Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

Quite happy with a point today when I think about it. We were outplayed. They hit the post twice and dominated possession. But I think if we'd of got the 2nd goal early in the 2nd half when Almunia saved from crouch then it would have been game over.

Today showed how much we missed Alonso while he's been out. Just look at what happened to us when he went off. Mascherano was class as per. Riise was as per. Kuyt did alot of running without actually doing 'anything really.'

Benayoun didn't really do anything when he came on and unfortunately for us Torres was obviously not fit.

Hope the injuries to Alonso, Mascherano and Torres are not bad. We need them.

I think we just showed Arsenal too much respect today and let them play their game. It was like we were the away team at times.

We may have just seen this years champions playing today (and it wasn't Liverpool I'll tell you that).

I don't things are as bad as they looked today mate, we didn't need to chase the game (we were a goal up)Arsenal are very very quick on the break, so we didn't want to be caught out, and I think we were a bit overprotective of Hyypia.

We played with virtually 10 men first half, and once Torres went off Arsenal could push forward as much as they wanted as we had no pace up front AGAIN.

[premwanter]

ha ha
I was just about to say your previous post was good, then I read your last one!

I not saying everything is all good but it is still early I just think there are too many negative posts on here sometimes, but that's just my opinion...

I ll carrying on reading as oppose to posting!!

[premwanter]

I forgot to mention that was aimed at peewee my last post sorry
not used to this posting lark...

[112-1077774096]

ha ha
I was just about to say your previous post was good, then I read your last one!

I not saying everything is all good but it is still early I just think there are too many negative posts on here sometimes, but that's just my opinion...

I ll carrying on reading as oppose to posting!!

no mate, please post, i am just having some fun with you   


there are negative comments and that should tell you that many people think we are not playing well and they will voice their opinions. like i said previously i have more respect for these posters that the posters who can not see any faults, to me its a sign of honesty, not a sign of being disloyal

[112-1077774096]

I forgot to mention that was aimed at peewee my last post sorry
not used to this posting lark...

clock on the quote button mate, it will show my post in your post (in the white box), then people can see the post your referring to

[adamnbarrett]

Quite happy with a point today when I think about it. We were outplayed. They hit the post twice and dominated possession. But I think if we'd of got the 2nd goal early in the 2nd half when Almunia saved from crouch then it would have been game over.

Today showed how much we missed Alonso while he's been out. Just look at what happened to us when he went off. Mascherano was class as per. Riise was as per. Kuyt did alot of running without actually doing 'anything really.'

Benayoun didn't really do anything when he came on and unfortunately for us Torres was obviously not fit.

Hope the injuries to Alonso, Mascherano and Torres are not bad. We need them.

I think we just showed Arsenal too much respect today and let them play their game. It was like we were the away team at times.

We may have just seen this years champions playing today (and it wasn't Liverpool I'll tell you that).

I don't things are as bad as they looked today mate, we didn't need to chase the game (we were a goal up)Arsenal are very very quick on the break, so we didn't want to be caught out, and I think we were a bit overprotective of Hyypia.

We played with virtually 10 men first half, and once Torres went off Arsenal could push forward as much as they wanted as we had no pace up front AGAIN.

I didn't think we were that bad either to be honest.

Arsenal are a very very good team - probably better than us. If we hadn't of sat back and tried to defend then they'd of wiped the floor with us on the counter attack - the only sensible thing to do was defend.

As soon as we got the goal, we knew we had to be cautious. At the time, I thought we were unlucky not to have won but now I think a draw was a good result in the end.

Still unbeaten, still got a game in hand. Let's not hit the panic button just yet.

[LFC2007]

This is what gets me at the minute - Rafa's decision did not cost us the three points. A situation on the pitch cost us three points. Unless Rafa told Arbeloa to give Fabregas a shooting opportunity, you're talking absolute sh*te.

Maybe it was Rafa's fault that Reina was on the wrong foot as well? Maybe if Pako hadn't left, he'd have drilled it into the keeper that in a situation like that, he should have his weight on his other foot?

We got injuries on the pitch, we had limited resources on the bench, he could've rejigged the midfield, he chose to play a defensive player in Alonso's place. Under the circumstances, given the fact that Arsenal were all over us at the time, it was a fairly sensible-looking decision to me.

Honestly, some of the people calling themselves our fans at the moment are doing my f*cking head in.

I think you'll find the "ifithadn'tbeenfer" club are the ones in blue up the road. They'll no doubt be delighted to have you. 

Christ it’s Jeremy Clarkson, ok my initial point is way ward, but who sticks a defender in centre midfield and expects that player to play against Cesc, one of Europe’s finest young CM’s?  Rafa called the wrong decision IMO and it proved costly, because Arbeloa’s decision not to track back and cut out Cesc ultimately proved costly.

