Liverpool FC Forum

[RedSi]

Some interesting talking points, we can certainly conclude that we are stuck with Kermit for the forseeable future....


The Liverpool chairman David Moores last night flung his support behind his beleaguered manager Gérard Houllier at a fractious annual general meeting, but admitted he would consider his own position if matters failed to improve at the club by the end of the season.
Houllier and the Liverpool board were subjected to a barrage of criticism from disgruntled shareholders at Anfield, and the Frenchman, stony-faced and clearly unsettled, was first to depart the top table at the end. The manager's transfer policy and the commitment of some of his players came under fierce scrutiny, with one shareholder earning a round of applause after stating he felt "very sadly let down" by those at the club.

"It's been a sad night, a sad night for me personally and the rest of the board," said Moores, who owns a 51.6% stake in Liverpool and whose family have been involved with the club since the 1950s. Moores has been chairman since 1991 and has experienced his own frustrations this season with Liverpool currently 20 points from the top and eight points from the relegation zone.

"I didn't expect an easy ride in this meeting because it's not been good enough for our club," Moores added. "But I still believe in the values of Gérard. Maybe, in time to come and if it gets any worse, I'll have to look at my own position because the buck stops with me, the chairman. If it means I have to dilute my shares or even sell to another Abramovich, I will. But we are not going to sink the anchor halfway through a season. At the moment we carry on and try and get through this. I believe in what the manager has planned for the future."

For the first time in a Liverpool AGM it became clear that many shareholders do not share that unswerving belief, though the chief executive Rick Parry declined to answer one questioner demanding to know the "non-financial implications" of non-qualification for the Champions League next May, implying Houllier's removal as manager.

"The reality is we are not sixth from bottom but sixth from top," said Parry, who saw a 4% rise in the club's turnover to almost £102.5m and a pre-tax profit of £3.6m overshadowed by the criticism from the floor. "We are firmly in the belief that we are going in the right direction. All being well, we'll be amongst those places [the top four] come May."

The means of achieving that were outlined by Houllier in his own speech though Liverpool's manager of five years admitted the players he had brought in the summer before last- the trio of El Hadji Diouf, Bruno Cheyrou and Salif Diao cost a combined £18m - had failed to make the expected impact.

"I'll hold my hands up in the knowledge that some of the recruits have not delivered," he said. "Some of the players brought into the club in 2002 have not shown what they can do and are not producing. But they, like the rest, are desperate to do well. We need patience. If we stick together we will come through this together.

"We want to keep the basis of the team together. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

"We need to improve the squad by bringing in outstanding players, like the four we bought this summer. I have no intention of bringing anyone in this January." Even Houllier's belief that Michael Owen would sign a new long-term contract at Anfield did not appease his audience, who were nevertheless relieved at confirmation that Liverpool would pull out of the construction of a new stadium if the costs threatened to soar above the estimated £80m. The club's third largest shareholder, the building magnate Steve Morgan, reaffirmed his willingness to inject fresh capital into the scheme.

"It's a night when the shareholders have shown their frustrations," said Morgan, the former owner of the Redrow housebuilding group. "We spent tonight talking about catching up with Manchester United, but 14 years ago we were ahead of United in terms of trophies, finance and level of support."

[big al]

Well Well well.

What was also said by many of the shareholders last night was that fourth place in the premeirship was unacceptable to them. "Its not the standard which a club like Liverpool should be settling for"

Parry, Moores and Houlier all set this as the minimum level but that was way below what the majority of those present expect.  Seems that unlike some of the fans on this forum that those share holders agree with the vast majority "Its just not good enough".

What saddens me though is that David Moores is blaming himself for this situation.  Sadly due to the death of his father he's had to learn the hard way. His tenure as chairman is thus been relatively short and he was through in at the deep end.  I think he'll be a stronger man and chairman for all this misfortune. 

I recently posted a topic catch 22 and whilst the stadium is under threat thankfully Steve Morgan may be the saving grace.  Money may well be available after all for the new manager.

