Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

But, didn't you lot want to be like Valencia?

Valencia did a great match in Anfield quite simply because our pressure back then was not good enough. If you press well, no-one moves the ball like they did. Valencia were masters in sitting deep, waiting teams like Arsenal dominate, and then fúck them in two counters. Which is what we tried to do.

I disagree LFC2007, I don't think we were outplayed in the first half, not in possession (60-40 for us) and not in real danger. Obviously we got a goal and they had to take more risks than us. I think we lost the game in the substitutions, in which admittely, Wenger was spot on. But outplayed? not until the end, and it was our fault.

Rafas Y fronts mentions

Tactically everything was spot on until we got caught out by a goal that wrongfooted our keeper because it was such a quickly executed toe-poke.

Yes, I don't know up there mate, but toe-pokes, hitting it with the front point of the boot is laughed by the typical idiots, but it's in fact, as you say, a valid option and probably the fastest way to make a shoot. Despite a keeper's first law is to cover the first post, I think it was a great, quick and clever option from Fabregas.

[LFC2007]

I disagree LFC2007, I don't think we were outplayed in the first half, not in possession (60-40 for us) and not in real danger. Obviously we got a goal and they had to take more risks than us. I think we lost the game in the substitutions, in which admittely, Wenger was spot on. But outplayed? not until the end, and it was our fault.

   

In the first half, other than the goal, all of our work came from within our own half. Arsenal pressed with a high intensity all the time. Kuyt and Voronin are not nimble with the ball, they couldn't retain possession under such intense pressure. This was partly down to Torres being injured, partly down to Arsenal's high intensity, and partly down to their sheer inability to manipulate a football.

The difference with Valencia, is that they had players who were nimble on the ball in the final third, who were agile, and who could turn on a sixpence. They could find an outlet quickly before being pressed into submission, we failed to do this in the first half especially.

I'm not entirely certain what the possession stat's showed Sabre, but Arsenal were by far the more creative, and sliced us open too many times throughout the match. The odd misplaced final ball let us off the hook on a couple of occasions, Toure if I remember correctly could have been in on goal but for an overhit pass. We were static at times, too often.

In the first half, we were outplayed in terms of meaningful possession, there is no doubt at about that in my view.

[Sabre]

I disagree LFC2007, I don't think we were outplayed in the first half, not in possession (60-40 for us) and not in real danger. Obviously we got a goal and they had to take more risks than us. I think we lost the game in the substitutions, in which admittely, Wenger was spot on. But outplayed? not until the end, and it was our fault.

   

In the first half, other than the goal, all of our work came from within our own half. Arsenal pressed with a high intensity all the time. Kuyt and Voronin are not nimble with the ball, they couldn't retain possession under such intense pressure. This was partly down to Torres being injured, partly down to Arsenal's high intensity, and partly down to their sheer inability to manipulate a football.

The difference with Valencia, is that they had players who were nimble on the ball in the final third, who were agile, and who could turn on a sixpence. They could find an outlet quickly before being pressed into submission, we failed to do this in the first half especially.

I'm not entirely certain what the possession stat's showed Sabre, but Arsenal were by far the more creative, and sliced us open too many times throughout the match. The odd misplaced final ball let us off the hook on a couple of occasions, Toure if I remember correctly could have been in on goal but for an overhit pass. We were static at times, too often.

In the first half, we were outplayed in terms of meaningful possession, there is no doubt at about that in my view.

Possibly, mate, possibly, it's a matter of perception. Anyway in this kind of games my definite opinion is when I see the game twice, as the first one is too dominated by emotion and all that.

There are different kinds of depressions a fan can have. The depression I have after the game yesterday was not the "they were better" depression, but rather the "if we would have done better we could have won and shut up Andy Gray's mouth" kind of depression.

I need to go to the doctor, my optimism and happyclappyness is genuine, and I feel uncomfortable and rare with this football depression, that both the defeat and the injuries provoked, especially the latter 

[Wilhelmsson]

I’m of the opinion that Rafa set out a rather conservative side, with the intentions of pressing out Arsenal’s attack and counter attacking them when Arsenal came forth. It worked until the team pushed up a bit too much was caught on the break by a superb Arsenal move.

