Liverpool v marseille - Reaction to 0:1

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby AB's Red Army » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:38 pm

Smeg wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:"rafa upsetting the players by leaving them out when its clear that mash can do a better job than leto, lmao get real you idiot."

1. I'm interested to how is it that you know that players are upset leaving them out? It's a well known fact that Benitez uses a rotation system, this was pointed out to the players when we signed them and those who were there before Benitez arrived.

2. What does Mascherano have to do with Sebastian Leto? Mascherano is a holding midfielder, Leto is a winger. I fail to see what the correspondence between the two is.

Mascherano has been poor since he's come back from the International break.

I take it you're speaking from experience A.B.?

No?

Didn't think so.

Experience of playing at even the lowest levels of the game can help you learn things. For a start...

At the start of this season, my sunday league team manager told me I wouldn't play every game this season as he's going to rotate the squad, we have 18 regulars.

We started the season with a 3-1 loss. We were awful. We then won 6 games on the bounce with our lowest victory being a 4-1 win. We beat top of the league, third and bottom in the period. Myself scoring 4 goals.

You then come to the seventh game and your manager says, right, these aren't the best team in the league, we're going to give one of the other lads a game today... straight away you're :censored: off at being left out for an inferior player. I can tell you now, last week I felt like packing in playing when he said that... but I could live with it if they go out and win, I was just hoping the text would come to say we won.

What really grates players and fans is when they don't win.

We drew 1-1. I was left out after scoring 4 in 6 and 3 man of the matches for a player who was weak and not suited to the type of game. When I got the text, I was absoloutely :censored: livid. It really :censored: me off to be quite honest that I'd been left out, especially after a decent run of form for both myself and the team.

Can you imagine how these players feel when this happens professionally? I'd go absoloutely mental myself if i'd scored a hatrick, took the :censored: then was on the bench the next game for someone who isn't half the player, the fact that we then don't win would probably drive me insane.

These lads are human, they have human emotions no matter how much they get paid. Its demoralising when things like that happen. Ask anyone with any experience what so ever.

Fair points raised, no argument there.

My point though Stu is that the majority of these players should be accustomed to this by now. Most of them have been playing under Benitez for more than one season to understand how the system works.

Would I be upset if I were in your situation for example? Sure I would. It's only human as you pointed out.

At the same time you have someone like Peter Crouch, who was a fking nobody a couple of seasons ago playing for Southampton and Portsmouth. Benitez brought him in to all of our amusment, sticked by him through the roughest patches and proved to be useful in certain of our games.

Now here we are two seasons later and he's having a dig at Rafa's rotation at every opportune moment it seems.

Personally I think this is down to his ego. I think the ''success'' he had with England has gone to his head, and now he believes that he's better than he really is. He now believes that he should play in every game, when in reality he should be grateful to even be on a Liverpool bench.

I understand if the new players get upset with the rotation [although it would surprise me if the manager didn't explain this to them before they were signed] but I would find it strange for players who have been here for a while to feel that disappointed regarding being left out.

At the end of the season the vast majority play a fair number of games.

Perhaps because I haven't been in a similar position even in a sunday league as you have, my understanding of this particular issue is biased if you will.

I don't know really.

In regards to rotation, I think there are some faults to it like there are with most things. However I personally don't put the blame alone on rotation and Benitez.

Not to say that they aren't part of it, but I've really been disappointed with the lack of effort that we as a team have put in the last several games.
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Postby LFC2007 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:12 pm

josip84 wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
josip84 wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Because all the mard-a*ses want the league, so the bloke has to push the biggest competition in club football firmly into second place, otherwise the strategically-shaved chimps who call themselves Liverpool fans will throw up in arms and cry like cissy-girls.

If my memory doesn't fail me, I think i can remember some harsh disagreement between what I once said and what Lando Griffin thought at one time in the past. Maybe he will remember.
Today I feel all the more  comfortable to say that IMHO Lando Griffin is right when he says that THE major competition in European football is the Champions'League. The Premiership can't compare.
That's why choosing to regard the Premiership title as the main objective, and therefore putting the CL in second place, is sheer nonsense, a huge mistake.

LFC is world famous.
Why?
Do you think people all over the world know the name of LFC because you beat Porstmouth or Wigan in just any ordinary Premiership game? Or rather because you beat Milan AC in a breathtaking CL final?

How much do your home titles weigh, compared to your 5 European Champions'Competition victories?

Privileging the Premiership at the cost of the major European competition is irrelevant and absurd.
As a consequence, priveleging your next game against the Spurs to the detriment of the game against Marseille proved a terrible mistake. The price to pay  for this mistake may be much higher than you thought.

This is one of the most absurd and out of touch posts I have ever read on this forum.

Criticism without arguments counts for nothing.
Can you see a single argument in LFC's reply to my post? I can't.

