Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Gerrard was a six for strapping lad who was dripping wet when he first burst onto the scene .

Wrong! Gerrard was 5foot 9inches when he first played for Liverpool and that was in the middle of a growth spurt. Infact the coaches were very worried that Gerrard would be too small for professional football as he was smaller than Michael Owen until he had that spurt of growth. He in fact grew so fast that he outgrew his strength and they had to ease him through it.

so he was a 5 foot 9 dripping wet waif then who as mick says wouldnt make it ? 

Feck me. Five foot nothing and five foot nine are NOT the same thing. The point I'm making which is perfectly simple to understand, is these slightly built apprenitce David Silvas will not cut it in England. Anyway let me get back to thinking if I can come up with ANY player who has come through the ranks to star for a big four club 

Size means feck all if you have the talent mick - plenty of players around the world and through the years have proved that theory .

[bigmick]

Ashley Cole, Tony Adams, Michael Thomas etc etc.

[GYBS]

Ashley Cole, Tony Adams, Michael Thomas etc etc.

are you going to constantly ignore my correction then mick just like my list of english lads in academy

[bigmick]

this thread seems to have developed in a bit of a meandering moan about "bloody foreigners"   


There's bound to be a bit of latin bias, given the boss's origins - but even then I don't think there's any real evidence that our academy is more full of invaders than any other club (GYBS' posts of our youth squads seem to be a little ignored as they don't fit dogma )

The fact that bigmick is desperate enough to quote manchega  as an example of how the mancs system is working  suggests there's not a lot of evidence to back the argument - the guy is a forward and scored a couple of spectacular goals  when thrown on in desperation ... our boss has trusted insua in 13 games this season

"When thrown on in desperation"  Well I personally would like to see a few more of our kids "thrown on in desperation" from time to time, particularly when we don't have a single player out of the first team squad who is fit and plays in their position. It's our obsession with "options and possibilities" players which has stifled the chances for the kids.


As for the "bloody foreigners" line, I'm not sure where you are going with that so I'll just leave it at saying you're calling me wrong. The reason why I think we should concentrate our efforts on signing the VERY BEST kids from the Uk (and in fairness if Spearing is the best we've got we ain't doing that, he won't make it at Liverpool), is that I think those players have a greater chance of making it. As I've already said, where were we when Wayne Rooney was going through the ranks at Everton?

No "bloody foreigners" from this direction though, strange one that.

[account deleted by request]

this thread seems to have developed in a bit of a meandering moan about "bloody foreigners"   


There's bound to be a bit of latin bias, given the boss's origins - but even then I don't think there's any real evidence that our academy is more full of invaders than any other club (GYBS' posts of our youth squads seem to be a little ignored as they don't fit dogma )

The fact that bigmick is desperate enough to quote manchega  as an example of how the mancs system is working  suggests there's not a lot of evidence to back the argument - the guy is a forward and scored a couple of spectacular goals  when thrown on in desperation ... our boss has trusted insua in 13 games this season

I think the evidence is in the number of players that have come through the system in the past 10 years.

Then look at how many of the players who have graduated from the Academy compared to how many have been brought in   :-

-
David Martin
-
Adam Hammill
-
Ryan Crowther
-
Mikel San Jose Dominguez
-
Gerardo Alfredo Bruna Blanco
-
Daniel Sanchez Ayala
-
Vincent Lucas Weijl
-
Christopher Oldfield
-
Vitor Coutinho Flora
-
Lauri Dalla Valle
-
Alex Kacaniklic
-
David Amoo
-
Christopher Buchtmann
-
Victor Palsson
-
Zsolt Poloskei
-
Dean Bouzanis
-
Emmanuel Mendy
-
Nikola Saric
-
Paul Anderson
-
Daniel Pacheco
-
Jordy Brouwer
-
Sebastian Leto
-
Andras Simon
-
Ray Putterill
-
Francisco Duran
-
Robbie Threlfall

[Reg]

So we dont publicise when we contract local lads, thats what we´re saying is it?

[JC_81]

These five foot nothing waifs who are six stone dripping wet simply aren't going to make it in England.

What?  Like Fabregas??

I know where you're coming from Mick and in general I do think it is becoming increasingly more important for these young lads to be athletes as well as footballers.  But the fact is if you're good enough it doesn't matter what size you are.

Clichy, Fabregas and Vela are 3 examples of waifs who Arsenal have nurtured and who are, or are going to be, stars in the Premiership.

