Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

What I don't understand is what does S@int suggest that we do differently? Should we not be loaning players out because that is basically a football death sentence as far as the 1st team goes? Should we not be trying to sign  young promising talent from all over the world if we see it and they are willing to come?

I think we have two choices Joe. Either we "do a Keegan" and abandon the reserves the youth team et al and with the £10million or so we save every season buy a player, or we start encouraging the BEST of the English youth to join us by displaying faith in their ability and showing that they can progress to the first team.

Both Gerrard and Owen were invited to Old Trafford but stayed with us. Would they do that in a similar situation today ? I very much doubt it.

I wasn't saying that we shouldn't loan players out Joe ...... just stating the fact that its usually the death sentence on their Liverpool career.

Or to put it another way its about 10 years since Gerrard broke through...... what have we to show for the £100million approx that we have spent on our youth since then( not including fees/transfer fees we have paid out in addition)

[GYBS]

we have signed loads of english lads and the academy is full of them from the local area . I cant see it being the fact we have only gone for foriegn lads - there is no evidence to suggest as such when you look at the academy and under 18s and ressies .

I have never suggested that we have ONLY gone for foreign lads.Don't start making things up just because you are losing. What I am saying is we sign young English players between 12 and 14 that are then discarded because we sign young foreign talent at 16. None of whom have so far made any impact on the first team.

Because of this practise I have no doubt that other young English players choose OTHER CLUBS, because they see a better or easier path to their chosen goal of becoming a professional footballer.  Sadly these are probably the most talented as they are the ones most likely to have multiple offers from clubs.

I know if my son was good enough to be offered terms with Liverpool and other clubs , I would probably choose elsewhere to increase his chances of progression.

If thats the case then how come our academy is full of english lads saint at the age of 16 ? why is it not full of foriegn lads .

Im sorry saint but if they are good enough they will progress at a top 4 club if they arent then they will go and progress elsewhere .

[GYBS]

Saint this is the academy list of young lads 16-18 and playing in the under 18s team

mainly all english

Liverpool FC Youth Squad - 2009 - 2010
Name Role
Karl Clair 1st Year
Conor David Coady 1st Year
Adam Ryan Dawson 1st Year
John Flanagan 1st Year
Marcus Giglio 1st Year
Michael Ihiekwe 1st Year
Matthew Lawrence McGiveron 1st Year
Craig Roddan 1st Year
Alex Whittle 1st Year
Andre Wisdom 1st Year
Aaron King 1st Year
Robert Maloney 1st Year
Name Role
Thomas Ince 2nd Year
Alex Cooper 2nd Year
Deale Chamberlain 2nd Year
Hakan Duyan 2nd Year
James Ellison 2nd Year
Adam Pepper 2nd Year
Michael Roberts 2nd Year
Name Role
Sean Highdale 3rd Year

[bigmick]

I know if my son was good enough to be offered terms with Liverpool and other clubs , I would probably choose elsewhere to increase his chances of progression.

Ditto S@int, you wouldn't have him anywhere near Liverpool given their record with young players over the last ten years.

Compare and contrast us even with the Mancs and all their money. 2-1 down against Aston Villa in as it turned out the joint title decider (that game and our decision to play Martin Skyrtel at right back against Middlesboro were THE pivotal moments in the run in IMHO) and what do they do? They chuck on an untried 17 year old kid. The fact that he got the winner in spectacular fashio about 15 minutes after the final whistle should have blown is not really the point (although it did vindicate the decision somewhat), the fact that he was brought on said it all.

Now I know the supreme irony is that he isn't a local player, he's from Italy, but he isn't in the mold of the technophobe by any means. He's a big strapping lad who can handle himself, as was the ccentre half they sold to Barcelona. These five foot nothing waifs who are six stone dripping wet simply aren't going to make it in England.

Anyway as I say you need to get two things right. Sign the right players in the first place and then trust them. I'm yet to see any evidence we do either well.

[GYBS]

8 out of 14 players used in the FA Youth Cup where British players .

[GYBS]

I know if my son was good enough to be offered terms with Liverpool and other clubs , I would probably choose elsewhere to increase his chances of progression.

Ditto S@int, you wouldn't have him anywhere near Liverpool given their record with young players over the last ten years.

