Liverpool FC Forum

[mungi]

Rafa has turned the team into a bunch of fuctioning robots who know hat their jobs is and stick to it. its all very precise. its very tatical. wenger on the other hand trains the players to focus more on technique, passing and movement. rafa coaches them to be at this place and to work this channel. (basically a counter attack team) etc. as a true liverpool fan its very hard to watch lliverpool when u compare them to the likes of arsenal.

[112-1077774096]

Rafa has turned the team into a bunch of fuctioning robots who know hat their jobs is and stick to it. its all very precise. its very tatical. wenger on the other hand trains the players to focus more on technique, passing and movement. rafa coaches them to be at this place and to work this channel. (basically a counter attack team) etc. as a true liverpool fan its very hard to watch lliverpool when u compare them to the likes of arsenal.

yes mungi, we are definitely not playing the beautiful game, i was watching youtube a couple of days ago watching some games from the barnes era, we were an awesome team and fantastic to watch. sadly i can't say that anymore. i know some people say the result is more important and i agree to an extent, the points are important, but we are not even getting the points so it's a moot argument

[mungi]

but i still think u can win games and play good. IMHO arsenal and man u are ahead of us in terms of attractiveness, with arsenal being the best team to watch in the EPL. i think that the owenrs need to sit down with rafa and say 'you dont have to win all the trophies this season, just win 1 and play with style'. this could make rafa relax a bit and he could start to send teams out with the intention of playing some football without the pressure of results

[Ace Ventura]

that is it exactly.  some of us watch arsenal play and wonder why there passing in movement looks way better than ours.  you can not blame livepool fans for getting frustrated at this.  anyone who sez they wouldnt wanna play like arsenal do is lying.

I if its me your referring to said i preferred seeing the blood sweat and effort from our lads to the passing of Arsenal in that game.
It made it a great spectacle, if we played football like Arsenal do then yes i would like it and enjoy watching it. But i also really enjoyed watching the effort and determination of our players.

mate if you just want to watch effort an determination go and watch rugby league or a division 2 side, you will see plenty. however if you want to watch attractive football (coupled with effort) watch arsenal, they do both mate, to suggest that a team can not play attractive football and shed blood and sweat is wrong.

I can't believe now people are happy that we are just a team that put lots of effort in for one game, we may as well sell all our expensive players, make momo captain and spend a couple of million on a few cloggers who can run around all day, then you will be happy watching all the effort   

peewee read Scotts post thats on this page, it pretty much says it all.
With some of your comments in the post i have quoted you are in danger of doing the....lets exagerate someone's post to try and strengthen my argument.
Its not all about effort mate, Gerrard did more than just get tackles in and work hard, he was the most dangerous player on the pitch...despite the papers talking mostly about Fabregas after the match (who admittedly was also brilliant).
You can work hard and play football, of course. But we pretty much had the better of most of the 50-50's and that side of the game we proved the players have the fight in them, they wanted a win and unfortunately it wasnt to be. But it was a major improvment imo, and considering alot of our fans were saying we could get hammered, we never. There are different ways of winning a football match,we tried soaking up the pressure and allowing them the ball, inevitably they would create some chances but we looked just as dangerous and just as likely to get a second as they were to the equaliser until the injuries took there toll.
I think there was more positives to come out of the game (performance wise) than negatives.

[112-1077774096]

that is it exactly.  some of us watch arsenal play and wonder why there passing in movement looks way better than ours.  you can not blame livepool fans for getting frustrated at this.  anyone who sez they wouldnt wanna play like arsenal do is lying.

I if its me your referring to said i preferred seeing the blood sweat and effort from our lads to the passing of Arsenal in that game.
It made it a great spectacle, if we played football like Arsenal do then yes i would like it and enjoy watching it. But i also really enjoyed watching the effort and determination of our players.

mate if you just want to watch effort an determination go and watch rugby league or a division 2 side, you will see plenty. however if you want to watch attractive football (coupled with effort) watch arsenal, they do both mate, to suggest that a team can not play attractive football and shed blood and sweat is wrong.

