Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

Are you saying Veron didn't struggle in the prem ? If he was such a success why did the Mancs let him go to Chelsea for a £16mil pound loss.

Or Rush didnt struggle in Italy ? Why did Rush who was Europes most lethal striker prior to going to Juve only last a season before going back to Liverpool

Did Vidic settle immediately ?

As for stating opinion as fact then please read your own post.

What about Des Walker as well - outstanding in England struggled badly in Italy.

There is a multitude of players who have struggled in various leagues but prospered in others - multitude of players that have struggled initially but gone onto shine.

[Stu the Red]

The reason I said end of conversation is because its exactly that. You're talking complete and utter rubbish again and I can't be bothered explaining to you in a way you'll understand how wrong and stupid you are.

Because quite simply, no matter how much I dumb it down... you won't understand because you're to stupid to comprehend anything other than your incorrect, misguided, repetative and quite frankly clueless opinions.

[Benny The Noon]

No what you are doing Stu is avoiding the question because the players mentioned disprove your "Fact" especially when it comes to players settling in different countries and leagues.

Veron struggled in the Prem - that is a fact unless you can disprove otherwise

Rush struggled in Italy - that's a fact even admitted by the man himself in his bio - unless you want to say he is talking rubbish ?

[devaney]

Stu - to stupid is too stupid and not to stupid. Now stop being so stupid and go and have a few beers 

On a serious note I thought the debate was actually about players successfully learning to do new things after the age of 23. Not improving with experience or achieving success in one country and not another. Still haven't seen one example of a player who has achieved that.

[Stu the Red]

Stu - to stupid is too stupid and not to stupid. Now stop being so stupid and go and have a few beers 

On a serious note I thought the debate was actually about players successfully learning to do new things after the age of 23. Not improving with experience or achieving success in one country and not another. Still haven't seen one example of a player who has achieved that.

Intend two

Bell end!

Thats what the idiot does, he tries to sound clever by stating things like... Remember Pires and Henry.... they were ***** then become world class (bearing in mind Arsenal finished second with them as regulars in the season they "*****" in).



As I said Betty, its nothing to do with avoiding anything. Its quite simply I can't be arsed explaining something to someone who is far to stupid, pig ignorant and full of themselves to understand or even god forbid learn off someone.

[Benny The Noon]

No one mentioned Pires and Henry though

People have mentioned other players though but you don't seem to want to address those players and there struggles - including one player who has admitted his own struggles.

I don't expect you to explain Verons or Rush's struggles because simply you can't

[metalhead]

No one mentioned Pires and Henry though

People have mentioned other players though but you don't seem to want to address those players and there struggles - including one player who has admitted his own struggles.

I don't expect you to explain Verons or Rush's struggles because simply you can't

But struggling has nothing to do with change in ability benny, it doesn't affect or alter the ability to play football. For example, if I'm a good footballer who plays for a team and my team doesn't get the best out of my abilities then I'm going to struggle, be it communication or the players around me are just not in the same wave length, however, my footballing skills are still there but not utilized properly. Players like Veron and Rush struggled because they couldn't understand the game played in England and Italy respectively, but they were still class players and their ability to spot a pass (in Veron's case) and to move in right positions (Rush) were still intact. Struggling for me is linked with consistency, and you just show a lot of inconsistencies.

[Stu the Red]

No one mentioned Pires and Henry though

People have mentioned other players though but you don't seem to want to address those players and there struggles - including one player who has admitted his own struggles.

I don't expect you to explain Verons or Rush's struggles because simply you can't

No GYBS, its not because I can't... its because I don't see the point in wasting my time trying to explain something to someone who isn't intelligent enough to grasp what I'm saying.

And you mentioned Henry a couple of posts ago.

Go back and check, or are you going to come up with yet another opinion about how you didn't do that?

The forum was a lot better without you here, why don't you get the hint and just do everyone a favour?

[RedAnt]

Michael Owen was a one footed player, useless in the air. Time, training and coaching helped him develope these parts to his game. He continued to learn how to use these more effectively throughout his career, and this was doing things in the pitch that he couldnt when younger. 23 isn't anything to do with it. If you can't be taught to kick a ball by the age of 3, something's wrong with you. Everything else is simply honing what you are already capable of. Some will utterly neglect a skill since they don't need it, whilst others like to be more complete. As I've already said, a defender disent need to have finishing skills. He might never bother with them, until at another time, maybe when he's 25 and decides he wants to be a striker, therefore learning skills he's never even looked at before. So, again, the statement "if a player can't do something by 23 he can never do it. FACT" is false. I merely mentioned it, and somehow we're discussing something totally different now.

