Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

:laugh:  You guys are like those bunch of idiot dwarfs that I read in a story that are prepared to go to war because one group believed that "a straight line is the shortest distance between two points" but other group believed that "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line"...

[RedAnt]

It got dragged all over the place. But I stand by my point. Players can continue to learn beyond 23. FACT.

[Benny The Noon]

There is no set. "Age" where a player is fully developed and will not get any better "technically ".

It's human nature that people will develop at a different rate and will reach their peak at different times.

And players will need time to adjust into a different league or club - that's been proven many times by multiple number of players. Some will adapt quickly , some will take their time and some never will.

Veron is a classic example - outstanding in seria A but just couldn't adapt to the prem, as soon as he went back to Italy he found his form again.

Maradona couldn't settle in Spain but was wonderful in Italy

Rush couldn't settle in Italy but was world class in England.

There is never going to be a set time limit for player development

Sakho will hopefully develop his game to the prem - he looks like he has the ability to do well

[Stu the Red]

Wenger sums it up on player development

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RLrxaZaVfQ

What the f*ck would Wenger know?

Betty the loon and Ant obviously know better than 95% of professional coaches, scouts and football developers. They're right, we're all wrong...



Arsene.... think you need a new job mate, you clearly don't know as a much as Betty or Ant...

[Stu the Red]

There is no set. "Age" where a player is fully developed and will not get any better "technically ".

It's human nature that people will develop at a different rate and will reach their peak at different times.

And players will need time to adjust into a different league or club - that's been proven many times by multiple number of players. Some will adapt quickly , some will take their time and some never will.

Veron is a classic example - outstanding in seria A but just couldn't adapt to the prem, as soon as he went back to Italy he found his form again.

Maradona couldn't settle in Spain but was wonderful in Italy

Rush couldn't settle in Italy but was world class in England.

There is never going to be a set time limit for player development

Sakho will hopefully develop his game to the prem - he looks like he has the ability to do well

       

If there was every a prize for missing the point... you'd win it every time!!! You are so f*cking stupid its unreal

[Benny The Noon]

You had a point ? Well that's a first


I do believe I was referring to your idiotic statement

"If a player can't do something at 23 he can never do it. FACT."

It's not fact at all - it's an opinion , your opinion , and it's an opinion you will never prove to be 100% factual.

Hence why I stated IMO that people develop at different rates in their lives so people will still learn to do things as they go through life - that is a fact

Then you started on about players not needing to adapt to new leagues and country if they are good enough and used Ozil as an example - I have also posted examples of great players who failed to settle in different leagues and countries.

If you want to use "football coaches and scouts etc must know better" then ensure you stay consistent when "football coaches etc " rate players you don't.

Enjoy your hangover

[devaney]

Maybe some examples of players that have developed new attributes/techniques after the age of 23 would help this debate. Personally I cannot think of many. Players obviously have the potential to improve with experience but they do not become vastly different players.Is that not the point that Stu and Wenger are making or am I missing the point as well? Wouldn't be the first time would it 

[RedAnt]

Maybe some examples of players that have developed new attributes/techniques after the age of 23 would help this debate. Personally I cannot think of many. Players obviously have the potential to improve with experience but they do not become vastly different players.Is that not the point that Stu and Wenger are making or am I missing the point as well? Wouldn't be the first time would it 

Stu claimed that if a player couldn't do something by 23, he could never do it. Now if he means in simplistic terms, ie kick a ball, turn, tackle, do keepy-ups etc, then he might have a point.

But a player who can do 1000 kick ups at 20, might be able to do 2000 by the time he's 24. A player might not be able to run fast, or  maybe he could never outmuscle a player, but in time, as he learns, he can do these things.

I claimed Stu's "fact" was bollox. Apparently I'm an idiot because I read his fact literally, and didnt delve into his mind for the real meaning behind the false fact.

[Benny The Noon]

Don't GK statistically get better at shot stopping as they get older and reach their peak early 30's ?