Of course Arbeloa, the defence and Reina are at fault, but Rafa’s decision to play a full back in the CM position against Arsenal is inviting problems. It’s happened now, and it’s dealt with, but it was a strange decision IMO.

I can have my own individual opinions right?

Arsenal have quality all over the pitch, and whoever he'd have put there would have had their work cut out. I certainly don't think bringing Babel on and shifting Gerrard over would've made any difference to the final score. Arbeloa's a defender and a good one at that - on another day he might've marked Fabregas out of the game from the point he came on.

On days like this far too much gets put on the manager for me. Tear his starting lineup to bits, but once the game starts, it's up to the players. If injuries hit, I think it's incredibly harsh to say that Rafa's tactical decisions are wrong.

It's also worth noting that Rafa makes decisions regarding player fitness levels on the advice of the club physician, physio's and fitness coaches.

I doubt Rafa would have risked either, but particularly Alonso given that he was suffering from a fracture, had he not received reasonable assurances that they were capable of playing from his backroom medical staff. Rafa cannot determine the extent to which a metatarsal has healed, only a qualified physician can, therefore I very much doubt he was given the go ahead to select Alonso without prior assurances from his medical staff.

Trying to pin this one on Rafa is particularly unfair IMHO.

[Bad Bob]

alonso was garbage, i suppose to be expected after his lay off, mash was immense and not looking as tired as he has been, with alonso injury its time for mash to cement his place, oh we don't cement places anymore do we no matter how well you are playing, silly me.

Garbage? Seriously?

I saw a player short of fitness who struggled with the pace of the game but, in the second half (before his injury obviously) especially, he was doing something we have sorely missed: completing mid-range passes and switching the play.  Mascherano, for all of his tenacity and Gerrard for all of his drive have not been as effective at this aspect of the game during his absence.  We'll miss him again now that he's re-aggrevated the foot.  His absence is not the reason we've struggled but it has absolutely contributed.

[112-1077774096]

alonso was garbage, i suppose to be expected after his lay off, mash was immense and not looking as tired as he has been, with alonso injury its time for mash to cement his place, oh we don't cement places anymore do we no matter how well you are playing, silly me.

Garbage? Seriously?

I saw a player short of fitness who struggled with the pace of the game but, in the second half (before his injury obviously) especially, he was doing something we have sorely missed: completing mid-range passes and switching the play.  Mascherano, for all of his tenacity and Gerrard for all of his drive have not been as effective at this aspect of the game during his absence.  We'll miss him again now that he's re-aggrevated the foot.  His absence is not the reason we've struggled but it has absolutely contributed.

he was a yard of the pace, he was caught in possession and his passing was poor, so yes he was garbage, but like i said that was due more to his fitness levels and lack of match action than being due to him being a bad player, he isn't a bad player, he is a great player, but yesterday he was garbage.

oh i forgot we can't critcise alonso can we   

[Bad Bob]

alonso was garbage, i suppose to be expected after his lay off, mash was immense and not looking as tired as he has been, with alonso injury its time for mash to cement his place, oh we don't cement places anymore do we no matter how well you are playing, silly me.

Garbage? Seriously?

I saw a player short of fitness who struggled with the pace of the game but, in the second half (before his injury obviously) especially, he was doing something we have sorely missed: completing mid-range passes and switching the play.  Mascherano, for all of his tenacity and Gerrard for all of his drive have not been as effective at this aspect of the game during his absence.  We'll miss him again now that he's re-aggrevated the foot.  His absence is not the reason we've struggled but it has absolutely contributed.

he was a yard of the pace, he was caught in possession and his passing was poor, so yes he was garbage, but like i said that was due more to his fitness levels and lack of match action than being due to him being a bad player, he isn't a bad player, he is a great player, but yesterday he was garbage.

oh i forgot we can't critcise alonso can we   

You'll find I'm not one to say you can't criticize a player or manager.  I am, however, one who takes issue when the criticism is OTT and, IMO, calling Alonso garbage is OTT.  The things you've pointed out I noticed as well but I would certainly argue that he grew into the game as it went on.  In fact, I would say that he was one of the main reasons why we weren't overrun by Arsenal at the start of the second half (like we had been in the first) because he was the one to put his foot on the ball and start picking out passes.  When he went off injured we ran into problems again which, IMO, was significant.

Almost forgot to mention a certain free kick he won, as well.  Garbage?  Nah.

[whylongball?]

alonso was garbage, i suppose to be expected after his lay off, mash was immense and not looking as tired as he has been, with alonso injury its time for mash to cement his place, oh we don't cement places anymore do we no matter how well you are playing, silly me.

Garbage? Seriously?

