Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

Anyone naive enough to believe or depend upon a football manager´s promise to get fourth place must live a very sheltered life.

Managers and teams under pressure will say anything to retain fan support during games to help the team believe they can achieve.

[red37]

Well he wasn't exactly going to come out and say "We haven't got a cat in hell's chance of making 4th" 

Despite it being the truth of the matter ultimately.

[Reg]

'Lies and broken promises'.  An easy to make statement and equally easy to be misunderstood in the light of a terrible season.

Lets consider from the business point fo view, not football. Rafa signed a 5 year contract last year when he could have declined. Obviously he was aware fo the business plan which included a squad investment budget plus some assurance that either the owners wouldnt sell up or sell 30% to raise capital to reduce the debt and therefore improve our ability to borrow money. Basis that he signed and got the key players to extend their contracts as well, ie the building blocks were being put in place for the next 5 years - the key players were equally convinced.

What changed was the financial ruin of both H&G, G sold his hockey team, H has tried to sell his Dallas 'franchise' whilst defaulting on multi million USD$ payments.

H&G realised they had to sell up, but wasted 12 months fannying around on the price which has destroyed the business plan agreed with Rafa.

Why? its fairly straight forward: 1. With their finances, they dont have 50 million cash to give Rafa for transfers, 2. With the banks calling their loans in and forcing an MD (Purslow) on them, clearly the banks werent going to extend the facility to cover a transfer kitty, 3. Even if 2 parties are supposedly in discussion to buy the club,  neither the new owners will sanction a cash injection before they´ve finalised any purchase agreed nor will they agree to a loan taken out by the club/H&G on the shockingly high terms those cowboys are forced to pay to get cash.

So yes, it is lies and broken promises, the 5 year deal / 5 year plan is in place, the manager signed, the key players signed and suddenly the promises funds - from H&G, or banks, or new owners has not materialised. Rafa can see on 1st May the funds wont be available for the summer transfer window and he´s blowing his top.

If he does walk out, it wont be because of one terrible season´s results, it will be because he´s fed up of cheap promises, bankrupt owners and  a club that always talks of returning to the top with a new stadium, but in reality is paralysed. 

As I said, the above is nothing to do with teh football side of the season, just the commercial side with Rafa wondering how the club can progress without cash.

[Sir Roger]

'Lies and broken promises'.  An easy to make statement and equally easy to be misunderstood in the light of a terrible season.

Lets consider from the business point fo view, not football. Rafa signed a 5 year contract last year when he could have declined. Obviously he was aware fo the business plan which included a squad investment budget plus some assurance that either the owners wouldnt sell up or sell 30% to raise capital to reduce the debt and therefore improve our ability to borrow money. Basis that he signed and got the key players to extend their contracts as well, ie the building blocks were being put in place for the next 5 years - the key players were equally convinced.

What changed was the financial ruin of both H&G, G sold his hockey team, H has tried to sell his Dallas 'franchise' whilst defaulting on multi million USD$ payments.

H&G realised they had to sell up, but wasted 12 months fannying around on the price which has destroyed the business plan agreed with Rafa.

Why? its fairly straight forward: 1. With their finances, they dont have 50 million cash to give Rafa for transfers, 2. With the banks calling their loans in and forcing an MD (Purslow) on them, clearly the banks werent going to extend the facility to cover a transfer kitty, 3. Even if 2 parties are supposedly in discussion to buy the club,  neither the new owners will sanction a cash injection before they´ve finalised any purchase agreed nor will they agree to a loan taken out by the club/H&G on the shockingly high terms those cowboys are forced to pay to get cash.

So yes, it is lies and broken promises, the 5 year deal / 5 year plan is in place, the manager signed, the key players signed and suddenly the promises funds - from H&G, or banks, or new owners has not materialised. Rafa can see on 1st May the funds wont be available for the summer transfer window and he´s blowing his top.

If he does walk out, it wont be because of one terrible season´s results, it will be because he´s fed up of cheap promises, bankrupt owners and  a club that always talks of returning to the top with a new stadium, but in reality is paralysed. 

As I said, the above is nothing to do with teh football side of the season, just the commercial side with Rafa wondering how the club can progress without cash.

This hides the fact that Rafa had money last summer and spent it. This seasons results have very little or nothing to do with the yanks.
Rafas the gaffer

[Reg]

Yes he had money and we had a terrible season however try to put the footy aside and just see it as promises H&G made in terms of transfer funds over a 5 year plan that have now proved to be worthless blah blah blah - thats why Rafa´s pi$$ed off.

