Liverpool FC Forum

[GunGod]

UEFA to investigate teams over final security

ATHENS, May 24 (Reuters) - UEFA has launched an investigation into security problems at Wednesday's Champions League final between Liverpool and AC Milan, an official at European soccer's governing body said.

Greek police on Wednesday arrested 97 people for possessing or selling forged tickets. Many others -- mostly British -- attempted force their way past the security perimeters around the Olympic Stadium hours before kick-off.


'We have launched an inquiry, but following our discussions with the Greek police and the organising committee, it seems as though Liverpool fans were mainly to blame,' UEFA's director of communications William Gaillard said on Thursday.

'However, it also seems around 800 Liverpool supporters got tickets in the Milan end which we know were distributed to AC Milan, not any ticket agency or travel agent.'

'So yes, if the club is found to have been involved in anyway or hasn't acted in a proper manner, they can expect action,' he said.

Gaillard said UEFA were satisfied with the actions of the local police and the organisation committee.

'To be honest, it is lucky nobody was killed. The police took a decision after being attacked by fans without tickets to allow them in as it was safer and avoided any further confrontation,' Gaillard said.

'Other fans knowingly bought forged tickets from touts and even from banned websites, thus putting the safety of fellow supporters, who bought their tickets legitimately, at risk.'

Source: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=433298&cc=4716

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I can't believe what I'm reading. If this is true, we just made the horrid Hillsborough lies about our supporters a tad more believable to others.

Of all people, Liverpool supporters tried to rush into a packed stadium knowing they have got no valid tickets (or no tickets at all for that matter).

Of course, the stories this time might not be true either. But if it is, and if you were one of the ticketless chickens trying to squeeze into the stadium, if you are reading this, I just want to let you know you have done some potentially serious damage to the image, as well as history, of Liverpool FC.

[LFC2007]

A couple of points to make

i) Had Gaillard and his mates at UEFA given us a fair allocation this would not have happened.

ii) Some LFC fans bought tickets without knowing they were forgeries, why would a fan 'knowingly' buy a forged ticket given that they would effectively be throwing their money away.

iii) The sale of black market tickets was fuelled by UEFA's allocation to commercial sponsors/UEFA 'partners' etc. That was one of the main sources of tickets on the black market, had he and his mates thought twice about this, there may have been no problem.

[Reg]

Add to those two points that uniquely in europe, British fans travel without tickets and when the local spivs start asking crazy high prices they start to take things into their own hands.

Solutions
1. Only play 80,000 capcity stadiums (mostly national).
2. Stop trying to please all the people all the time and allocate the tickets to those who have the demand and therefore cut down the non ticket travelling support,
3. Only play finals in places that are capable of being properly policed by experienced coppers, at stadiums capable of being effectively policed,
4. Make the tickets suitably forgery proof - creditcard swipe style? I dunno I am not a security expert.
5. UEFA - stop blaming everyone else for your own failings, this is a passionate footy final, not a village fair. 

Its all common sense if you ask me. But I'm only Sam Allardyce....!

[RUSHIE#9]

From the stories that have been recounted by fans that were there I get the impression that yet again UEFA is passing the buck for poor organisation. Stories of people being allowed to enter with JJB Sports gift vouchers and anything that looked remotely like the same colour as the tickets. You also have people with genuine tickets entering the stadium and then passing the tickets back through the fences  to mates who then got in with the same ticket.

When a team with fans as passionate as ours reaches the biggest club final around then there is always going to be a massive demand for tickets, even more so after 2005 and to only allocate 17,000 seats is just downright wrong.

Considering that Uefa is a governing body of football it couldn't come across as being more out of touch with the game if it tried. They have been told time and again that certainly from Liverpool there will always be huge demand for tickets but time and again they don't listen. All that seems to interest them is hob-nobbing with the rich and powerful with football as the backdrop.

I find it distrubing that the greek police took the descision to fire tear gas into a congested area that contained young children at the first sign of a problem developing. People are going to be understandably upset after paying out thousands of pounds in fares and for a genuine ticket to be denied entry in full view of the ground. The organisation has been a sore point all the way upto this final and while some blame is rightly put into the fans UEFA seriously have to look at the way they organize these events. The distribution of tickets and the design of tickets must be high up the agenda as well.

[BOODIDDY]

after all the events of yesterday, i must say that my faith in other liverpool "fans" as diminished somewhat.

To say the day was a let down is a understatement!

First of all, i arrived at Liverpool John Lennon at 0030 weds. My flight was due t leave at 0230 but was delayed until 0600. We finally set off at 0715 and the service of the cabin crew was terrible. No food or drink.

