Liverpool FC Forum

[skipper]

Haven't posted in a while but ahead of this clash I just have a few words:

T.wat the mancs.

Torres to shine.  Ronaldo to cry.

[112-1077774096]

Yes there has been much learning done over the last few weeks. Some of us ardent anti-rotationers have marvelled at how well the team has played, and have had to admit that the light at the end of the tunnel visa-vis number of rotations (although a sneaking feeling persists that if we played Pompey and Birmingham in consecutive matches now, Torres wouldn't be sat on his erse for both of them) was no such thing. Despite however the changes coming thick and fast, the team has probably been in the richest run of form since rafa took over.

For my part, the defending in particular has made me sit up and blink. It really is a testimony to Rafa's coaching ability that despite the chopping and changing of the full-backs, we have managed to defend set-pieces in particular with apparent ease, despite the changes. As I said a couple of pages ago, the zonal marking and lack of offside trap does make it easier but whatever, credit where credit is due it has been a fantastic achievement and something I wouldn't have thought possible (or if you prefer something I'd have been totally wrong about ).

Similarly, the more ardent followers of Alonso would probably have to concede that perhaps he isn't quite such an integral figure as they imagined. The so-called "unseen work" is presumeably still unseen because it's now getting done by somebody else, while the rhythm and flow which he undoubtedly brings to the game is also coming from elsewhere.

For my part, despite the above I've been a bit disappointed in Masherano and TBH, despite calling it different before I'd still have Alonso back in the side if fit (although obviously he won't play Sunday). Hopefully however, the proof that the team can function without him over a sutained period will have the dual effect of perhaps encouraging Xabi to move out of his comfort zone and revisit the excellent form he showed in his first season, and perhaps it will also temper some of his most ardent fans just a fraction.

Well, I just know that when Alonso was available he played almost if not all premiership games this season. I also know he has signed a contract until 2012, and that Rafa himself considers him a key player, so yes, I don't have any reasons to think that he's not a very important member of this squad.

In the blip, many posters that now seem to be boasting and gloating in quite a funny and traditional way by them, talked about Gerrard's and Mascherano's bad performances, while some of us said we'd see more of that couple.

So as he traditionally does Peewee is putting the posters in very separated corners and antagonical positions, because we don't truly think that way.

My self, A so called Alonso brigade poster, has defended and praised Mascherano since he came here. I also see that, thanks to quality midfielders like Mascherano, when Alonso is injured you can now play a quality midfielder and we won't miss him that much.

But that means we were wrong by admiring Alonso? Hell no, seriously if someone questions the quality of Alonso as a midfielder, he has a serious bias or understanding of football problem.

Of course Mascherano is a great player. Of course a midfield made by Gerrard and Mascherano doesn't have to MISS nor Alonso nor ANYONE. It's good to have quality players to rotate. An asset for the club.

But that doesn't mean we were wrong praising Alonso. If Mascherano is injured 3 weeks, Alonso would be able perfectly to give Liverpool a quality midfield alongside Gerrard, and Mascherano wouldn't be that missed either.

So excuse me Peewee, but we're not as far in our positions as you argue now. We're (1) not so extremists in our positions.


(1) The Alonso brigadists, Lando, Nanny, Bad Bob Sabre, Adamnbarret, you know it's a big list of fans of Alonso

(2) And for the record, and despite I like Alonso slightly more than Mascherano, I also agree that Mascherano should play ahead of him for this incoming game, it wouldn't be wise to give Alonso suddenly that game after being inactive. Our positions are not white or black, but grey, FFS!

i know you are not extremists mate and it wasnt aimed solely at you, but earlier in the season certain people would not see any other blame other than the absence of alonso, thats now been shown to not be the case, just wanted to point it out, others seem pretty keen to point things out so i thought i would join in     

[holylamb2006]

in excatly 12 hours we'll be watching our beloved liverpool play the mancs

Do u know wat i CANT WAIT

ps: hopefully the weather is great....

[Reg]

21.45 kick off my time.  Come on red boys, time to show the Mancs they are history.

[ruskiy playmaker]

There is nothing worse than a manc.  Come on Reds, please shut those arrogant b@stards up tommorow!!!

[xd3vilx]

Come on Reds. Beat the mancs and shut them up.

[112-1077774096]

There is nothing worse than a manc.  Come on Reds, please shut those arrogant b@stards up tommorow!!!

how about two mancs   

[Toffeehater]

Right here waiting for you, Rock to start this thread ..

I am taken to believe that last evening's starting lineup with Marseille was, in the eyes of Rafa, his best 11 available today (not counting Xabi, Agger & Pennant). He threw in his 'As' surely as he considered this a CL 'finals'. So for those not even coming in as subs, I felt we can presumed that they maybe put on sale this Jan or end season - Crouch or Momo? Voronin or Leto?