I can't believe now people are happy that we are just a team that put lots of effort in for one game, we may as well sell all our expensive players, make momo captain and spend a couple of million on a few cloggers who can run around all day, then you will be happy watching all the effort   

peewee read Scotts post thats on this page, it pretty much says it all.
With some of your comments in the post i have quoted you are in danger of doing the....lets exagerate someone's post to try and strengthen my argument.
Its not all about effort mate, Gerrard did more than just get tackles in and work hard, he was the most dangerous player on the pitch...despite the papers talking mostly about Fabregas after the match (who admittedly was also brilliant).
You can work hard and play football, of course. But we pretty much had the better of most of the 50-50's and that side of the game we proved the players have the fight in them, they wanted a win and unfortunately it wasnt to be. But it was a major improvment imo, and considering alot of our fans were saying we could get hammered, we never. There are different ways of winning a football match,we tried soaking up the pressure and allowing them the ball, inevitably they would create some chances but we looked just as dangerous and just as likely to get a second as they were to the equaliser until the injuries took there toll.
I think there was more positives to come out of the game (performance wise) than negatives.

i know i exaggerated it ace, that was just to make a point and not an attack on you, i did select certain parts while ignoring others. sorry

[Ace Ventura]

i know i exaggerated it ace, that was just to make a point and not an attack on you, i did select certain parts while ignoring others. sorry

Ok mate fair enough.

I just have a couple of questions for you though....

1) What did you want or expect before the game, performance wise and end result.

2) Do you think that what we seen was an improvement in any way compared with recent results and performances ?


Tbh i think you will have higher expectations than the average fan (which as a lfc supporter there is nothing wrong that) but what we need is a bit of perspective on where we were at before the game, how we were performing and how they were performing. Confidence etc. If you look at those issues i think personally it was a big improvement and cause for renewed optimism. Lets hope they can carry the same attitude and determination onto Ewood park on Saturday.

[112-1077774096]

i know i exaggerated it ace, that was just to make a point and not an attack on you, i did select certain parts while ignoring others. sorry

Ok mate fair enough.

I just have a couple of questions for you though....

1) What did you want or expect before the game, performance wise and end result.

2) Do you think that what we seen was an improvement in any way compared with recent results and performances ?


Tbh i think you will have higher expectations than the average fan (which as a lfc supporter there is nothing wrong that) but what we need is a bit of perspective on where we were at before the game, how we were performing and how they were performing. Confidence etc. If you look at those issues i think personally it was a big improvement and cause for renewed optimism. Lets hope they can carry the same attitude and determination onto Ewood park on Saturday.

i said earlier mate i was happy with the outcome and happier than i have been with the performance, i thought we would lose this game and not even be in it, i expected the same negative stance. we set up as an attacking unit and never really stuck to it which was a shame as i think if we had we could have kept arsenal on the back foot, once torres went we needed an injection of pace on the and feel kuyt should have been changed for babel. once we never made that decision arsenal always had more freedom to push on, we saw a few times gallas on the edge of our box.

i want to be optimistic but i know unless rafa changes his stance my optimism will be wasted ace

[bigmick]

Of all the teams to play against when you aren't really firing, arsenal are the ones which will make you look the worst and it's no real surprise that at times we were chasing shadows on Sunday. Watch them at the weekend and Man Utd will be chasing shadows as well, but football is not just about keep-ball and pretty patterns so I wouldn't be too concerned about that aspect of the game last weekend. I've said a couple of times already that I think Man Utd will push their fullbacks in a bit to compress the midfield, take a punt on Ferdinand and Vidic being able to handle Adebayor between them and despite having to chase the ball, I think they'll beat Arsenal at the weekend.

Like I say, there was no surprise about the ease of their football on the eye. In the teamtalks rafa will certainly have been drumming into the players that they were going to spend a lot of the time without the ball, none of them will have been surprised and nor should we be.

