Liverpool FC Forum

[Scottbot]

4-3-2-1 cannot be played without torres.  we have no other strikers with the ability to play in this system.

So we shouldn't have played that line-up away to Chelsea?

[puroresu]

4-3-2-1 cannot be played without torres.  we have no other strikers with the ability to play in this system.

So we shouldn't have played that line-up away to Chelsea?

Well it wasnt as if keane was very effective in that game either was it.  I wouldnt say he was pivotal to the result we got at chelsea at all.  Babel was better in the short time he played.

[Scottbot]

Well, I thought we were good value for the point. We had at least three clear chances to score (Agger 2, Gerrard 1). It wasn't an horrific performance, but I acknowledge that we're capable of much better.

First half we were particularly poor though; our passing was sloppy, we never really settled, and because of that not only did we not apply enough presure, we ended up going to sleep and conceding.

They then set up to defend their lead, and they did a very good job at it. We struggled to make a consistent threat given the level of possession we had, but of the chances we created, we probably should've scored one of them (esp Agger's second header). When teams set up like that i.e. defending deep and keeping their discipline, it's always difficult to find a way through, particularly for us though. One of the best ways to find a way through under these circumstances is from set pieces, but given our lack of an aerial threat, it meant our options were reduced to passing it in and around the box, i.e. through incisive passing and intelligent movement. That's hardly our forte as a side, and is one of the key reasons we struggled tonight, and why we generally do against park the bus opposition.

So, in and around the box, only on a couple of occasions did we produce that kind of incisive play we needed - once involving Arbeloa, Babel, Gerrard and Kuyt,  and the other involving Gerrard and Keane - which led to one of our best chances with his shot over the bar. BUT, Gerrard producing moment of magic on the edge of the box isn't enough, we need a consistent threat on that front.

Given the situation, I was surprised at the substitutions. That type of tactical scenario is EXACTLY the type of situation Babel fails miserably in; because his passing, first touch and movement are poor.

Equally, I thought taking off Keane - someone who can produce moments of incisive play - wasn't the correct move. The fact that he was taken off for Ngog - a player whose passing, control, first touch etc, is also highly questionable - was even more surprising (to put it bluntly, I don't think either Babel or Nggog are good enough long-term, and that's on the basis of having seen Babel over the past season, and Ngog from the brief spell tonight and against Villa where he was woeful).

I thought Benayoun would've been the most suitable player to come on, in place of Kuyt. At the very least he's far more intelligent than Babel and Ngog, but also Kuyt. He can conjure up a subtle movement,or pass every so often which can unlock tough defences. Lucas did next to nothing when he came on, but his introduction was neither here nor there.

that's a pretty good assessment of events in my book. One of the few I can be arsed to read to be honest.

Sometimes I think this forum is poluted with the biggest bunch of whinging c**nts i've ever known. How many White Van Driving Sunday Sport Readers do we have in here? I try and keep my opinions pretty balanced, argue my points, actually remain slightly objective and realistic and I come on here coz I like to talk/discuss football. BUT listening to opinions on this forum after a loss (and now it seems, a draw) is like reading the tabloids the morning after, hearing the bul..l.. headlines on SSN or hearing Steve Rider (a guy I respect) ask the analysts at ITV "just how important was that point to Liverpool's season?" like it had saved the season! have we all been conditioned into thinking like the headline grabbing idiots at Sky TV? It's all rosy rosy when we win a few and doom and gloom after a defeat. You look at teams like Spurs or Newcastle who go through managers like there going out of fashion and you think 'what are they doing!' but it's hardly surprising when the fans are twice as impatient. Robbie Keane it seems, is the new Kuyt around here but you can GUARANTEE if that chest down (from Alonso's long-pass) and snap-shot had crept inside the post half the posters slagging him would be kissing his as.s and bigging up other parts of his game tonight. That's how fine the line is between success and failure. And right now, believe it or not, for the most part, Liverpool FC is landing on the right side of it every game bar one. Although you wouldn't have fu..ck..in known it 

[Rush Job]

If Ronaldo had done that he never would have heard the end of it

What like he hasnt?