The thing you don't seem to realise is : Liverpool FC needs the Champions League much more than the Champions League needs Liverpool FC.
When you have a prestigious competition involving Real Madrid, Barcelona, Ajax, Milan AC, Inter Milan, Bayern, Juventus, Benfica etc., all of them being highly committed to winning every game, you can easily do without LFC. The absence of LFC is one of the things you can get over.

So if some of you, as seems to be the case, think the CL is a second-rate objective way behind the Premiership, why don't you simply withdraw from the European Competition? Why don't you save your energy to concentrate on what comes first in your mind?

Why were you LFC fans so massively present in Istanbul in 2005 and in the 2007 final? Why are you so (legitimately) proud of your 5 european CL victories?

I'm highly interested in your possible answers.

TBH Josip my little French friend, a response to your post required little argument, what you wrote was cretinous and shows you know absolutely nothing about LFC. To this post I will say:

After 17 years of not winning the league title, and a recent spate of european successes, it makes perfect sense that our main objective and priority is the Premier league.

The league is the bread and butter for every club, if you win the league it solidifies you as one of Europe's best teams. It has, and always will be LFC's number one priority for the foreseeable future.

The order of priorities is clear, League, UCL, FA cup, League cup.

The league MUST be the priority, if you perform sh!t in your league, you may not qualify for the UCL.

Not many clubs will prioritise the UCL ahead of their league championship.

League form is a test of consistency, and a real gauge of who Europe's best teams are, but not necessarily at playing a European style of football.

Europe is very important for us, at this moment in time, predominantly for financial reasons rather than success.

To ask whether we should withdraw from the competition, again, shows what a complete and utter muppet you are. I suppose we should also withdraw from the FA cup and league cup also?

LFC has a massive support, that's why we had such a great turnout in Istanbul and Athens, that will always be the case.

You say prioritising the league ahead of the UCL is a huge mistake, suggesting that the Premier League can't compare?

I suppose that's why it's THE most watched and followed league in the world.

LFC is world famous for a number of different reasons, one of those reasons is because we're the most successful club in England of all time, what was this success founded upon? Our league successes, and subsequent European ventures.


Privileging the Premiership at the cost of the major European competition is irrelevant and absurd.
As a consequence, priveleging your next game against the Spurs to the detriment of the game against Marseille proved a terrible mistake. The price to pay  for this mistake may be much higher than you thought



This part sums up what a numpty you are.
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Postby josip84 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:41 pm

Being called "numpty" by someone like you could undoubtedly constitute a perfect definition for the rather complex notion of "paradoxical irony".  :D
As for the content (so to speak) of your post, let's wait till Liverpool manage to  drag themselves (or don't) out of the group phase in the CL.
If they don't qualify  for the next phase, then you will perhaps understand what "huge mistake" and "price to pay" meant.
But when I say "understand", I do know, my English little friend, that you can't be expected to do the impossible.  :cool:
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Postby LFC2007 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:44 pm

josip84 wrote:Being called "numpty" by someone like you could undoubtedly constitute a perfect definition for the rather complex notion of "paradoxical irony".  :D
As for the content (so to speak) of your post, let's wait till Liverpool manage to  drag themselves (or don't) out of the group phase in the CL.
If they don't qualify  for the next phase, then you will perhaps understand what "huge mistake" meant.
But when I say "understand", I do know, my English little friend, that you can't be expected to do the impossible.  :cool:

Funny how you have no answer to the content of the post, condemning yourself to the realm of Sam the eagle.

You know nothing about LFC, you've shown that in the past, and you've shown it again, in this thread.

Off you hop.
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Postby bunglemark2 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:50 pm

LFC2007 : the guy is just throwing a fishing line and you're biting every time.....
As I tell my 6 year old when she's irritated by an annoying person/insect - just ignore it and it will go away......
Obviously head-the-ball has little else to do but wind you - and others - up and you're letting him do it.
Just ignore him, and he might find some other game to play....
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Postby AB's Red Army » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:51 pm

Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't. So it gets more attention, I know that as I've lived in different parts of the world.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.

Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:55 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't. So it gets more attention, I know that as I've lived in different parts of the world.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.

Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

But the same fans need to realise that we don't own the rights to the League, and the dribbling insistance that Rafa's success will purely be measured on his league positions is narrow-minded and quite insulting.

The scum want the Champions' League more thna anything, and we've consistently bettered them in that department every season Rafa's been in charge.
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Postby LFC2007 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:00 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.

Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

Two points:

1) The qualification system, up until the re-branding of the competition in 1992, required that you win your domestic league in order to enter the competition. Our league success spawned our European success, the foundation for our worldwide recognition was therefore our league/domestic success.

2) In the short term winning the UCL may be more enterprising and more glamorous, however ,winning the league and consistently challenging in the league is a long term strategy that ensures worldwide recognition. The two are related, but the foundation for success always remains in the league (for us).
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:02 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.

Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

Two points:

1) The qualification system, up until the re-branding of the competition in 1992, required that you win your domestic league in order to enter the competition. Our league success spawned our European success, the foundation for our worldwide recognition was therefore our league/domestic success.

2) In the short term winning the UCL may be more enterprising and more glamorous, however ,winning the league and consistently challenging in the league is a long term strategy that ensures worldwide recognition. The two are related, but the foundation for success always remains in the league (for us).

Very true.
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Postby LFC2007 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:03 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:LFC2007 : the guy is just throwing a fishing line and you're biting every time.....
As I tell my 6 year old when she's irritated by an annoying person/insect - just ignore it and it will go away......
Obviously head-the-ball has little else to do but wind you - and others - up and you're letting him do it.
Just ignore him, and he might find some other game to play....

This guy (Josip) genuinely believes he knows what our priorities should be, in truth, he knows feck all. I'll leave it at that.
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Postby AB's Red Army » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:04 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.

Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

Two points:

1) The qualification system, up until the re-branding of the competition in 1992, required that you win your domestic league in order to enter the competition. Our league success spawned our European success, the foundation for our worldwide recognition was therefore our league/domestic success.

2) In the short term winning the UCL may be more enterprising and more glamorous, however ,winning the league and consistently challenging in the league is a long term strategy that ensures worldwide recognition. The two are related, but the foundation for success always remains in the league (for us).

True on both accounts.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:10 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.

Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

Two points:

1) The qualification system, up until the re-branding of the competition in 1992, required that you win your domestic league in order to enter the competition. Our league success spawned our European success, the foundation for our worldwide recognition was therefore our league/domestic success.

2) In the short term winning the UCL may be more enterprising and more glamorous, however ,winning the league and consistently challenging in the league is a long term strategy that ensures worldwide recognition. The two are related, but the foundation for success always remains in the league (for us).

wonders will never ease, i actually agree with you here      :D
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Postby josip84 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:12 pm

AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't. So it gets more attention, I know that as I've lived in different parts of the world.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.
Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

Now you're talking. YOU, for one,  understood what I meant. Let me repeat this once again : in terms of TV coverage, the CL is high above any other competition. The Premier League can't compare. 

As for the second part of your post, that's exactly where the "huge mistake" lies. Your rivalry with MU is blurring your judgement. Forget about Man'U. Your true rivals are Madrid, Barcelona, Milan, Inter, Bayern.
When you are LFC, you don't compete with dwarves. Your destiny is to compete with giants.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:18 pm

josip84 wrote:
AB's Red Army wrote:Winning a European Cup does put the club on the map more than winning the domestic league.

The European Cup final is broadcasted to most countries in the world, where as the Premier League isn't. So it gets more attention, I know that as I've lived in different parts of the world.

With that being said, every Liverpool fan wants the League title more than the European Cup now.
Because we would all hate it if United got closer or god forbid over take us in that department.

Now you're talking. YOU, for one,  understood what I meant. Let me repeat this once again : in terms of TV coverage, the CL is high above any other competition. The Premier League can't compare. 

As for the second part of your post, that's exactly where the "huge mistake" lies. Your rivalry with MU is blurring your judgement. Forget about Man'U. Your true rivals are Madrid, Barcelona, Milan, Inter, Bayern.
When you are LFC, you don't compete with dwarves. Your destiny is to compete with giants.

Thanks for that lesson.

But we have reached two CL finals in three years, so perhaps you need to go on a Madrid, Barcelona, Inter, Ajax and Juve forum to tell them, they need to compete with us.

We'll get through the KO stages of CL, its you who should be watching over your shoulder, so dont count all your chickens before they've hatched, as you've only just one your first away game of the CL since 1999 I believe, yes to a poor Liverpool side, we'll give you that. 

Au revoir
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Postby Sabre » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:24 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:LFC2007 : the guy is just throwing a fishing line and you're biting every time.....
As I tell my 6 year old when she's irritated by an annoying person/insect - just ignore it and it will go away......
Obviously head-the-ball has little else to do but wind you - and others - up and you're letting him do it.
Just ignore him, and he might find some other game to play....

This guy (Josip) genuinely believes he knows what our priorities should be, in truth, he knows feck all. I'll leave it at that.

He talks from a continental view, and he's wrong, because he forgets that the priority of a club, by definition, it's to keep their supporters happy, and if the Liverpool supporters preffer the league, then that's sacred.

Winning the CL is great, and indirectly also helps to win the league, because it gives you reputation in Europe and thus, the best players around want to join you.

But we've been there already, Liverpool has RETURNED to the peak of European clubs, and that mountain is climbed. So my logic pushes me to wish the league now, the regularity title. The bread and butter.
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