Thus for this coming wkend 'vital' PL match at home with MU i expect a 'no changes' starting line up - but ofcourse baring injuries to any.  Many eyes (including the Yanks) will be seeing for themselves the Best Of LFC this Sunday.

mash picked up a knock , he got kicked by his own defender lol , yea but if rafa picks a good team, with a good balance , manure shud be no problem

[Toffeehater]

Riise would be turned inside out, outside in and get slaughtered by the Man U right winger - it could be Ronaldo, Giggs or Nani. So I will feel safer with Arbeloa as leftback, at least he knows the basics of defending and marking. Other than that, I've no complaint with the line-up against Marseille to start against Man U.

arbeloa gets pushed off the ball easily , he doesn't put in the effort that riise does , so saying that he wud get turned inside out is completely sh!t . riise does better at left back , watch the marseille game , i would choose finnan ahead of arbeloa , firstly as he is a better attacking full back , secondly he is a tough defender to get past , tougher that arbeloa that is .

[Toffeehater]

Nov 4 2001

That was the last time we beat them in the league at home.

To fuckin long pay back time we should have beat them last season jammy B@stards.

if only it wasn't for john ' o shea  , we ran them ragged last season  , but their kepper was unbeatable , their defence was sh!t but they had the luck and in injury time they beat us . argh , cmon u redmen

[Toffeehater]

Oh and btw, Rafa's next defeat will be his 50th defeat in charge of Liverpool and he's only just past 200 games in charge.

so is that good or bad ?

[Toffeehater]

this is the team which i feel rafa will pick

    Reina

Finnan  carragher  agger/hypia   riise

gerrard     alonso     masch        kewell

               torres    kuyt

Gerrard on the right , arguably where he plays best , or where we can get the best out of him , although i don't see rafa risking alonso in such a big game due to his lack of match fit , if alonso does not play then yossi will come to the right and gerrard will revert to the middle , then again rafa could put babel on the wings where he is less effective then as a striker , kewell , the unsung hero? he has been getting better and better and i rmb alot of u guyz were saying that before he was coming back , "is there a cup final coming"  , " he prob be injured"  , " won't even last 3 game" , kewell has been in good form , 2 assist against Mars A , setting up the goal for torres when we were 1-1 with porto , so i would not be surprised if he does have a good game tonight with a assit and a goal . For me i am going with a 3-1 win , same as 2001 . gerrard , torres and kewell , ronaldo to get the goal for them . Mascherano ill have to be at the best of his game to keep tevez quiet , and the manu defence .

Come on you red men

[Bad Bob]

To elaborate, I think Mascherano is a fantastic player but doesn't do enough with the ball going forward.  In terms of distribution, Alonso is a better option.  Defensively, I don't think Alonso matches the Argentine in terms of pace or tenacity in harrying ball carriers but his defensive positioning and tackling are superior (Masch opts for the risky slide tackle too often, IMO) so it's fairly close in that department.  Overall then, Alonso shades it for me and I'll be happy to have him back.

maybe if you went to a game you will see the work all the players do off the ball, obviously watching on tv you can only see what they show, sadly this is the same for me the last 5 years but thats why I try and talk about things i know about as opposed to speculating on who is the better player, they both have their plus points but the fact we have performed very well without alonso speaks volumes and shows people can stop blaming the 'blip' on his absence

At one point you were suggesting the blip was down to Pako leaving and that our recovery was due to Rafa seeing the light!  I'm waiting for the day when you stick to talking about things you know.

well i know you gave me a card based on past things and to settle a score as opposed to giving me one because i deserved one, hows that for starters bob,

the fact is your football knowledge is minimal and based on others comments, seriously bob, go to a game and then base your opinions on players based on that, actually see the work they do as opposed to following the camera and what other posters say on here, form your own opinion.

my opinion on pako has not changed, our loss of form was down to him going and the continual over rotation, so no changes there bob so i don't know where you got your ridiculous notion that i have changed my mind, but i know you have never let facts get in the way of you having a dig before so i suppose i shouldn't expect that from you know.

just a question bob, have you even ever played football at ANY competitive level?

question for you Peewee, do you still believe this one as well?

one think no one has mentioned yet and i perish at the thought, but what if the players are trying to force him out or trying to force him into changing his system by putting in inept performances, its not beyond the realms of possibility

Keep 'em coming, guy--we've all got so much to learn from someone that used to go to the match.

[Toffeehater]

why are we fighting with each other?

[babu]

why are we fighting with each other?

shut up or i'll smash ur face in.