Injuries did hit and it would IMO have been wiser to bring Babel on instead of bringing on Arbeloa with the sole intention of shutting up shop and holding onto a 1-0 score line until the final whistle.

Even if Reina had put the ball behind the post, I would have still bought up the fact that Arsenal forced the team to play rather conservative football.

It’s ashame that the team never tested Arsenal bypressing them and preventing them from playing, the complexion of the match and the result of the match could gotten the team a much needed three points, still I can’t complain with one point.

Explain.

I shall make two points; each point is responding accordingly to the two individual parts of my post that you highlighted, I hope there is no confusion on your part.

1) IMO it’s negative to spend all much sitting back, allowing a team to attack, withstanding that attack and then getting a few breaks and scoring. I would like to see a hard hitting (quite literally) high tempo, attacking flow match from the team, instead of playing conservative football like minnows.

Fight fire with fire I say, never mind this cat and mouse football, there was a chance to take three points yesterday evening and make a statement of intent, instead the players did neither and the manager set the team up rather negatively IMO.

Maybe such a move highlights the fact that the team is still intimidated by Arsenal, Chelsea and MU in the league? Who knows, but Arsenal are prone to leaking goals and the team did not exploit this weakness, instead they played boring, conservative football in the vain hope of snatching an undeserved 1-0 win.

2) I think point backs up this point too, the team gave Arsenal too much respect, I was hoping Mash would do a Vinnie Jones bone breaking tackle on Cesc to put him off his tried, but then I’ve been watching too much Rugby Union, a proper man’s game

[LFC2007]

I’m of the opinion that Rafa set out a rather conservative side, with the intentions of pressing out Arsenal’s attack and counter attacking them when Arsenal came forth. It worked until the team pushed up a bit too much was caught on the break by a superb Arsenal move.

Injuries did hit and it would IMO have been wiser to bring Babel on instead of bringing on Arbeloa with the sole intention of shutting up shop and holding onto a 1-0 score line until the final whistle.

Even if Reina had put the ball behind the post, I would have still bought up the fact that Arsenal forced the team to play rather conservative football.

It’s ashame that the team never tested Arsenal bypressing them and preventing them from playing, the complexion of the match and the result of the match could gotten the team a much needed three points, still I can’t complain with one point.

Explain.

I shall make two points; each point is responding accordingly to the two individual parts of my post that you highlighted, I hope there is no confusion on your part.

1) IMO it’s negative to spend all much sitting back, allowing a team to attack, withstanding that attack and then getting a few breaks and scoring. I would like to see a hard hitting (quite literally) high tempo, attacking flow match from the team, instead of playing conservative football like minnows.

Fight fire with fire I say, never mind this cat and mouse football, there was a chance to take three points yesterday evening and make a statement of intent, instead the players did neither and the manager set the team up rather negatively IMO.

Maybe such a move highlights the fact that the team is still intimidated by Arsenal, Chelsea and MU in the league? Who knows, but Arsenal are prone to leaking goals and the team did not exploit this weakness, instead they played boring, conservative football in the vain hope of snatching an undeserved 1-0 win.

2) I think point backs up this point too, the team gave Arsenal too much respect, I was hoping Mash would do a Vinnie Jones bone breaking tackle on Cesc to put him off his tried, but then I’ve been watching too much Rugby Union, a proper man’s game

1) It sounds nice in theory, the reality is, we didn't have the players to press high up. Our defence lacks pace. I can't even begin to fathom what may have happened had our defence played a high line against Arsenal, we don't have a pacey defence it's as simple as that.

Playing a deep line, and pushing up our midfield, would also have served as an invitation for Arsenal to completely wipe the floor with us. Exposing our defence to their quick witted attacking play would have been murder.

The idea from the beginning, and the tactical setup was fundamentally correct, and all we could realistically have got away with, especially given Arsenal's current form.

Without pace and guile in our attack, we were never going to be able to attack Arsenal with the gut flair you are suggesting, and without sufficient pace at the back, we were never going to be able to play a high line from which to mount these attacks.

2) Too much Pimms.