I saw a player short of fitness who struggled with the pace of the game but, in the second half (before his injury obviously) especially, he was doing something we have sorely missed: completing mid-range passes and switching the play.  Mascherano, for all of his tenacity and Gerrard for all of his drive have not been as effective at this aspect of the game during his absence.  We'll miss him again now that he's re-aggrevated the foot.  His absence is not the reason we've struggled but it has absolutely contributed.

he was a yard of the pace, he was caught in possession and his passing was poor, so yes he was garbage, but like i said that was due more to his fitness levels and lack of match action than being due to him being a bad player, he isn't a bad player, he is a great player, but yesterday he was garbage.

oh i forgot we can't critcise alonso can we   

agree he was short of fitness but i think the reason why Arsenal managed to get the goal was because once alonso was gone Liverpool lost control the midfield, hence possession. That actually leads me to think we did miss him for past games
As for Mash,damn, how did he manage to get his tackling right all the time.
If rafa wants 4-5-1, the trio Mash, Alonso, SG is there. Now he needs to wingers, not Kuyt

[bigmick]

Surprisingly enough I broadly agree with the camp which are sticking up for Rafa today. I agree with Lfc (once again surprisingly ) that it is unfair to blame the injuries on Rafa, he will have been acting under advice.

The truth is he gambled big time but he probably had no choice. Unlike the previous week at Everton where he successfully but needlessly gambled on taking Gerrard off when IMHO we were certainly going to win the game if he stayed on, this week he really had to go for it in my view and it's not his fault that it didn't really work.

Alonso has obviously been missed for a number of reasons (although bizarrely, Masherano who has been disappointing in my view was excellent today) while the absence of Torres, particularly in view of the fact that Crouch it seems will only be played when there are simply no other available options, has been acutely painful. That he went with both in a game we simply could not afford to lose and in all probability needed to win, is fine by me.

My hunch is that now both are "re-injured" and we were clearly second best for much of the game, we are going to need to re-think our aspirations for this season in the sense that we won't in all probablitity challenge for the title now. Had we though have kept our big guns in cotton wool and been beaten, we would have been out of it anyhow so I'm very comfortable with the gamble Rafa took.

I think from here on in it's best to take stock, try and get something going and build a team to challenge in the near future. Some tough decisions need to be made about one or two of the players, and some serious scouting needs to be done in order to strengthen the first team. I'm not being revolutionary here when I say that we are almost certainly going to need at least two new front players if Crocuh is sold (and I'd have a shot at picking one up in January, give him a few months to bed in before next season etc), as well as at least one, maybe two wide men and at least one maybe centre halves. The full-backs will also need a look, so clearly there is much work to be done.

Before anybody wades into me with all guns blazing, I'm not talking about replacing the whole team on the back of one draw. I am though talking about the ethos of the way we have approached this season sofar. Clearly (well it's clear to me anyway and I'd be interested to hear if anybodies view is different) the rotational selection policy has not done us any discernable favours, (I suppose there is the chance that Alonso, Pennant and Torres will be fresh later in the season but thats more likely due to the fact they have been recovering from injury than anything else I would have thought). So in a nutshell, going forward we have to look seriously at that policy if we are to progress in my view. It's probably fair to say also that compared to the rest of the squad we are over-endowed somewhat with central midfielders and this will probably have to be looked at. Without wanting to open old wounds, I would advocate selling any of our central midfielders bar Gerrard if that really was the only way to finance a deal for a really top quality forward. 

So like I say, there are hard decisions to be made. Rafa can make them, so lets use the rest of this season to really get ready for a challenge next campaign.

[account deleted by request]

I'm a bit surprised at the garbage comment mate, I thought Alonso missed a couple of tackles early on but as Badbob says seemed to grow into the game. Mascherano I thought was immence btw. If you want to talk about garbage, stick to Kuyt! He drove me round the twist today. His work rate and attitude are spot on, its a shame he's just not up to the job of striker.

As for bringing players back too quickly, this is not the first time this has happened, I realise the pressure they must feel to get them back for such important matches, but we seem to be getting it wrong too often for comfort. I just hope we don't pay too high a penalty for todays mistakes/gambles.

[Thingy]

" Liverpool, Hoof The Ball" Says it all really. The amount of times the Arsenal fans sang that was a little embarrasing, if thats the word. Saying that, we didnt do too badly. Held out for a decent point in my opinion, playing agaisnt arguably one of the best footballing sides in europe. Especially when we have Hyypia at the back, whos about as quick as a slug with Asthma, Torres half fit, and Alonso very Rusty. Not a bad point at all.

[LFC2007]

I think from here on in it's best to take stock, try and get something going and build a team to challenge in the near future. Some tough decisions need to be made about one or two of the players, and some serious scouting needs to be done in order to strengthen the first team. I'm not being revolutionary here when I say that we are almost certainly going to need at least two new front players if Crocuh is sold (and I'd have a shot at picking one up in January, give him a few months to bed in before next season etc), as well as at least one, maybe two wide men and at least one maybe centre halves. The full-backs will also need a look, so clearly there is much work to be done.

Almost a whole new team then