Liverpool FC Forum

[steviec]

I am serious about Torres, how many decent games has he played!   at best maybe 3.  smell the roses pal

[heimdall]

I am serious about Torres, how many decent games has he played!   at best maybe 3.  smell the roses pal

You must be on a wind up 

[Leonmc0708]

I am serious about Torres, how many decent games has he played!   at best maybe 3.  smell the roses pal

You must be on a wind up 

bot pettle klack

[Emerald Red]

Torres still hasn't adjusted to the pace and passion of the game on this Island, injured or not. He has no hunger for it.

Hmm, yeah, that's how he scored his first ever hat-trick on the island. 

[heimdall]

I am serious about Torres, how many decent games has he played!   at best maybe 3.  smell the roses pal

You must be on a wind up 

bot pettle klack

wow is that more scouse wit, love it   

Actually I have never been on a wind up, I stand by all my statements and do not say them to deliberately people off, they just always seem to have that effect   

[Wilhelmsson]

Arsenal have quality all over the pitch, and whoever he'd have put there would have had their work cut out. I certainly don't think bringing Babel on and shifting Gerrard over would've made any difference to the final score. Arbeloa's a defender and a good one at that - on another day he might've marked Fabregas out of the game from the point he came on.

On days like this far too much gets put on the manager for me. Tear his starting lineup to bits, but once the game starts, it's up to the players. If injuries hit, I think it's incredibly harsh to say that Rafa's tactical decisions are wrong. Those situations are very difficult to call, and if - say - Reina had put Fabregas' shot round the post, I'm sure we wouldn't be hearing a peep about anything to do with that substitution. On the flipside - last week when Gerrard was hauled off and there were people shrieking with horror on here after the game. This after a game we'd won. People were saying we were "lucky" after that decision. If that's the case, can't we say that we were simply "unlucky" this weekend?

You are correct; anyone would have their work cut out in the CM position against a team as capable as Arsenal. My point is that placing a full back at CM when Babel was on the bench and Gerrard could have played at CM is a rather strange tactical decision.

Bringing Babel on to the left and slotting Gerrard into CM might not have prevented the goal, but it would have been a damn sight better than playing a full back out of position against an Arsenal side whom are storming the league and champions league at present.

I’m of the opinion that Rafa set out a rather conservative side, with the intentions of pressing out Arsenal’s attack and counter attacking them when Arsenal came forth. It worked until the team pushed up a bit too much was caught on the break by a superb Arsenal move.

Injuries did hit and it would IMO have been wiser to bring Babel on instead of bringing on Arbeloa with the sole intention of shutting up shop and holding onto a 1-0 score line until the final whistle.

Even if Reina had put the ball behind the post, I would have still bought up the fact that Arsenal forced the team to play rather conservative football.

It’s ashame that the team never tested Arsenal by pressing them and preventing them from playing, the complexion of the match and the result of the match could gotten the team a much needed three points, still I can’t complain with one point.

[Rafas-Y-Fronts]

Excellent choice of formation by Rafa first and foremost.

Anyone with half a brain knows that the best way to nick something off a team playing 'Total Football' is to soak up the pressure and hit them on the counter attack.

I can't understand how a tactic that is designed for the sole purpose of exploiting an excellent passing team can be considered 'negative'.

Negative tactics would be playing into Arsenal's hands by playing 4 in the midfield and allowing them to play though us.

Compact formations always deny the opposition space and force them to play their football down the flanks which obviously isn't as dangerous as through the middle.

Passing teams like to play football through the middle due to their precise passing ability and quick movement. 

We closed a lot of this down well and were unfortunate to get caught out by the Fabregas goal which in all honesty would have been a comfortable save for Reina had he not been off-balanced.

We have some excellent passers of the ball at Anfield but the main thing that stops us playing football like Arsenal is our back four.

The only defender that is comfortable in possesion is Steve Finnan.

We give a lot of possesion away by being too direct from the back and putting balls into areas where it can be contested in the air instead of playing it short and simple.

Arsenal let the ball do the work for them and it is no coincidence that Pat Rice is their assistant manager.

When I played under Pat Rice and Steve Perryman they both taught to let the ball do the work and simple, quick, short passing is the key to wearing down the opposition and unlocking a defence.