We arrived at Athens airport at 1300 and was taken to a tent that was just like the military set up in Basra for their planes.

We wasn't given a choice of transport, we were just put on a coach and sent to omonia station. No directions for Santagna square were given and so i walked the half mile to the square.

The fans there were in a great mood considering the lack of pubs, stalls for food and lack of toilets. The flags were out and the songs were great.

I had to pay 70euro's for a box of smirnoff ice and 30 euros for 8 cans of warm amstel off some gypsies (well, they weren't gypsies, but i was off with them for ripping me off).

When it was due to leave for the stadium we headed to theunderground and the atmosphere down there was great. We were only singing and even though the trains were full to the brim we didn't cause trouble. However, the greek police thought it was appropriate to use batons to order those who missed first train, back away from platform.

When i did catch the scond train, the atmosphere on it was great. Until, we arrived at stadium. The doors of the train opened and the greeks just weilded in demanding tickets and grabbing anyone who raised their voice sat their heavy armed tactics.

When we (me,mum and sister) went through the first "barrier", i was shocked at first the ineffectiveness of the barriers. (just metal fencing that we use over here for building sites). Secondly, the nastiness of some of our so-called fans.

One lad wanted to kick off with a man in his 60's because he told him to be calm. The thug told him to "fu..ck off, or get his head caved in".

I and some others intervened and told the lad to behave, but the problem was that their were many others intent on causing major trouble for the genuine fans with real tickets and the authorities!

Getting through that gate was hard. I had to help two young girls through who were crying and getting crushed due to the number of thugs trying to get through the barriers without tickets. One man with his young son had to go through this with his young lad screaming because he thought he was gonna die. (yes, he said that, cos i was at the side of the kid)

After this, their was a couple more "security checkpoints". But, they didn't serve a positive purpose. They just bottle-necked fans again causing further disturbance.

At the final point their were stewards checking for fakes etc. When you passed them, you came to armed police again and they just treated you like s.h.it. They took everything off me including lypsil for fuc..k sake.

Inside the stadium the atmosphere was great but i did see a very big influx of ticketless fans run into the stadium. (these are the ones that ran the turnstile and give the police no choice but to use tear gas etc)

After the game, the signs for those going back to the airport were a joke. When we finally got back, we were sheparded back to the "tent". The passport control was a farce and again people were getting squashed. But, this was purely the authorities fault. (leon can back me up here, cos i saw him there. he later lost it with some liitle upstart who wouldn't let him go the back steps of the plane!

Finally, sat on the plane most of us were knackered and fed up. Even if we had won the atmosphere would of been of relief at getting home away from that so-called great city.

I really don't know what uefa were thinking in giving athens a final that they couldnt cope with. However, the tickets were so poor that anyone could of copied them. So, on that point i can't blame people for chancing it.

But, ultimately, the blame should be left at the feet of those so called liverpool fans who abused and threatened their own and were intent on creating havoc and violence for the police. The police were terrible though. They acted no differently to those that you saw in Heysel. (i've watched the videos and have been told of the event by my mum and dad who went)

I hope those that caused this trouble feel ashamed today to call themselves liverpool fans.

I also hope that uefa acts on its ideas for places for finals. I see that moscow is the next stop. If liverpool get there then i definately ain't going. But uefa is corrupt to the bone and it was quite appropriate that the team that cheated for years and was allowed back in immediately and won. Platini was happy as hell as even now, he believes it was liverpool fans 110% who caused the trouble in 85.

That's another story though. What i'm really dis-appointed in, is the so-called fans that haven't listened or absorbed the horrible events of Hillsbrough.

Sorry it was so long but i needed to get that off my chest.

[mkmkmk]

I to was not impressed and witnessed a bunch of over emotional scousers at their worst I'm afraid. Outer cordon was fine when I arrived 3 hours before KO. Ticket checked ok, never had the stub removed at all though. Then further in we just were told to hold them up. Final check at gate into stadium. But!! In front of me a family trying to smuggle their kid in. Held up 4  tickets for 3 people. Then inside another family had smuggled their kid in. Guy came to sit down and they had to move kid between them on the crack between the seats. Later on is when I found out about those with genuine tickets not getting in. Truly awful and every person who got in with a known fake or nothing at all is a disgrace. I even had a guy come up to me asking if I reckined he'd ghet in with a blue leaflet!! Well in fact he'd already got through cordon one with it.

The pictures on TV showed it all with some rushing the gates. No excuses this time 'fans', you will disgrace the club if you start blaming everyone but yourselves.