[Owzat]

Trouble is we had some "Underachievers" here before the trio arrived and we didn't get shot of them. There is always hope but we look like being stranded outside of the top three and maybe worse if one or two players like Owen leave. Only a couple of seasons ago we were doing well, finishing 2nd with 80 points, beating manure home and away and looking potential title contenders for the next season - we finished fifth. The disruption to the back four has been most damaging in my view, the solid defence of Carragher, Hyppia, Henchoz and Babbel has been sorely missed. Only Kewell has come in and made a real impact and that has been in spite of all the problems this season. Something needs to be done and it's a choice between sticking it out, getting a new manager or spending lots of money on new faces - I know which I'd go for

[Bring Dalglish back]

What an excellent post RedSi, I really enjoyed reading that. I enjoyed it because I can't get to Liverpool to attend such things as AGM's - I tend only to go to Liverpool on match days therefore it is nice to read posts such as yours.

Similarly, if you can't attend an AGM, usually you can find out what happened on local radio (BBC Radio Merseyside), but because I live outside the catchment area and can't pick-up their frequency, I am totally unawares as to what is said in them.

[big al]

Owzat your right! The transfer window is open so why is Houlier not canceling the loan spell of Marcus Babble.  Who I might add is playing really well for Blackburn, his goals have earned them much valued points. Why? because they fell out and Houleir considers His own egotistical pride to be more important than Liverpool football club.

[RedSi]

I can't take the credit BDB, it was lifted straight from Guardian Unlimited, I thought it was an interesting insight however.......

[RedSi]

Hear, Hear Big Al, the same egotistical pride that means we have to put up with Biscan in the starting line up every game just cos GH promised us a while back that he was the future centre half......

[redandblue]

I very much disagree with BigAl on the Moores point. David Moores is a clown. He may well be a Red through and through, but he is a clown. During his stewardship, we have seen the decline of one of Europe's finest clubs where our ambitions these days are to try to finish in fourth spot.

It was Moores who gave us the comical 'Two Managers' a few years ago with EVERYONE saying that this couldn't work. He made the club look amateurish and downright daft.

He now refuses to get rid of a manager whom the fans have lost confidence in and who clearly doesn't inspire his players.

The gap between LFC and the top three is widening.........did you see the quality of Arsenal's football against Leeds the other evening? We can't even think of competing at that level.

Moores, Parry and Houllier are all in denial mode. They talk about finishing fourth, about a good run in the UEFA Cup, about winning the FA Cup. What they don't realise is that the fans would trade all of that silverware to have a team which was up there with Arsenal, Chelsea and United and getting to the latter stages of the Champions Cup.

We are a long way from that level of football. The fans know it, and so too does Michael Owen which is why he will be off unless Houllier gets the chop. He deserves to be playing in a good team.

[big al]

Redandblue I totally can accept your points. Up until my most recent visit to Anfield I would agree with you.  Then I met a very wealthy gentlemen who I think was a share holder.  David Moore's plans for liverpool are no less ambitious than those of the past.  He has been very badly let down by the people around him.

I forget the name of Rick Parry's predecessor someone here might remember.  But the stroy is that he was a genuis of the highest order, knew everything and everyone.  Moore's old man trusted him completely.  He retired and everything went tits up.  Souness arrived thinking that it mattered very little that he'd been gone for such a long time.  He was keen, eager and wanted to stamp his authority on the club and players who saw him a an outsider.  Souness could'nt see that himself and it was all down hill from there.  The old CEO would have put David Moores right who would have put Souness right.
Alas no.  Believe me I toally understand were your coming from and sympathise but I think a lot of it stems from total frustration at him not getting rid of Houlier immediately.  Sadly for the fans Moores has other fish to fry, so to speak.

[RedSi]

Peter Robinson.....?

[big al]

REDSI  Houlier is a fool.  Poor old Biscan is in the immortal words of John Lennon  " A nowhere man, living in his nowhere land" in fact maybe those words are more appropritae for Houlier, afterall it was the Great Man Shanks who said that even second was NOTHING!

[redandblue]

Yes, the CEO was the legendary PB Robinson. He held the club together, knew the game and the politics. And his judgment on players.........when to buy and when to sell was the best in the game. If he was on the discussion board, I KNOW that he would be saying the same as us.

GH...please leave. As for Moores, I do think that he has allowed mediocrity to infiltrate a club which once stood for excellence. I have never known Liverpool fans to be so disillusioned with the manager and with the Board.

But, yes, it went tits up under Souness and never really recovered.