There's no doubt either that we stuck to our task well and showed bags of heart. Having said that, it's a lot easier to do when you are one up and hanging on for a decisive win. Had we have conceded first and had to chase the game for eighty minutes, I have a strong feeling we might have been on the end of a morale and energy sapping defeat but that's not the point, we weren't and we're not.

If we can continue to show the fight and passion we showed against arsenal, then we amy be able to eke out a result at Blackburn. If we were to got here and win (which would be a huge result with our depleted ranks in my opinion), then we have a couple of winnable games to follow and we might just be able to stay in there until the big guns come back. It wasn't all bad on Sunday, much of what we saw from our team was good. We learnt things, and the fact that Arsenal are a very good team was by no means the most amazing thing we learnt.

[66-1112520797]

As for the grief Voronin and Kuyt are getting (they seem to be numero 1 and 2 scapegoats at the moment) how can anyone slate those two and in the same sentence hold up Babel as some sort of saviour or obvious replacement? He's hardly set the world on fire so far has he? In fact he's done very little, no more or less than the other two lads i'd say.

Thats exactly the kind of pi.ss poor argument that makes people on here who ALWAYS claim to know what Rafa should have done dbefore during and after EVERY match laughable.

Anyone who wants to put up their managerial achievements and prove me wrong but I dare say Rafa might be better qualified.

Not at all Leon, or Scott for that matter, Dirk has hardly set alight the Prem in ALL his appearances this season. Voronin looks a carbon copy of Kuyt. All work and no product, while Babel hasnt "set the World alight" its obvious Rafa opts for a grafter over a direct/quick player.

Why play both ? There more or less the same at least Having Babel as a replacement for one of them, would mix things up a little and over time would surely present a much better goal threat.

Anyone who wants to put up their managerial achievements and prove me wrong but I dare say Rafa might be better qualified.

On a slightly lighter note, I did manage a brothel once, and that was some achievement. And sufice to say Kuyt wouldnt even score in there with a fist full of fifties. 

[poolboyuk]

I agree - playing Kuyt & Voronin makes no sense at all. Babel may not have set the world on fire yet but at least you know he may. Kuyt & Voronin are virtually the same - Voronin is a bit quicker and a bit more nimble but every bit as predictable as Kuyt.

Why in recent games has not only Torres been benched but the only other players with pace as well (Babel & Pennant) Any wonder we struggled to score?

Why in the absence of Torres has Babel not been given a go upfront - hes quick as, strong with a good shot.

Why was Crouch been left on the bench - he murdered Arsenal last year and again gives us something different.

I have a lot of respect for Rafa and what he's done and theres really not that much wrong with the team but he is at time worringly sounding and acting like Houllier in his last days at Anfield

http://footballfocusonline.blogspot.com/

[Scottbot]

Not at all Leon, or Scott for that matter, Dirk has hardly set alight the Prem in ALL his appearances this season. Voronin looks a carbon copy of Kuyt. All work and no product, while Babel hasnt "set the World alight" its obvious Rafa opts for a grafter over a direct/quick player.

Why play both ? There more or less the same at least Having Babel as a replacement for one of them, would mix things up a little and over time would surely present a much better goal threat.

I agree mate, i'm not a big fan of either Kuyt or Voronin to be honest and i would also give Babel a runout but that wasn't the point i was trying to make. I get wound up when so many posters berate one player (in this case two) and then scream for another as if that would have made all the difference. It amazes me how much better a player gets when he's injured or not getting picked. Just look at Crouch, he took a s.h..i..t load of criticism on here a little while back, he doesn't play for a few games and suddenly now he has more backers than knockers. Another example is Danny Agger, he's a good player, i like him but 4 weeks out injured and the guy is apparently World Class now, he's getting better by the game and he hasn't even played, and now we've got another 3 page (and couting) spread on 'why Sami must go' and that old chestnut 'he's lost a step'. Fook knows why? We're struggling at the moment coz we can't score goals, although i even read a few idiots claiming a lot of that was down to Agger's absence so maybe it is Hyppia's fault? There's a lot of good posters on this board and i love the debate with most of these guys/gals BUT there's so much toss being written by so many posters at the moment and it's depressing