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

you know what unless something is done to stop this then at some point in the future where going to have an incident along the lines of hillsborough, and its not over the top to suggest something like this might happen because i was at hillsborough the years before the trajedy and know only to well how easy it would of been to have stopped it. some of the pictures ive seen tonight on the news of men women and children vomiting and coughing there guts up because tear gas was used on and them is a bloody disgrace, innocent fans with tickets treated this way because yobs not fans robbed them of the chance to see there heroes play in a champions league final. yes the greek authorities have to take a long hard look at themselves and so to UEFA, but liverpool fans and its hard to actually use that word to describe these people because they only bring shame upon our club, god im so angry i need to stop.

[BOODIDDY]

john your feelings are spot on. i am ashamed to be associated with these wan.ker.s. we are a great club with great fans but these mindless, pi..ssed up idiots will spoil it for ever. we want a global brand so we can take the next step. we never walk alone but we must leave these so called fans on their own

[GunGod]

The issue is getting blown up. Obviously by the press and UEFA executives who have had an agenda against us since Hillsbrough.

And we had to invite them to slap us in the face with such behavior.

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UEFA blames Liverpool fans for ticket chaos

UEFA's head of communications William Gaillard has pointed the finger at Liverpool fans after crowd and ticketing problems marred the Champions League final against AC Milan in Athens.

Rafael Benitez's side went down 2-1 to Milan on the night but many Reds fans with genuine tickets were not allowed inside the Olympic stadium while others managed to breach security with forged tickets or none at all.

While many Liverpool supporters blamed UEFA's ticketing policy and the Greek authorities, Gaillard insisted a minority of Reds fans were the cause of the problems which saw their fellow Merseysiders suffer as a result.

Gaillard told Sky Sports News: 'There is no doubt some Liverpool fans are to blame and at the same time some Liverpool fans were also the victims of the behaviour of other Liverpool fans.'

He also insisted supporters should take 'collective responsibility' and accept their actions had harmed others.

'There were statements in the media that people shouldn't buy from websites that weren't authorised to sell tickets,' Gaillard continued.

'And that people without tickets shouldn't go to the stadium. There were festivals in town where they could see on the wide screen.

'Unfortunately, they went to the stadium and they went earlier than people with valid tickets.

'There was some light fighting with the police - unfortunately some people managed to climb barriers and entered the stadium when they should not have been there.

'And then we had an overcrowded Liverpool end when there probably was a few thousand people who should not have been there.

'Fortunately because the Greek police used rather soft policing techniques no-one was hurt.

'But we had a very overcrowded Liverpool end with alleys filled with people - particularly without tickets - and then as a consequence we learn that some people with valid tickets could not even get in.

'So I think it is a question here of collective responsibility. Fans who do these things which are illegal in all countries of the world should understand that they are denying their rights to people who are legitimate in the stadium.'

Gaillard believes the incidents were not isolated, comparing the actions of the Reds fans last night to their behaviour in Istanbul two years ago.

'Their behaviour should be more controlled,' he continued.

'In Istanbul I was there at the Champions festival outside the stadium. The moment before the game (when) we said the Champions festival closes, no more beer, go into the stadium, the Milan fans went straight to the stadium. Unfortunately the minority of Liverpool fans trashed the place.

'So, I want to examine the situation. In Liverpool, talk to the fans, people who are responsible for the associations and I think there should be some self-criticism on their part.'

Gaillard deflected criticism of the police outside the stadium, saying: 'There is no doubt at one point the Greek police - because they were faced with rather aggressive people - lost a bit of control of the situation.

'I think their priority was that no-one should get hurt.

'But of course in the end a few hours before the game the situation was so tense and potentially so dangerous that probably the Greek police thought `just let them in' because what is the alternative - beat them up?'

Gaillard also dismissed criticism of the choice of venue which resulted in the Reds being allocated just 17,000 tickets.

'We had a stadium that holds almost 70,000.

'We have stadiums that go to 80,000, Wembley at 90,000 and then Barcelona at just over 100,000.

'Is it the solution to only have games at Wembley and Barcelona every year?

'People should understand that sometimes they will not have a ticket - that does not give them the right to violate the law.'

Gaillard also claimed the problem was a British one but he compared the actions of the minority of Reds fans unfavourably with their Celtic counterparts.

'It is for sure more of a British problem because every year when there is a British club usually the problem is there.

'It is nothing reprehensible or criminal - people want to see the game.

'We understand that but they should be reasonable enough to understand that if they don't have a ticket they are not going to get into the stadium.