[oldredeyes]

You're right about Peter Robinson being good at his job - a man needed by Liverpool to direct them along the right commercial path. But don't forget it was Peter Robinson who pushed the Board of Directors to take on GH and it was his suggestion for the 'joint managers fiasco' with Evans.
As it was Evans was badly treated and GH took the job full time - thanks mainly to the support given to him by Robinson. A good man at his job - a bad judge of managers.
David Moores should in all honesty take a fair slice of the blame but the biggest slice of blame for our miserable state goes to GH. He bought the players, he made false promises five years ago, he has failed to deliver.
The buck for Liverpool FC as a business stops at Moores door but the buck for under-achieving mediocre players stops at GH's door.
Unless we start to play some fantastic football soon, the revolution that began last night will grow intensely.

[redandblue]

Yes, Peter Robinson did indeed recommend GH for the manager's job, which, at the time was probably a good decision. GH did in fact take the club forward. But we are now heading in the wrong direction again and GH seems powerless to stop the rot.

[JBG]

I was going to do my own post on the AGM but I'll put what I had written into this post:


"Liverpool’s AGM was held on Monday night and details of the minutes were leaked to today’s papers. Apparently Houllier, David Moores and Rock Parry came in for a lot of criticism from the other shareholders.

The criticism was about the finances of the club and the continual inability to compete for the championship. Apparently everybody at the club is afraid that we are falling further behind Man UTD and even the likes of Newcastle in financial terms as UTD pull in £1million more per home game than Liverpool in gate receipts, and the club is becoming increasingly frustrated with the 44,000 capacity at Anfield (which is not a big secret by the way: we have all heard this before). The proposals are that we increase Anfield’s capacity but this will cost at least £60million, and there is the perenial problem that we might not be able to develop given the close proximity of so many houses around the stadium (in some case only twenty yards away). The other option which has been mooted by David Moores is that we move to a new stadium in Stanley Park. All of this is not a big secret, we have all heard about the Stanley Park plans before.

However, there is a row brewing among the shareholders which could lead to the Moores family being ousted from Anfield. It obviously relates to the poor results on the pitch, but the straw that could break the camel’s back is the new stadium. Moores plan is that the club takes out an £80million loan to finance the new stadium. However, the problem with this is that some of the minority shareholders have criticised Moores’ plan, saying that the new stadium will probably run to more than £100million and the way the loan is restructured is hugely dependant on us qualifying consistantly for the Champions League. If our bad run continues, we could end up with huge financial problems.

The other problem is that some of the minority shareholders want to finance the stadium themselves by donating money/increasing their shareholding/given generous loans to the club. However, this would mean that David Moores would have to concede some of his shares and take a back seat to some of the others, effectively meaning that the 50 years Moores dynasty at Anfield will come to an end. He doesn’t want to do this, but he did admit that the row over the new stadium might lead to him considering his position. I have heard a rumour that one minority shareholder in particular (Morgan) has his knife sharpened for Moores and wants to take over the club.

There was then a row about the club’s finances in general, and Houllier, who was in attendance, got a lot of criticism over the team’s performances, particularly the failure to qualify for the champions league. One shareholder openly criticised Houllier’s spending in the summer of 2002, and Houllier was forced to admit on Monday night that Diouff, Diao and Cheyrou had flopped as signings. The general consensus at the AGM was that money is now scarce and Houllier will not be handed much cash in the summer.

I think that this could be the beginning of an incredibly important period in Liverpool’s history, and I think that the looming power struggle could determine whether we are going to catch up with Man UTD or become the new Tottenham Hotspur. I think Moores (and consequently) Houllier’s days are numbered. If we fail to qualify for the Champions League this year Houllier will definitely go, as the minority shareholders are beginning to gang up on David Moores.

There has been a few threads going around lately saying how we should support Houllier and how the club is in a very healthy financial condition. One member siad the other day that the club was very flush with cash. I think that the problems disclosed on Monday night about the financing of the new stadium shows that some people are completely deluded and the club is becoming more and more strapped for cash.

On a brighter note, Michael Owen is leaving SFX (his agency company) as he was extremely angry that they told the papers he would go if Liverpool didn’t qualify for the Champions League. His dad Terry will run his affairs for him from the summer on."