Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

s@int, insua went on loan to southampton didn't he? and he looks to be on his way to become a regular for us

[Rush Job]

and the reason why they werent sent out on loan ? because they at even a young age showed they were good enough to play in the first team . Every single one of them . they also came through at a time when the first team was lacking in talent and these guys showed to the coaches that they were better if not as good as the players in the first team - they got given a chance and grabbed it - Owen scored on his debut after breaking every scoring record going and being outstanding at england schoolboy level - Fowler scored 4 in his second game after staring for england under 21s , macca ran the show on his debut , carra showed his ability on his debut and even scored , gerrard same as the others - they shone highly at every level before they got a chance . Once they got a chance they took it with both hands and didnt let go .

maybe these kids get sent out on loan because they have shone like others did before them .

Wasnt it five, against fulham? Fowler I mean.

[GYBS]

and the reason why they werent sent out on loan ? because they at even a young age showed they were good enough to play in the first team . Every single one of them . they also came through at a time when the first team was lacking in talent and these guys showed to the coaches that they were better if not as good as the players in the first team - they got given a chance and grabbed it - Owen scored on his debut after breaking every scoring record going and being outstanding at england schoolboy level - Fowler scored 4 in his second game after staring for england under 21s , macca ran the show on his debut , carra showed his ability on his debut and even scored , gerrard same as the others - they shone highly at every level before they got a chance . Once they got a chance they took it with both hands and didnt let go .

maybe these kids get sent out on loan because they have shone like others did before them .

Going by YOUR argument if they had "shone like others did before" they would have been put in the first team. The FACT that they are allowed out on loan shows they are either not ready or not good enough and in almost every case (Warnock being a very dubious exception) they have up to now always proved not good enough. 

As soon as we loan a player out you can put money on it that he will be on his way sooner rather than later.

I did a post a while ago on "where are they now" about our reserves...... most of them aren't even playing league football now.

if they arent good enough they arent good enough saint - what can you can ? every signing is a risk yoou have to take - even more so with kids - the youth have produced nothing since prob  gerrard yet everyone is complaing when the youth set up gets replaced - everyone complains when a spanish kid arrives saying we should have more english kids - well look through the lists i posted - bloody loads of english kids there . maybe a change with the youth set up might produce some real talent we will just have to wait and see . Its always a waiting game with youth unless they are very very very special .

Im pretty sure people that are sent out on loan arent just sent out in the pretence of them being sold - they are been given a chance to show what they can do so its up to them .

[GYBS]

and the reason why they werent sent out on loan ? because they at even a young age showed they were good enough to play in the first team . Every single one of them . they also came through at a time when the first team was lacking in talent and these guys showed to the coaches that they were better if not as good as the players in the first team - they got given a chance and grabbed it - Owen scored on his debut after breaking every scoring record going and being outstanding at england schoolboy level - Fowler scored 4 in his second game after staring for england under 21s , macca ran the show on his debut , carra showed his ability on his debut and even scored , gerrard same as the others - they shone highly at every level before they got a chance . Once they got a chance they took it with both hands and didnt let go .

maybe these kids get sent out on loan because they have shone like others did before them .

Wasnt it five, against fulham? Fowler I mean.

yeah think your right mate .

[JoeTerp]

s@int, insua went on loan to southampton didn't he? and he looks to be on his way to become a regular for us

Insua was here on a loan, he was never loaned out once we got him

Hammill was the one at Southampton

[account deleted by request]

s@int, insua went on loan to southampton didn't he? and he looks to be on his way to become a regular for us

I don't think he did mate. At least I couldn't find anything with a quick search. I did find a Champ manager player that always loaned him to Southampton ...... that wasn't you was it 

Joe has already confirmed it mate.....he's better than Wiki anyday

[GYBS]

youth and young players is always going to be such a risk when they are bought -  we have a couple that seem they may well take a step up next season - all depends on who we see at pre season - darby may get more chances if arbeloa leaves , kelly may have a chance now that sami has gone spearing may get more chances in the middle , pacheco and nemeth have a chance to fill a strikers slot with three of them being english .

[account deleted by request]

and the reason why they werent sent out on loan ? because they at even a young age showed they were good enough to play in the first team . Every single one of them . they also came through at a time when the first team was lacking in talent and these guys showed to the coaches that they were better if not as good as the players in the first team - they got given a chance and grabbed it - Owen scored on his debut after breaking every scoring record going and being outstanding at england schoolboy level - Fowler scored 4 in his second game after staring for england under 21s , macca ran the show on his debut , carra showed his ability on his debut and even scored , gerrard same as the others - they shone highly at every level before they got a chance . Once they got a chance they took it with both hands and didnt let go .

maybe these kids get sent out on loan because they have shone like others did before them .

Going by YOUR argument if they had "shone like others did before" they would have been put in the first team. The FACT that they are allowed out on loan shows they are either not ready or not good enough and in almost every case (Warnock being a very dubious exception) they have up to now always proved not good enough. 

As soon as we loan a player out you can put money on it that he will be on his way sooner rather than later.