Until we have a defence that is comfortable bringing the ball out of defence and looking for short options....we will never match Arsenal's playing style.

[Bad Bob]

Excellent choice of formation by Rafa first and foremost.

Anyone with half a brain knows that the best way to nick something off a team playing 'Total Football' is to soak up the pressure and hit them on the counter attack.

I can't understand how a tactic that is designed for the sole purpose of exploiting an excellent passing team can be considered 'negative'.

Negative tactics would be playing into Arsenal's hands by playing 4 in the midfield and allowing them to play though us.

Compact formations always deny the opposition space and force them to play their football down the flanks which obviously isn't as dangerous as through the middle.

Passing teams like to play football through the middle due to their precise passing ability and quick movement. 

We closed a lot of this down well and were unfortunate to get caught out by the Fabregas goal which in all honesty would have been a comfortable save for Reina had he not been off-balanced.

We have some excellent passers of the ball at Anfield but the main thing that stops us playing football like Arsenal is our back four.

The only defender that is comfortable in possesion is Steve Finnan.

We give a lot of possesion away by being too direct from the back and putting balls into areas where it can be contested in the air instead of playing it short and simple.

Arsenal let the ball do the work for them and it is no coincidence that Pat Rice is their assistant manager.

When I played under Pat Rice and Steve Perryman they both taught to let the ball do the work and simple, quick, short passing is the key to wearing down the opposition and unlocking a defence.

Until we have a defence that is comfortable bringing the ball out of defence and looking for short options....we will never match Arsenal's playing style.

Good post.

[Wilhelmsson]

So the only way to play against Arsenal is let them they play the team off the park and then that team gets a few lucky breaks and scores a few goals and goes into ultra defensive mode?

Right, I understand now, I didn’t realise Liverpool were relegation candidates, I thought the team had ambitions of challenging or even winning the league. I must have gotten the wrong club; I thought Liverpool was an Elephant of the football world, not a sloth.

[Effes]

I thought Liverpool was an Elephant of the football world, not a sloth.

We wont forget that

[Rafas-Y-Fronts]

Wilhelmsson......

Your reply indicates that you have a complete disregard for football tactics and utilising what you have to it's greatest effect.

This has nothing to do with us allowing Arsenal to play us off the park. They are a well drilled quick passing team who create excellent space!

We certainly weren't 'played off the park' so I don't understand that comment.

Tactically everything was spot on until we got caught out by a goal that wrongfooted our keeper because it was such a quickly executed toe-poke.

A 4 - 5 - 1 against a team who are as good as Arsenal at passing and keeping the ball is the only viable tactic you have as an option.....surely you can understand that???

When you are not in possesion of the ball......you have to work extremely hard to get it back again from a quick passing team and this will wear players down.

Torres was the natural choice to play upfront on his own because to counter-attack your frontman needs pace first and foremost.

Kuyt played because his energy levels are exceptional and you need that against this kind of opposition and the same applies to Voronin because as well as being extremely fit...they are both capable of holding onto the ball when they have it.

Sissoko was never going to play in this match because although he will break up play....he also gives the ball away far too much!

Babel's exclusion was an easy decision for Benitez as he is a luxury we couldn't afford against Arsenal because he doesn't work hard enough when we are not in possesion.

Why on earth anybody would support bringing on Babel instead of Arbeloa at that time in the game when you are trying to stay compact and close down space is beyond me!

Even with our 5 man midfield Arsenal created space to play their own game and total credit to them for doing that and coming to Anfield and playing their own game.

Young players do not feel as much pressure as older players and tend to want to just go out and play the way they know best and Arsene Wenger clearly encourages that.

We were quite happy to let them have a lot of the ball...hence our 4 - 5 - 1.... and pick them off on the break.

Being completely realistic.......if Rafa had gone for a 4 -4 -2 or even a 4 - 4 - 1 - 1......we would have been over-run and beaten heavily.

Individually we are much stronger than Arsenal....but they are a much better TEAM than us and could be possibly the best unit in world football at the moment.

Full credit to Benitez for seeing sense and letting his head rule his heart when it came to team selection.

