LIVERPOOL VS ATHLETICO MADRID - Anfield : 04/11/08, 19.45pm

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby account deleted by request » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:08 pm

tonyeh wrote:But would Owen be the right choice? I must say I have my mis-givings about bringing Owen back into the fold.

Other than that, I agree with all you've said.

Owen was just an example mate, but as I said he wouldn't be the answer on his own.

We needed a creative second striker AND a clinical striker for when Torres was injured etc etc. We couldn't afford both, so we bought Keane ..... neither fish nor fowl. He isn't clinical and he isn't a creative second striker, he's a good player who plays his best football running from deep. That means he needs a target man INFRONT of him, if we are to get the best out of him.

If we could have kept Crouch, Keane would have been a great
buy. Without a target man we have to hope that Torres and Keane can work something out....... I wouldn't hold my breath waiting!

Presumably thats why we have shown interest in Heskey ?
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Postby maguskwt » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:10 pm

s@int wrote:
tonyeh wrote:But would Owen be the right choice? I must say I have my mis-givings about bringing Owen back into the fold.

Owen is a very good example...

surely Rafa can see it and attempt a bid some time soon... both Keane/Owen, Torres/Owen sounds good to me...
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Postby tonyeh » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:13 pm

s@int wrote:
tonyeh wrote:But would Owen be the right choice? I must say I have my mis-givings about bringing Owen back into the fold.

Other than that, I agree with all you've said.

Owen was just an example mate, but as I said he wouldn't be the answer on his own.

We needed a creative second striker AND a clinical striker for when Torres was injured etc etc. We couldn't afford both, so we bought Keane ..... neither fish nor fowl. He isn't clinical and he isn't a creative second striker, he's a good player who plays his best football running from deep. That means he needs a target man INFRONT of him, if we are to get the best out of him.

If we could have kept Crouch, Keane would have been a great
buy. Without a target man we have to hope that Torres and Keane can work something out....... I wouldn't hold my breath waiting!

Presumably thats why we have shown interest in Heskey ?

Um, rather Owen than Heskey any day of the week.

I have to say though. I'd be at a loss to suggest a realistic option for another clinical striker, who by default would be scraping for games with torres when the Spaniard gets fit.

During the Summer, I was very excited about the prospect of David Villa maybe coming over, but that's well off the cards now.
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Postby johnymarcu » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:34 pm

gerard has dissapointed me.... Steven Gerrard, the saint, has spent his entire football career lecturing other football players on how to behave on the pitch, especially in regard to diving... look at him yesterday...
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Postby GYBS » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:39 pm

we were never going to get villa tbh . I think its creativity in midfield will lack more than anything . Its why i really wanted someone like silva or maybe arshavin which would of increased creativity and they can both play wide either side or behind one striker . Thats where i wanted the 20 mil spent , not on another striker or should i say someone like keane .
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Postby aCe' » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:50 pm

im not saying 4-4-2 would be the answer to our problems or anything but with Torres out Rafa should have surely realized that playing 2 men upfront would be better suited against the so-called smaller sides..
Playing the 4-5-1 we never look dangerous going forward as a team..our only danger (and lets be realistic about this for a change) is Torres and his pace and ability on the ball.. hes a great player and while he's been brilliant playing alone upfront i think its a little too much to expect for the lad...
Rafa brought in Keane, and quite honestly i wish he didnt.. While i'd agree that with Crouch bound to leave and voronin and Kuyt being the limited players they are we needed another striker upfront.. it was always clear that Keane at 20mill was overpriced and would most probably not live up to his price tag... hes dissapointed so far but Rafa has surely paved the way for him to do so..

The atletico game, and before that the Tottenham game were both examples of bad tactics and management by Benitez that cost us points... very similar to the previous seasons where Benitez had effectively strangled any chance of us playing any sort of attractive or even attacking football by setting up the team the way he did...

Number 9 and GYBS you both obviously know fck all about football so basically ill say the next part simple and clear so both of you can understand it with little trouble..hopefully
against Chelsea and Manutd, we werent expected to play attacking football and both games were aways likely to have very few goals in them... the 3 goals we scored were LUCKY and while we clearly outplayed both sides in the respective games, it wasnt because of our attacking football or great play upfront, it was because we setup better than they did in both games and all credit to the manager and players for a job well done in the day...