[duk]

bet my life Keane would have scored Ngog's chance (when Kuyts flick put him through)

poor sub in my book saw nothing from Ngog and saw no reason Keane should be subbed

[duk]

I can't help but think that Torres would have had about 4 goals tonight, had he played. The only thing we were missing was movement in the box and a finishing touch.

To say it was a poor performance not only detracts from the lads, but also from a very accomplished Athletico side IMHO.

For me it was a poor peformance. I can't pick out many players from tonight who had a good game. The passing was poor, and there was again way to many aimless long balls.

The past 2 games at anfield we've needed late penaltys to bail us out, and those are the only goals we've manged to score. The past few games have shown how much we are missing Torres, even if we have manged to pick up a couple of wins without him.

i disagree, some of our football was easy on the eye and good to watch, our finishing or lack of getting into finishing positions was our downfall

[heimdall]

I can't help but think that Torres would have had about 4 goals tonight, had he played. The only thing we were missing was movement in the box and a finishing touch.

To say it was a poor performance not only detracts from the lads, but also from a very accomplished Athletico side IMHO.

For me it was a poor peformance. I can't pick out many players from tonight who had a good game. The passing was poor, and there was again way to many aimless long balls.

The past 2 games at anfield we've needed late penaltys to bail us out, and those are the only goals we've manged to score. The past few games have shown how much we are missing Torres, even if we have manged to pick up a couple of wins without him.

i disagree, some of our football was easy on the eye and good to watch, our finishing or lack of getting into finishing positions was our downfall

I can think of only a few moments in that game where our football was easy on the eye. I'd go so far as to say that Atletico when they came forward looked a lot more exciting and inventive than we did.

Bottom line we all have different aspirations and expectations for how we want Liverpool to play, some people are happy to scrape a win or draw against bottom of the table teams at home whilst others look enviously at how the top teams in the league, over the last few years, destroy those same teams with proper dominance and imaginative attacking football.

I love the way all the rose tinted people resort to nasty and vulgar insults, instead of their ususal tired retoric when they have no proper arguments left and actually know in their soul that us "k%&ts" are right. 

[ruskiy playmaker]

I only hope that our football improves when Torres comes back and we go back to 442.  There's just no way that we're going to be champions, if the team continues to play this type of one dimensional football.

[IstanBuL-FenerBaHce]

oh!

you lucky b*stards!



atletico deserved points but, yeah, it's football sometimes.

enjoy the day dudes.

[shakey]

Over the 2 games i think we were by far the better team,out played them @ there place for 70mins & about the same @ Anfield.

[Owzat]

bet my life Keane would have scored Ngog's chance (when Kuyts flick put him through)

poor sub in my book saw nothing from Ngog and saw no reason Keane should be subbed

Keane did little except run around like a headless chicken, miss a glorious chance and look a tad sulky when subbed. N'Gog was disappointing, maybe if he'd had 18 games to miss a hatful of chances and score just twice then he'd be in better nick. But N'Gog didn't cost £20m, had a poor scoring record for PSG and while he did show poor touches, he showed one good touch and maybe with more playing time could miss chances just as much as any £20m striker

[Johnny Boy]

The bigger picture is we really need to win the group. if as I suspect most of our fellow English teams win their's as the groups stand we would get either : Inter, Juventus, Bayern Munich or Barcelona if we finish second.

I know we have beaten 3 of these teams before but we have to accept they will be very very tough.
Some years it makes no real difference but this year especially with the other English clubs leading their groups it could , with the exception perhaps of the Juve/Real Madrid group (these looking likely to finish 1st and 2nd) mean a much tougher task if we finish 2nd.

I would expect Atletico to beat PSV in Spain in the next match, we really need maximum points against Marseilles.

[Owzat]

To say it was a poor performance not only detracts from the lads, but also from a very accomplished Athletico side IMHO.