Look at Friedel - it was clear he just got better and better at shot stopping as he was poor with us but superb for Blackburn etc

[RedAnt]

From the moment we're born we're all capable of doing everything. If we have feet, there's no reason we can't kick a football. Some are more natural and will do it better. Some will have to work hard. The argument that these abilities hit all their peaks at 23 is rediculous.

One example would be a defender who at 24 decides he's going to be a striker. So he trains as a striker instead, working on different skills. He would have always had these skills, since way before 23, just like we all do. But have we had the level of coaching required to develope them? The facilities? The desire? The opportunity? The urge? Maybe, or maybe not.

Stu has used all sorts of things to support this "fact" and once more the thread is truly derailed.

Sahko has a lot to learn. He knows it. I know it. BR knows it. Everyone except Stu knows it.

[Benny The Noon]

Sakho definitely has a lot to learn to become a very good CB in the prem.

He has all the physical attributes needed to do well , strong in the air , at times looks good on the ball but at times plays the wrong ball and appears to dive in too soon , not sure if he reads the game very well - but those are areas he can develop easily.

[Stu the Red]

Maybe some examples of players that have developed new attributes/techniques after the age of 23 would help this debate. Personally I cannot think of many. Players obviously have the potential to improve with experience but they do not become vastly different players.Is that not the point that Stu and Wenger are making or am I missing the point as well? Wouldn't be the first time would it 

Thats exactly the point...

And thank you for mentioning me in the same scentance as Arsene Wenger... its obvious you know your stuff

[Stu the Red]

So you honestly believe you have a player who's 23 who is poor at something and you think you can teach him to be good at something?

                       

Yeah, we'll just teach Sahko to read the game, position himself properly and not dive into taclkes.

The same way we...

Taught and coached Baros to play with his head up
Taught and coached Gerrard to play the "Xabi Alonso role" (by the way, who is a far better player than most)
Taught and coached Sissoko to pass
Taught and coached Babel make good decisions and become consistent
Taught Traore to head, position himself and read a game (he had all the physical attributes you know)
Bulked Crouch up so he had more power
Gave Emile Heskey a skipping rope to improve his balance...

Fact is the pair of you are talking absolute nonsenical bull ***** thats based on nothing what so ever to do with football.

If a player is not technically good enough by 16/17 they never ever will be. If a player doesn't have the understanding of the game by 18/19... maybe 20... they never ever will have. If a player isn't physically good enough by 22, he never ever will be. Not ever has it happened, not ever will it happen. I repeat... it never ever has and never ever will.

And In reply to whichever Idiot that decided to have a pop at Veron... Anyone who thinks Veron was a poor player is nothing short of f*cking plain idiotic and quite frankly should take up following another sport because its blatently obvious you don't have a clue about football.

I was kind of hoping someone was going to use the famuous... "remember Pires and Henry" arguement

Torres adapted straight away, because he was class.
Alonso adapted straight away, because he was class.
Bergkamp needed seven or eight games to adjust but still shown obvious signs of class straight away.
Ozil stil needs time to adjust, but is showing obvious signs of class straight away.
Hyypia adapted straight away, because he was class.
Henry and Pires needed a couple of games to adapt but shown obvious signs straight away and helped Arsenal finish second in their first season... guess why... because they were class.

Class players show it from the off. Babel's and Traore's and "he's the physical attributes so that means he has potential" types... don't.

End of converstation.

[Benny The Noon]

So why did Veron struggle in the prem ? No one said he was a poor player - just that he didn't settle in the prem - unless you think he was a success and didn't bomb out at both Utd and Chelsea

Why did Rush struggle in Italy ?

How long did it take Ronaldo to adjust ?

Henry took about 4 months

Vidic took a season , Evra took a good 6 months plus.

[Stu the Red]

So why did Veron struggle in the prem ? No one said he was a poor player - just that he didn't settle in the prem - unless you think he was a success and didn't bomb out at both Utd and Chelsea

Why did Rush struggle in Italy ?

How long did it take Ronaldo to adjust ?

Henry took about 4 months

Vidic took a season , Evra took a good 6 months plus.

Opinion's stated as facts AGAIN!