[Benny The Noon]

No one mentioned Pires and Henry though

People have mentioned other players though but you don't seem to want to address those players and there struggles - including one player who has admitted his own struggles.

I don't expect you to explain Verons or Rush's struggles because simply you can't

No GYBS, its not because I can't... its because I don't see the point in wasting my time trying to explain something to someone who isn't intelligent enough to grasp what I'm saying.

And you mentioned Henry a couple of posts ago.

Go back and check, or are you going to come up with yet another opinion about how you didn't do that?

The forum was a lot better without you here, why don't you get the hint and just do everyone a favour?

So two simple questions

Did Rush struggle in Italy and did Veron struggle in the Prem.

You don't have to explain anything - just a simple answer that I'm sure you are capable of answering.

Or you can just rate and rave and throw foul mouth insults about ( exactly the reason why you were kicked off this place twice before )

[devaney]

Red Ant - I watched an awful lot of Michael Owen during his early years and useless is not a word I would use to describe any aspect of his game. I don't believe Michael did anything other than develop skills that already existed and I think that is the key difference. I think Stu has made a generalisation that perhaps overly simplifies the issue. The interesting point that you make is that if we haven't seen a player display a certain skill how do we necessarily know if it is new or not. I do subscribe to the overall theory but then I am sure that there have been players that have been successful at doing new things after the age of 23. 

BTN - You are asking Stu to answer a question that isn't relevant to the debate. Rushie and Veron's struggles were nothing to do with developing new skills after the age of 23 or am I missing something.

[Benny The Noon]

Early in the debate RedAnt mentioned that Sakho is also coming into a new league and at times players need time to settle with Stu responding that it was ***** and great players settle straight away regardless of what league they are in etc etc used numerous examples of players that did settle quickly and also mentioned ones that didn't settle ( around about page 11 I think )

Hence why I was said nothing is set in stone

Players constantly learn and develop throughout their career - there is not set age or time limit. Some peak early and don't develop or learn anything early where as some stop later in life - that's just human nature, people develop at differing rates.

And also why I suggested that some players regardless of ability will take time to settle or even never settle in certain leagues. Veron was a perfect example - outstanding in Italy and for Argentina but struggled in the prem etc.

[metalhead]

Early in the debate RedAnt mentioned that Sakho is also coming into a new league and at times players need time to settle with Stu responding that it was ***** and great players settle straight away regardless of what league they are in etc etc used numerous examples of players that did settle quickly and also mentioned ones that didn't settle ( around about page 11 I think )

Hence why I was said nothing is set in stone

Players constantly learn and develop throughout their career - there is not set age or time limit. Some peak early and don't develop or learn anything early where as some stop later in life - that's just human nature, people develop at differing rates.

And also why I suggested that some players regardless of ability will take time to settle or even never settle in certain leagues. Veron was a perfect example - outstanding in Italy and for Argentina but struggled in the prem etc.

Mate, again, adapting to a certain league has nothing to do with ability.

[Benny The Noon]

I know - I never said it was mate.

[Stu the Red]

No one mentioned Pires and Henry though

People have mentioned other players though but you don't seem to want to address those players and there struggles - including one player who has admitted his own struggles.

I don't expect you to explain Verons or Rush's struggles because simply you can't

No GYBS, its not because I can't... its because I don't see the point in wasting my time trying to explain something to someone who isn't intelligent enough to grasp what I'm saying.

And you mentioned Henry a couple of posts ago.

Go back and check, or are you going to come up with yet another opinion about how you didn't do that?

The forum was a lot better without you here, why don't you get the hint and just do everyone a favour?

So two simple questions

Did Rush struggle in Italy and did Veron struggle in the Prem.

You don't have to explain anything - just a simple answer that I'm sure you are capable of answering.

Or you can just rate and rave and throw foul mouth insults about ( exactly the reason why you were kicked off this place twice before )

Really? You want to go down this route?

Are you sure?