'We have Celtic fans in Seville, probably three times as many as got into the stadium for the UEFA Cup four years ago, but they decided to stay in the middle of the city and watch it on the big screen and have a party and we had no problems.

'So think everyone should have that mentality. If you don't have a ticket, go and enjoy the atmosphere of the city where the final is held, watch it on the big screen with our friends and if we win we'll celebrate and if we lose we hope to win the next time.'

Shadow sports minister Hugh Robertson launched a powerful attack on UEFA and claimed the ticket problems in Athens were 'a disgrace'.

Robertson said: 'Given that demand for European Cup final tickets was always going to exceed the number available, the authorities should have put proper procedures in place to detect fake tickets.

'It is an absolute disgrace that Liverpool fans bought tickets through the club only to be denied entry to the game.

'From everything that I have been told this morning, UEFA picked the wrong venue and then compounded the error by failing to put the correct systems in place to manage the situation on the ground. They should look to their own shortcomings before seeking to blame others.'

Meanwhile, Simon Gass, the British ambassador to Greece, said UEFA needed to look at the issue of fake tickets.

Gass told BBC Radio Five: 'The organisers had a plan which involved three cordons to try to ensure that people who didn't have tickets were not able to get into the stadium.

'Clearly there was some element of breakdown where those fake tickets appeared to be legitimate - that's something UEFA must look at.

'The vast majority of fans with proper tickets got in but even if a small minority did not, that's not satisfactory.'

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=433140&cc=4716

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Sports minister to quiz Platini over ticket debacle

Sports minister Richard Caborn is to raise the crowd problems at the Champions League final with UEFA president Michel Platini after a number of bona fide Liverpool ticket-holders were refused entrance to the Olympic Stadium in Athens.


UEFA have put the blame for the problems squarely on to ticketless Liverpool fans or those with forgeries gaining access to the stadium and forcing Greek police to declare the ground full.

Caborn will raise the issue with Platini when they meet on June 5 in Brussels.

The minister said: 'I have a lot of sympathy with the Liverpool fans who paid their hard-earned money for genuine tickets but couldn't get into the ground.

'The reasons for this need an urgent explanation. We have already raised the matter with the Greek authorities through our embassy in Athens and government officials are also talking with UEFA.

'I will also be putting this issue high on the agenda at a meeting I am to have with Michel Platini in Brussels in two weeks time.'

The Conservatives' sports spokesman Hugh Robertson launched a powerful attack on UEFA and claimed the ticket problems in Athens were 'a disgrace'.

Robertson said: 'UEFA picked the wrong venue and then compounded the error by failing to put the correct systems in place to manage the situation on the ground. They should look to their own shortcomings before seeking to blame others.

'It is an absolute disgrace that Liverpool fans bought tickets through the club only to be denied entry to the game.'

UEFA communications director William Gaillard insisted the Greek police had been forced into a position where they could not prevent some ticketless fan moving barriers without provoking a riot.

Gaillard said: 'What's a disgrace is the behaviour of some Liverpool fans who deprived the rightful holders of tickets from entering the ground.

'Such statements from the Conservative Party encourages such behaviour - they should be condemning it.

'There was not a single incident involving AC Milan fans, and when Celtic were in the UEFA Cup final in Seville a few years ago there were three times as many fans outside the ground as inside and there was perfect behaviour.'

Gaillard also backed the Greek police, but said that UEFA would be looking again at the arrangements of the final to see what could be improved.

He added: 'I believe the police behaved in a very civilised way to avoid anyone being hurt, or worse.'

Simon Gass, the British ambassador to Greece, said UEFA needed to look at the issue of fake tickets.

Gass told BBC Radio Five: 'The organisers had a plan which involved three cordons to try to ensure that people who didn't have tickets were not able to get into the stadium.

'Clearly there was some element of breakdown where those fake tickets appeared to be legitimate - that's something UEFA must look at.

'The vast majority of fans with proper tickets got in but even if a small minority did not, that's not satisfactory.'

Gass is also to speak to the Greek authorities about some fans being tear-gassed as trouble broke out outside the stadium.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=433335&cc=4716

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I suppose even suggesting that some of those ticketless thugs might not even be British isn't going to help for we all fall under the LFC banner.

I just hope they do not keep this in the news any longer for every second its in the news waves we are sustaining substantial damage to our image and heritage.

[Kharhaz]

How come this year, when we are the most improved country for stamping out hooligans and violence on the terraces, that Man Utd fans, Tottenham fans and now Liverpool fans are causing all this agro?
It seems to me that as soon as something kicks of immediately its the english fans that have caused it, straight away, no questions asked, English fans are to blame.

