - something we lack .

[Sir Roger]

Well i think its very close mate and i think we edge the mancs because of the extra quality of torres and gerrard compared to their strikers and cm but think its very very close with chelsea and hard to seperate them . Think the only thing they have on us is the extra threat they have from set pieces - something we lack .

So which of their players in the same or similar positions do you think are better than ours?