FIRST HALF - too many flicks, tricks and not enough control. No better demonstrated than Gerrard who had the whole of the right flank to aim at, backheeling the ball a few yards and out for a throw in trying to 'cleverly' play a fancy one two. The real clever pass was the percentage pass, forwards and spreading the play rather than congesting it. The goal was against the run of play, although Atletico posed a constant threat on the counter and made most of Aurelio pushing forward. I have to wonder if Carra was beaten because it wasn't on his natural side, maybe Agger might have done more as a left footer.

SECOND HALF - much better from us, more controlled and by the end we could have had several penalties. Gerrard employed too much a 'shoot on sight' policy, N'Gog and Kuyt also tried shots that were never likely to beat the keeper and so were wasteful.

CHANCES - Agger could have had a hat-trick. Headed badly wide when he should have scored, had one acrobatic effort straight at the keeper and was tugged when going for another which should have been a penalty. We could have had three penalties - that one, the one we got and the handball. Equally maybe the Spanish could have had two with the ball hitting Mascherano and Carragher on the hand in sliding tackles in the box. They blazed one chance over, I'd say we edged it on chances. Keane should really have scored one-on-one, a confident in-form striker would have done a Torres from the Euros and tried to lob the keeper. Going round the keeper at that angle would only have made the angle worse had he managed to get round him.

POSSESSION - we dominated that second half, unfortunately we can keep the ball without doing much with it - until late on. No better demonstration of our lack of cutting edge than late-ish in the game when from a throw level with the penalty area the ball ended up passed back into our own half.

SUBSTITUTIONS - very poor overall in my opinion. LM always seems to be a favourite to be subbed first, I'd have kept Babel back for a bit later - especially as he is used either wide or up front. Keane was an obvious substitution, N'Gog's played two games this season and that is my criticism of that substitution - not having played him more so he has more form.

And the last straw in terms of substitutions should have been the first straw - MASCHERANO. It was a home game, Alonso can tackle back and Mascherano was by-passed or largely redundant in the second half so not needed. Yet he was left until last to come off, it was so bleeding obvious that you take off a holding midfielder for a more attacking player when behind, at home and long before he was taken off. Even then Rafa brings on....................Lucas. Not Benayoun who may be less than convincing, but still more likely to score or create something than Lucas. Talk about (not even) half measures way too late. For those suggesting El Zhar could have come on - I don't believe he was on the bench (Cavalieri, Degen, Dossena and Benayoun making up the seven)


It's not the end of the world, but we are now two without a win and on our way to our usual one win in four from last season which broke up unbeaten runs and blew our title challenge. BUT good news, we've played WBA six times in the Premiership and they're the only side we have a 100% record against - not even conceding a goal in score 19 against them. Had we won last night we'd have been through and only the Carling Cup, if we consider it such, as a distraction until January. Hopefully Rafa will put out reserves in both domestic cups until we're in the semis or are knocked out. That said, I wouldn't want to lose twice to spudz in a short space of time. Hopefully they will save their players for the league

[Scottbot]

4-3-2-1 cannot be played without torres.  we have no other strikers with the ability to play in this system.

So we shouldn't have played that line-up away to Chelsea?

Well it wasnt as if keane was very effective in that game either was it.  I wouldnt say he was pivotal to the result we got at chelsea at all.  Babel was better in the short time he played.

But you still maintain that we C'ANT play 4-2-3-1 without Torres DESPITE the FACT we were the first team to win at Chelsea in nearly FIVE years. I deffo think we should play a different system there next season

[tonyeh]

I can't help but think that Torres would have had about 4 goals tonight, had he played. The only thing we were missing was movement in the box and a finishing touch.

To say it was a poor performance not only detracts from the lads, but also from a very accomplished Athletico side IMHO.

Ah, that's nonsense Lando.   

It wasn't the lack of "movement in the box" or a "finishing touch" that allowed AM to go 1 up. It was the extremely poor passing and the utter lack of ability to keep the ball that gave the Spanish the edge over Liverpool.

Liverpool's lack of finishing is very worrying, but as long as Liverpool KEEP handing the ball over to the opposition, they will continually lose the initiative in games and that should have red lights go off everywhere for the team.

Saying it was a poor performance is an HONEST evaluation of Liverpool's game last night. Saying it was anything other than that is blind. partisan rubbish of the lowest order.