[Effes]

There were some scumbags in Athens though

[Rob Sallnow]

I have long since given up thinking Liverpool fans are 'special' and know that certain fans are just as prone to the same thuggish human behaviour as those from every every other club.....but some behaviour makes them even worse and fans of a club with incidents like Hillsborough and Heysel in their history trying to force their way in to a stadium without tickets or when gates have been closed tops the lot.

I think the fans, the police and UEFA have all got to acknowledge their failings which contributed to events but I think the greatest blame has to go on UEFA for creating circumstances which lead to problems.

I think UEFA should be bold and give a higher percentage of the capacity to the fans of the competing clubs, distributed by the clubs. This would increase the number of fans travelling with a ticket and reduce availability of corporate tickets that get sold by people that don't actually want them, both of these things would reduce the number of ticketless people turning up in the host city thinking they have a very good chance of buying tickets from touts. People that have paid hundreds of pounds on hiked up airfares and failed to get their expected tout tickets are more likely to go to desperate measures to get in....from using fakes to mugging other fans for their tickets or ripping tickets from the hands of families that are complying with the 'hold your tickets up' command.

UEFA might not responsible for people making and selling forged tickets but they are 100% responsible for allowing these people to get in the stadium with them...making the police close the stadium because it is full even tough legitimate ticket holders are stll trying to get in. I very much doubt you can get in to Anfield or Wembley by showing a leaflet that is the same colour as a ticket. UEFA need to ensure a stadium that wants to host the final have secure entry systems, not just a pretty roof. There has to be a reasonable sprinkling of such places across Europe surely!!

[ivor_the_injun]

This thread over on RAOTL makes very, very grim reading.

http://forum.raotl.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=54012

"STH of many years with his two lads - all 3 tickets robbed by a gang between check points."

"13 year old daughter who actually said Mum I'm scared because of the crushed we had to go through. Very badly organised and certainly not a ground to hold a European Cup match in."

"...And then some of these same "supporters" who climbed fences and ran over little kids are singing JFT 96 inside. You f*cking kidding me?!"

"The atmosphere outside the ground was very tense and very un-nvering.

Seeing a young lad punching an ald fella and then leggin it with his ticket was a low point."

"the organization at the ground was complete sh*t. I entered through the gates 24-35ish entrance and for some f*cking reason they wouldn't let us in through there. That resulted in a stampede through the gates there and it nearly got ugly. A couple of young lads (10 or 11) got mashed up into the gates and one of them got scraped pretty bad in his face. Was scary for a minute. Right after I got through (I had a real ticket btw) more police arrived and started with the batons."

"1st checkpoint okay, 2nd checkpoint uv scanned, 3rd checkpoint punched hole in ticket.
Then me & Harry B walked about 500/600 yards to our Gate 1 and was met with several black police coaches blocking the access with a 10 foot gap and a dozen or so riot police manning that gap.

I couldnt believe what i came up against, we had out ticket checked,scanned,punched and yet the police would not let us past.
There was no violence but some shouting going on from other reds saying let us in, we've got genuine tickets .
Me and Harry B were to the side of the police bus near the riot police, and the next thing the rior police opened up and 2 of them came out hitting fans with trunchons before going back and being sealed by the shields.
I could'mt believe what i saw as there was no provocation, about a minute later i got kicked, and a hefty whack on my right thigh (which is still killing me) by the oh so friendly riot police.
I was in agony, as i never got whacked before and i tell you what, it is painful. Just as that happened a load of spray shot right above us all, about 20 in number and got covered in Pepper spray.
I was blinded and eyes streaming down my face, bloodshot to hell, but Harry B managed to get me and pull me to safety.
After a few minutes of wiping and watering my eyes i could see but still sore, a good policeman called us over and said if you come with me you can go through this gap, and see the match
About a dozen of us got through this narrow gap between the police coaches 2 coaches away.
We ran/hobbled about another 100 yards to gate 1 when we were told it was full, but after a few minutes he let 3 of us in.
We got in eventually 15 minutes into the game, after spending a good hour and three quaters trying to get in."

[LFC2007]

4. Make the tickets suitably forgery proof - creditcard swipe style?

That's what they did at the euros in 2004.

[Naomi]

. Make the tickets suitably forgery proof - creditcard swipe style?

Radio ones big weekend was at Preston last weekend and the tickets for that had barcodes on them which when scanned brought up the persons name and postcode that they had been issued to,  you then had to produce some kind of ID to get in. Maybe something like this could be the answer to stop forgeries and stolen tickets?