It comes down to two things - quality of scouting and quality of coaching they get when they come here.  Clearly we are doing either one or both of those wrong.  Arsenal are doing both right.  Simple as that.  The difficult part is pinpointing exactly where we have got it wrong and by the re-shuffle going on this summer at least Benitez recognises it is  a problem and is trying to do something about it.

[GYBS]

this thread seems to have developed in a bit of a meandering moan about "bloody foreigners"   


There's bound to be a bit of latin bias, given the boss's origins - but even then I don't think there's any real evidence that our academy is more full of invaders than any other club (GYBS' posts of our youth squads seem to be a little ignored as they don't fit dogma )

The fact that bigmick is desperate enough to quote manchega  as an example of how the mancs system is working  suggests there's not a lot of evidence to back the argument - the guy is a forward and scored a couple of spectacular goals  when thrown on in desperation ... our boss has trusted insua in 13 games this season

I think the evidence is in the number of players that have come through the system in the past 10 years.

Then look at how many of the players who have graduated from the Academy compared to how many have been brought in   :-

-
David Martin
-
Adam Hammill
-
Ryan Crowther
-
Mikel San Jose Dominguez
-
Gerardo Alfredo Bruna Blanco
-
Daniel Sanchez Ayala
-
Vincent Lucas Weijl
-
Christopher Oldfield
-
Vitor Coutinho Flora
-
Lauri Dalla Valle
-
Alex Kacaniklic
-
David Amoo
-
Christopher Buchtmann
-
Victor Palsson
-
Zsolt Poloskei
-
Dean Bouzanis
-
Emmanuel Mendy
-
Nikola Saric
-
Paul Anderson
-
Daniel Pacheco
-
Jordy Brouwer
-
Sebastian Leto
-
Andras Simon
-
Ray Putterill
-
Francisco Duran
-
Robbie Threlfall

then obviously the ones that didnt make werent good enough - players like Potter and Peltier and Welsh and Mellor have all had first team chances in the past and were shown not to be good enough .

where is players like kelly, spearing , darby from your list ?

[account deleted by request]

where is players like kelly, spearing , darby from your list ?

I ignored any player that had a squad number mate.

[GYBS]

So we dont publicise when we contract local lads, thats what we´re saying is it?

well reg there is bloody loads of them in the academy so how did they get there ? but yes a young 16 year english lad signing a contract with us wont get any press where as a 16 year dutch or spanish lad etc will get some press .

[GYBS]

where is players like kelly, spearing , darby from your list ?

I ignored any player that had a squad number mate.

why ignore them thou when they have been brought through the system and have been included in the first team now ? all three are english as well .

[JC_81]

I know if my son was good enough to be offered terms with Liverpool and other clubs , I would probably choose elsewhere to increase his chances of progression.

Ditto S@int, you wouldn't have him anywhere near Liverpool given their record with young players over the last ten years.

Now this is a very good point.

Completely agree.

[bigmick]

Ashley Cole, Tony Adams, Michael Thomas etc etc.

are you going to constantly ignore my correction then mick just like my list of english lads in academy

I'm merely answering your original question as I thought you perhaps couldn't remember those players. Over the last five years, well Arsenal have got a squad half full of them, Toure, Clichy, Fabregas, Flamini (now departed obviously), Nicholas Bendtner etc etc. Previously (before your correction) they had the likes of Nicolas Anelka and countless others.

Anyway taking those out of the equation as it's always best not to include Arsenal in these things as they distort the picture, the Mancs have produced the centre half Evans, the two Brazillian kids who play in defence, the Italian centre forward who won them the league last term, as well as blokes like Wellbeck and little feckers like that who were good enough to make Premiership appearances and win them the Carling Cup.

As for your list of English players at the academy, it is meaningless and unsurprisingly completely misses the point. Yes we numerically have a host of young English kids, but we don't have the best ones if Spearing is the best of the bunch, nor do we nurture them properly because as we've shown with the signing of David N'Gog, we don't take the promotion of youth seriously.

Ultimately though, people such as yourself can dance between the raindrops all you liek trying to make silk purses out of bus drivers who were "on Liverpools books five years ago", but the simple fact of the matter is we aren't producing any players.

That is a fact, I'm not necessarily saying it's the managers fault, but it is a fact nontheless.

[account deleted by request]

then obviously the ones that didnt make werent good enough - players like Potter and Peltier and Welsh and Mellor have all had first team chances in the past and were shown not to be good enough .

And in all honesty are any in that list likely to be much better? Most of them will hang around for a season or two before being shunted to the sidelines in similar fashion.

[GYBS]

where as i would send my lad to liverpool to give him a great chance to succeed and learn from the best . he would have to do the hard work to get there .