Compare and contrast us even with the Mancs and all their money. 2-1 down against Aston Villa in as it turned out the joint title decider (that game and our decision to play Martin Skyrtel at right back against Middlesboro were THE pivotal moments in the run in IMHO) and what do they do? They chuck on an untried 17 year old kid. The fact that he got the winner in spectacular fashio about 15 minutes after the final whistle should have blown is not really the point (although it did vindicate the decision somewhat), the fact that he was brought on said it all.

Now I know the supreme irony is that he isn't a local player, he's from Italy, but he isn't in the mold of the technophobe by any means. He's a big strapping lad who can handle himself, as was the ccentre half they sold to Barcelona. These five foot nothing waifs who are six stone dripping wet simply aren't going to make it in England.

Anyway as I say you need to get two things right. Sign the right players in the first place and then trust them. I'm yet to see any evidence we do either well.

So its not to do with their nationality but the way they are built ? Gerrard was a six for strapping lad who was dripping wet when he first burst onto the scene . 

Sometimes buying the right players is beyond the means of a club but if you look at the current first team it would suggest we have bought the right players when needed .

If kids decide to go to a lower club to get a better chance instead of having the self belief to make it at a top 4 club then thats their loss . There isnt many players that have turned down big 4 clubs and gone onto to star is there .

[account deleted by request]

Gerrard was a six for strapping lad who was dripping wet when he first burst onto the scene .

Wrong! Gerrard was 5foot 9inches when he first played for Liverpool and that was in the middle of a growth spurt. Infact the coaches were very worried that Gerrard would be too small for professional football as he was smaller than Michael Owen until he had that spurt of growth. He in fact grew so fast that he outgrew his strength and they had to ease him through it.

[GYBS]

Ok here is a question for you (yes i love my questions)

How many young players signed fairly cheaply or come through the ranks have gone on to make sustained big marks for a top 4 club bar the obvious Fabregas ?

I cant think of any myself .

[bigmick]

Eh? Giggs, Scoles, Beckham, John Terry, etc etc etc etc.

[GYBS]

Gerrard was a six for strapping lad who was dripping wet when he first burst onto the scene .

Wrong! Gerrard was 5foot 9inches when he first played for Liverpool and that was in the middle of a growth spurt. Infact the coaches were very worried that Gerrard would be too small for professional football as he was smaller than Michael Owen until he had that spurt of growth. He in fact grew so fast that he outgrew his strength and they had to ease him through it.

so he was a 5 foot 9 dripping wet waif then who as mick says wouldnt make it ? 

[bigmick]

Gerrard, Carragher, Owen, Fowler etc etc

[DrPepe]

this thread seems to have developed in a bit of a meandering moan about "bloody foreigners"   


There's bound to be a bit of latin bias, given the boss's origins - but even then I don't think there's any real evidence that our academy is more full of invaders than any other club (GYBS' posts of our youth squads seem to be a little ignored as they don't fit dogma )

The fact that bigmick is desperate enough to quote manchega  as an example of how the mancs system is working  suggests there's not a lot of evidence to back the argument - the guy is a forward and scored a couple of spectacular goals  when thrown on in desperation ... our boss has trusted insua in 13 games this season

[GYBS]

Eh? Giggs, Scoles, Beckham, John Terry, etc etc etc etc.

Ok i meant recently ( ie 5 years ) last mick as the scholes and beckham etc came through at the same time as fowler gerrard etc .

[GYBS]

Gerrard, Carragher, Owen, Fowler etc etc

as i said i corrected myself and said the last 5 years .

[bigmick]

Gerrard was a six for strapping lad who was dripping wet when he first burst onto the scene .

Wrong! Gerrard was 5foot 9inches when he first played for Liverpool and that was in the middle of a growth spurt. Infact the coaches were very worried that Gerrard would be too small for professional football as he was smaller than Michael Owen until he had that spurt of growth. He in fact grew so fast that he outgrew his strength and they had to ease him through it.

so he was a 5 foot 9 dripping wet waif then who as mick says wouldnt make it ? 

Feck me. Five foot nothing and five foot nine are NOT the same thing. The point I'm making which is perfectly simple to understand, is these slightly built apprenitce David Silvas will not cut it in England. Anyway let me get back to thinking if I can come up with ANY player who has come through the ranks to star for a big four club