[Kash_Mountain]

Torres still hasn't adjusted to the pace and passion of the game on this Island, injured or not. He has no hunger for it.

  Ok I take it you come from cloud cuckoo land

[LFC2007]

I’m of the opinion that Rafa set out a rather conservative side, with the intentions of pressing out Arsenal’s attack and counter attacking them when Arsenal came forth. It worked until the team pushed up a bit too much was caught on the break by a superb Arsenal move.

Injuries did hit and it would IMO have been wiser to bring Babel on instead of bringing on Arbeloa with the sole intention of shutting up shop and holding onto a 1-0 score line until the final whistle.

Even if Reina had put the ball behind the post, I would have still bought up the fact that Arsenal forced the team to play rather conservative football.

It’s ashame that the team never tested Arsenal bypressing them and preventing them from playing, the complexion of the match and the result of the match could gotten the team a much needed three points, still I can’t complain with one point.

Explain.

[metalhead]

Torres still hasn't adjusted to the pace and passion of the game on this Island, injured or not. He has no hunger for it.

 

[LFC2007]

We certainly weren't 'played off the park' so I don't understand that comment.

Tactically everything was spot on until we got caught out by a goal that wrongfooted our keeper because it was such a quickly executed toe-poke.

A 4 - 5 - 1 against a team who are as good as Arsenal at passing and keeping the ball is the only viable tactic you have as an option.....surely you can understand that???

When you are not in possesion of the ball......you have to work extremely hard to get it back again from a quick passing team and this will wear players down.

Torres was the natural choice to play upfront on his own because to counter-attack your frontman needs pace first and foremost.

Kuyt played because his energy levels are exceptional and you need that against this kind of opposition and the same applies to Voronin because as well as being extremely fit...they are both capable of holding onto the ball when they have it.

Sissoko was never going to play in this match because although he will break up play....he also gives the ball away far too much!

Babel's exclusion was an easy decision for Benitez as he is a luxury we couldn't afford against Arsenal because he doesn't work hard enough when we are not in possesion.

Why on earth anybody would support bringing on Babel instead of Arbeloa at that time in the game when you are trying to stay compact and close down space is beyond me!

Even with our 5 man midfield Arsenal created space to play their own game and total credit to them for doing that and coming to Anfield and playing their own game.

Young players do not feel as much pressure as older players and tend to want to just go out and play the way they know best and Arsene Wenger clearly encourages that.

We were quite happy to let them have a lot of the ball...hence our 4 - 5 - 1.... and pick them off on the break.

Being completely realistic.......if Rafa had gone for a 4 -4 -2 or even a 4 - 4 - 1 - 1......we would have been over-run and beaten heavily.

Individually we are much stronger than Arsenal....but they are a much better TEAM than us and could be possibly the best unit in world football at the moment.

Full credit to Benitez for seeing sense and letting his head rule his heart when it came to team selection.

At times, we were certainly outplayed by Arsenal, particularly in he first half.

I don't quite agree that everything was tactically spot on until their goal, you yourself acknowldege that, 'Torres was the natural choice to play upfront on his own because to counter-attack your frontman needs pace first and foremost.'

Therefore I certainly viewed Babel as the option to come on instead of Voronin, as opposed to Benayoun, after Torres had been substituted for Crouch.

In the second half, we had plenty space to exploit, but not the pace up front to match. Babel was the only option we had at that point to introduce pace up front. I disagree that Babel doesn't work hard enough when we're not in possession. He worked his nuts off against Besiktas, and in such a high pressure game, would no doubt have done the same against Arsenal, when required to do so. Arsenal have pace in abundance throughout their side, we don't, and for this reason IMHO Babel represented our best option to counter attack with some pace and power of our own.

The Arbeloa substitution was understandable in one respect, however, I can't disagree with Wilhemsson in that I would sooner have seen Gerrard revert to CM, with Babel being our pacey outlet.

Although, by then, Benayoun was on pitch, and perhaps the balance may have been slightly skewed.

Being completely realistic.......if Rafa had gone for a 4 -4 -2 or even a 4 - 4 - 1 - 1......we would have been over-run and beaten heavily

I don't know which parallel universe you visited but I'd love to know the way.