Against Tottenham we let a lead slip and we did so in embarrasing fashion.. we took off Keane when we shouldnt have and it clearly backfired because soon thereafter Tottnham dominated the game and we did very little to resist an inevitable failure in the day...

Same story against Atletico.. Never looked likely to come up with something going forward, and as soon as we were 1-0 down it was fairly clear to most that unless changes were made, we wouldnt be coming out of that fixture with anything... Indeed Rafa did make some changes but they were -YET AGAIN- to the detriment of the team, and even the players (Keane).. you go on about missed chances from setpieces and a shot from the edge of the area that was closed down by the defender standing infront of the player about to shoot ?! thats bullsht ! we were poor going forward and the only positive we got from that game was the point we eventually came out with because of an undeserved penalty.. the whole world knows we didnt desere anything..you might aswell accept it !

back to the 4-4-2 issue im not saying that 4-4-2 is the answer but atleast it offers us more options to pick out going forward... with Mascherano and Alonso playing in that 4-5-1 that leaves us with very little options going forward besides an out of position gerrard, an out of poistion kuyt and Riera and Torres..
When the whole thing was brought up it was a response to the Keane alone upfront issue and many have go on to say that he isnt the player to be played alone upfront and i totally agree with that... neither is kuyt, same with Babel and same with N'gog... Why did we still play 1 upfront when we were trailing to Tottenham, same with Atletico ?!
Should have gone for a 4-4-2 with Keane and Kuyt upfront and 2 proper wingers with Gerrard and Alonso in the middle because let's face it... Anything else with Torres out of the side was always going to be a little too conervative and negative against most sides..
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Postby destro » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:26 pm

johnymarcu wrote:gerard has dissapointed me.... Steven Gerrard, the saint, has spent his entire football career lecturing other football players on how to behave on the pitch, especially in regard to diving... look at him yesterday...

??? Would you like to explain exactly what he did wrong, he went for the ball got to it first and then there was contact and he went down, does that just about sum it up ?

Should Gerrard be held responsible for a player making a stupid challenge, like he said, outside the box that is a free kick every day of the week so why should it be any different inside the box.

Three things to consider

1) Should it have been a penalty = it was a foul so yeah

2) Did Gerrard use his experience and play for it = yeah I would say he probabley did

3) Would I complain if he did the same thing and got the same result in EVERY other game this season and it either won the game for us or got us a point = I wouldnt give a flying f'uck !!
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Postby GOAT_2.0 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:29 pm

destro wrote:
johnymarcu wrote:gerard has dissapointed me.... Steven Gerrard, the saint, has spent his entire football career lecturing other football players on how to behave on the pitch, especially in regard to diving... look at him yesterday...

??? Would you like to explain exactly what he did wrong, he went for the ball got to it first and then there was contact and he went down, does that just about sum it up ?

Should Gerrard be held responsible for a player making a stupid challenge, like he said, outside the box that is a free kick every day of the week so why should it be any different inside the box.

Three things to consider

1) Should it have been a penalty = it was a foul so yeah

2) Did Gerrard use his experience and play for it = yeah I would say he probabley did

3) Would I complain if he did the same thing and got the same result in EVERY other game this season and it either won the game for us or got us a point = I wouldnt give a flying f'uck !!

To me it looked like gerrard went crashing into the other dude

Then evidently he knifed him in the back on the way through  :D
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Postby GYBS » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:35 pm

Ace- do something for me - go and watch the highlights or the games again - the spurs one and the one from last night and tell me how many goals we would of scored if the chances we had were taken by the players ? they would both of been resounding victories. We didnt loose because of any tactics or any subs - we lost because the players on the pitch didnt take those chances- poor finishing lost us the game on sat and poor finishing last night meant we only got one point from the game . The chances were there - plenty of them - far more than what both spurs and madrid had - we just didnt take them - thats not rafas fault or tactics thats the players fault. ignoreing gerrards chance we still had plenty of other glaring chances to score .
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Postby erreala 1909 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:39 pm

Great match that of yesterday. A sorrow that the Liverpool wasn't putting any more goals, since we had many occasions, and in addition, we had the Athletic ones in punches below the ribs behind a lot of time.

A sorrow that both Agger's auctions were not finishing in the net.

What more I like is that the Liverpool continues with many options. 

GO REDS!   :buttrock
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Postby Novo » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:49 pm

Atletico have a good team, the draw, not be a good result, don´t bring big problems for us. We have two more games to confirmate the first position, more problems we have last year.