[Rafas-Y-Fronts]

For us to play the same flowing football that Arsenal play.....Jamie Carragher will have to be sold.

The only two defenders capable of playing in that kind of system on our books at the moment are Steve Finnan and Daniel Agger who are both excellent on the ball.

[puroresu]

For us to play the same flowing football that Arsenal play.....Jamie Carragher will have to be sold.

The only two defenders capable of playing in that kind of system on our books at the moment are Steve Finnan and Daniel Agger who are both excellent on the ball.

Its a sad thing to say we dont have 4 defenders who can play with the ball.  But Rafa doesnt think this skills are vital as he seems to like defenders just launching it 70 yards up the field.

Is Rafa trying to create the most expensive long ball team in europe as that what it seems like.

[Sabre]

For us to play the same flowing football that Arsenal play.....Jamie Carragher will have to be sold.

The only two defenders capable of playing in that kind of system on our books at the moment are Steve Finnan and Daniel Agger who are both excellent on the ball.

Its a sad thing to say we dont have 4 defenders who can play with the ball.  But Rafa doesnt think this skills are vital as he seems to like defenders just launching it 70 yards up the field.

Is Rafa trying to create the most expensive long ball team in europe as that what it seems like.

But Puroresu, if that was true, Rafa wouldn't have chosen Agger as first option to be our future CB, he could have opted to buy a strong and decent English CB (which IMHO are better than the standard in the Spanish Liga).

[puroresu]

For us to play the same flowing football that Arsenal play.....Jamie Carragher will have to be sold.

The only two defenders capable of playing in that kind of system on our books at the moment are Steve Finnan and Daniel Agger who are both excellent on the ball.

Its a sad thing to say we dont have 4 defenders who can play with the ball.  But Rafa doesnt think this skills are vital as he seems to like defenders just launching it 70 yards up the field.

Is Rafa trying to create the most expensive long ball team in europe as that what it seems like.

But Puroresu, if that was true, Rafa wouldn't have chosen Agger as first option to be our future CB, he could have opted to buy a strong and decent English CB (which IMHO are better than the standard in the Spanish Liga).

So please explain to me why we play so much direct long ball football.  It happens so often I cant believe they are doing it off there own back as surely the manager would tell them to stop. 

If the boss wanted the team to build from the back then I'm sure the players would try.  The fact that an arsenal back 4 totally chnged there play when wenger went there (same players) tells u that players can do new things when asked. 

Rafa seems to have no problem with the keeper and defenders getting it forward as quick as possible.  Yesterday wasnt a one off, its a constant thing week after week.

When arsenal can come to anfield and there fans are taunting us everytime we kick the ball with "hoof" chants, it tells u things have changed totally in english football.  They were once the long ball side of english football.

[burjennio]

Yes the long ball did get tiresome but that was more to do with the players, some of whom clearly arn't comfortable in possession, you could see the difference once Alonso went off, no one was tryin to pick out a pass after that and eventually the price was paid

[Big Niall]

I think we were lucky to get a point. I really think Arsenal are different class. They can pass the ball. we hoof it.

[Leonmc0708]

Yes, I don't know up there mate, but toe-pokes, hitting it with the front point of the boot is laughed by the typical idiots, but it's in fact, as you say, a valid option and probably the fastest way to make a shoot.

Some of the best goals I scored on the playground and on hte park where toe-ey's.

[Leonmc0708]

I think we were lucky to get a point. I really think Arsenal are different class. They can pass the ball. we hoof it.

I think Arsenal for all the lovely passing and movement where lucky to get a point.

Any other day PEpe would have been out and snubbed out that Fabregas chance, and two posts hit would not have been enough for Arsenal.

[Big Niall]

WE could have held out for a win but do you think we were better over 90 mins?

[Leonmc0708]

WE could have held out for a win but do you think we were better over 90 mins?

If we won the league through scraping 1-0 wins and evey one was an own goal by the opposition OR if we won the Cup following a goal that cannoned in off Riisea fat @rse OR if we win a cup competition on a penalty shoot out after not being the best team in the match does it make it any less sweet ?

Does it fuc.k.

Football is a results business, if you get entertained on the way, then very nice it was thankyou, but its the result that matters.