I did a post a while ago on "where are they now" about our reserves...... most of them aren't even playing league football now.

if they arent good enough they arent good enough saint - what can you can ? every signing is a risk yoou have to take - even more so with kids - the youth have produced nothing since prob  gerrard yet everyone is complaing when the youth set up gets replaced - everyone complains when a spanish kid arrives saying we should have more english kids - well look through the lists i posted - bloody loads of english kids there . maybe a change with the youth set up might produce some real talent we will just have to wait and see . Its always a waiting game with youth unless they are very very very special .

Im pretty sure people that are sent out on loan arent just sent out in the pretence of them being sold - they are been given a chance to show what they can do so its up to them .

Maybe that's the reason why there has been no one since Gerrard mate. We started signing foreign youngsters under Houllier and continued the policy under Rafa........ we are still waiting for the first one to turn into a star. Maybe if we had stuck to signing English players we might have had one or two more Gerrards and one or two less failures.

[JoeTerp]

What I don't understand is what does S@int suggest that we do differently? Should we not be loaning players out because that is basically a football death sentence as far as the 1st team goes? Should we not be trying to sign  young promising talent from all over the world if we see it and they are willing to come?

[GYBS]

we have signed loads of english lads and the academy is full of them from the local area . I cant see it being the fact we have only gone for foriegn lads - there is no evidence to suggest as such when you look at the academy and under 18s and ressies .

[GYBS]

we should be looking to sign the best young players that we can no matter where they are from

[bigmick]

As I said earlier, once we started signing kids called Rueben, Ignacio, Emiliano and Carlos as opposed to kids called Steven and Michael, once we "modernised" the youth system, we abruptly stopped producing players.

There are two things you need to get right in order to produce players, and in the last ten years it seems to me we have both of them wrong. Firstly you have to sign the right players in the first place, which clearly we haven't. To those who say, "yes but what about such and such" I can name a myriad of players who should be playing for Liverpool, chief amongst them being Wayne Rooney. Now I know someone will say "he's a blue, his family are all blues, he hates us etc etc" but there have been plenty of young Evertonians before him who have become Liverpool legends. I first saw him in a youth game, and he wasn't just head and shoulders the best player on the pitch, he was the best from the waist up. He scored a wonder goal against Arsenal when he was about 12, bending it over Seamans head. He should be playing for us today but isn't. It's a failure of our whole youth system IMHO that he never did, what with being born in the city.

The other thiong which you have to get right is you have to trust youngsters. You've got to bring them on with ten minutes to go when you're 2-0 up, you've got to play them when the right back is injured rather than play a centre half who can't play there, or one of the best holding midfielders of his generation there. You got to play them in midfield if you haven't got anybody else, rather than using the "option" or the "possibility" of playing a left back there. If you don't do those things you fail on three counts. Firstly you dissuade youngsters from signing because they feel they'll never get an opportuntiy. Secondly you demotivate those you've already got, and thirdly you never find out for sure if you've got an unpolished gem.

When the scattergun hits a single target, I'll start believing it's not total b0ll0cks.

[JoeTerp]

Darby was scheduled to play Right back instead of Macherano THEN HE GOT HURT IN TRAINING.

Aurelio had played once or twice in central mid for Rafa at Valencia, but I agree that Spearing should have got a chance there

[account deleted by request]

we have signed loads of english lads and the academy is full of them from the local area . I cant see it being the fact we have only gone for foriegn lads - there is no evidence to suggest as such when you look at the academy and under 18s and ressies .

I have never suggested that we have ONLY gone for foreign lads.Don't start making things up just because you are losing. What I am saying is we sign young English players between 12 and 14 that are then discarded because we sign young foreign talent at 16. None of whom have so far made any impact on the first team.

Because of this practise I have no doubt that other young English players choose OTHER CLUBS, because they see a better or easier path to their chosen goal of becoming a professional footballer.  Sadly these are probably the most talented as they are the ones most likely to have multiple offers from clubs.

I know if my son was good enough to be offered terms with Liverpool and other clubs , I would probably choose elsewhere to increase his chances of progression.

[GYBS]

Or mayeb you would rather trust seasoned internationals to make sure the job is doen at an extremely crucial stage in the season . The young kid could come in when someone is injured and what happens when his inexperience shines through and he makes a momumental mistake that ensures we loose 2 or 3 points at a very crucial stage in the season - who then gets crucified for it ? the player ? the manager ? . Rafa at times has brought on a couple of youth players at stages - spearing as had a couple , darby as well and even kelly . None of them are Rueben , Rafeal etc etc all english/british lads .

As i said look through the lists and you will see bloody loads of english lads in there - the academy is full of them .

Then look at the price some off the young english kids go for - Walcott - 10 million plus, Ramsey - 6 odd million , Bale 7 million .

We have signed plenty of english lads from lower leagues while also  signing foriegn players .

Maybe its the coaches that need to be looked at hence why we have a new set up in place - people who have already nutured some of the best talent in the world . 

Bar Rooney what other scousers have really burst through since gerrard - in fact since Rooney what other english player has hit the big stage yet since then how many world class foreigen players have hit the world stage ?

Maybe its time to face facts and look and see that english footballers maybe arent as good as their counterparts around the world bar the odd few special ones .