In my opinion, in many games the name of Crouch appear in my mind, for example the game against Stoke. We don´t have striker like Crouch in games who the opponent defend with 11 players. About the creative striker, Babel, is bad option?
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Postby aCe' » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:50 pm

GYBS wrote:Ace- do something for me - go and watch the highlights or the games again - the spurs one and the one from last night and tell me how many goals we would of scored if the chances we had were taken by the players ? they would both of been resounding victories. We didnt loose because of any tactics or any subs - we lost because the players on the pitch didnt take those chances- poor finishing lost us the game on sat and poor finishing last night meant we only got one point from the game . The chances were there - plenty of them - far more than what both spurs and madrid had - we just didnt take them - thats not rafas fault or tactics thats the players fault. ignoreing gerrards chance we still had plenty of other glaring chances to score .

thats very debatable... read the past few pages in this very thread and ull see that half the people think that we failed to create any real clear cut opportunities to score besides the keane one-on-one with the goalie.. i share that view..
you think we had many 'glaring chances' and should have won it comfortably ...
im not saying ur wrong or im right or anything its just the way i saw it and i thought we were distinctly poor going forward and failed to create anything of mention... did we have chances to win the game?  yes maybe we did with the agger headers in particular but to say that we created anything near clear cut chances from our attacking play is outright strange in my books !
The tottenham game was a game we should have won... id understand if you say that we missed the chance of winning in that game because atleast we were 1-0 up and didnt need to be pushing forward and creating chances AS MUCH..we had decent possession and were firmly in control until we messed it up and lost conrol of the game for reasons apparently unknow or unacceptable to you !

i watched both games and have seen highlights of both and im still not convinced that we were unlucky or that we deserved to get something out of either game based on our performances... the tottneham game was a little better than the atletico game and maybe just maybe with a couple of better decision from -make no wrong- Rafa we could have gotten something out of that game but to say we deserved anything from the atletico game given the way we played and the way they defended our attacks with such ease and assurance is simply yet again...beyond me !
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Postby GYBS » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:54 pm

One person thought we didnt have chances to win the game - plenty of others think we did - look back and just on the madrid game i have highlighted the chances - the same ones that were highlighted last night in the itv highlights show - aggers two were glaring plus his header just over the bar . keanes when he was one on one and then the ball from xabi when he put it wide . then there was a number of last ditch tackles thats not even talking about the one from gerrard . so overall out finishing let us down badly over the last two games .

rafa took off players that werent taking those chances and brought on players that might of taken them - of course they didnt but hindsight is wonderful.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:23 pm

GYBS wrote:rafa took off players that werent taking those chances and brought on players that might of taken them - of course they didnt but hindsight is wonderful.

Don't agree. With the exception of Babel our bench and subsequent subs looked weak.

I think it is clear than although we may not be the weakest top4 team we do have the weakest squad of the top 4. Rafa needs to do some work in the January sale.

Last Nights Bench:

Lucas - don't know what he offers? Not much going forward, not much defensively. Nuisance factor at best.

Dossena - I will never get my head round replacing Riise with him?  ???

Ngog: Pre-season showed he had potential, but looked out of his depth and nervous last night. I actually would of preferred to see either El Zahr or Pacheco.

Benayoun: His offering is very specific. Mostly is involved in games we expect to win, rarely brought on as an impact player. Surely Pennant would of provided more considering the amount of time we spent crossing.
Last edited by SouthCoastShankly on Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby johnymarcu » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:06 pm

destro wrote:
johnymarcu wrote:gerard has dissapointed me.... Steven Gerrard, the saint, has spent his entire football career lecturing other football players on how to behave on the pitch, especially in regard to diving... look at him yesterday...

??? Would you like to explain exactly what he did wrong, he went for the ball got to it first and then there was contact and he went down, does that just about sum it up ?

Should Gerrard be held responsible for a player making a stupid challenge, like he said, outside the box that is a free kick every day of the week so why should it be any different inside the box.

Three things to consider

1) Should it have been a penalty = it was a foul so yeah

2) Did Gerrard use his experience and play for it = yeah I would say he probabley did

3) Would I complain if he did the same thing and got the same result in EVERY other game this season and it either won the game for us or got us a point = I wouldnt give a flying f'uck !!

look at the way he falls... and his face... great performance...

I didn't expected that from him, he is our captain, not an actor
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