[puroresu]

Well he wasn't exactly going to come out and say "We haven't got a cat in hell's chance of making 4th" 

Despite it being the truth of the matter ultimately.

No he wouldnt say that but there is no way he had to gurantee 4th.  He could of easily answered the question without promising 4th place.  However a Manager feeling under pressue tends to say say silly things and I bet Rafa straight after he said that regretted it!!

Also all this control Rafa wanted at the club was crazy.  He knows that he has no chance at all having so much control anywhere else.  Whether it was Juve or Real Madrid neither club would allow him to start demanding the control he was after at LFC.

[Sir Roger]

Yes he had money and we had a terrible season however try to put the footy aside and just see it as promises H&G made in terms of transfer funds over a 5 year plan that have now proved to be worthless blah blah blah - thats why Rafa´s pi$$ed off.

Put the footy aside?
Oh. Ok then
Maybe we should just be called Liverpool Club and not worry about how bad the managers got the players performing?
Rafas pi'ssed off?
Its a good job he didnt bump into me and my mates outside Anfield yesterday. He might have got really annoyed at what we were saying about him...

[Ben Patrick]

What people seem to conveniently forget is that Rafa is in control of the team. I hate the yanks as much as anybody. They are a pair of cu'nts without a doubt who have made us look like a shower of stupid pr'icks with their shenanigans. I curse Moores and Parry for inviting them into our home.
But this is Rafas team.
Full stop. He has bought and sold plenty since he came here. He has spent huge amounts of money, and recouped some as well. But the fact remains that anyone who is still on our books is here because Rafa wants them here, regardless of how good or bad they are.
Why should he be given more money? To improve his squad? When will he get it right? How long and how much does he need?
Why is he blaming someone else for his teams lack of success? The yanks are an easy target and Rafa knows it. So he spins us round and round and they become the enemy. Are they the ones whove brought us to our knees finishing outside the top six and getting us knocked out of all cups? Are they the ones who made us draw against dross and lose against sh'ite? Are they were the ones who prevented us from winning the easiest European trophy while two teams who are not even in the top ten of their leagues are in the final?
He doesnt fool me with all his posturing and excuses. His treatment of the fans has been appalling. Talking about juventus and how he could have gone for big money somewhere else? Disgraceful and disrespectful and all those who support him are bigger mugs for doing it.
I personally have had enough. He wont change because he doesnt want to. He has convinced himself, and others, that he is blameless in all of this. He is playing the victim and hes conned others into believing him. Others who want him to go are frightened of who will replace them. I am too, but we cant go on like this.
Some say " Better the devil you know". Well I know Rafa and I think he should fulfill his destiny somewhere else because what Ive seen this season fills me with more fear if he decides to stay.

That's a good post that.

[club_Levis]

I thought this is a thread about Rafa's broken promise of fourth place.

me too..

[tubby]

Well it's not smartarse it's about the lies from our owners since the day they took over this club.

[Reg]

Yes he had money and we had a terrible season however try to put the footy aside and just see it as promises H&G made in terms of transfer funds over a 5 year plan that have now proved to be worthless blah blah blah - thats why Rafa´s pi$$ed off.

Put the footy aside?
Oh. Ok then
Maybe we should just be called Liverpool Club and not worry about how bad the managers got the players performing?
Rafas pi'ssed off?
Its a good job he didnt bump into me and my mates outside Anfield yesterday. He might have got really annoyed at what we were saying about him...

Sure, if you think there is no connection between what goes on off the field and on it, then you´re right.

If so, theres no point trying to have a balanced discussion either.

[Sir Roger]

Yes he had money and we had a terrible season however try to put the footy aside and just see it as promises H&G made in terms of transfer funds over a 5 year plan that have now proved to be worthless blah blah blah - thats why Rafa´s pi$$ed off.

Put the footy aside?
Oh. Ok then
Maybe we should just be called Liverpool Club and not worry about how bad the managers got the players performing?
Rafas pi'ssed off?
Its a good job he didnt bump into me and my mates outside Anfield yesterday. He might have got really annoyed at what we were saying about him...

Sure, if you think there is no connection between what goes on off the field and on it, then you´re right.

If so, theres no point trying to have a balanced discussion either.

Im not saying theres no connection
But I dont believe the yanks have had a major influence on the way the team has performed game after game, week after week. They didnt pick the team, choose the formation, follow foolish tactics or make cr'ap substitutions. I think you'll find that someone else did that. And so to use this as an excuse, when theres no argument he had money last summer, is a bit of a smokescreen for Rafas incompetence?

[Reg]

Look I agree rafas made some well strange decisions, last season it was all rotation, this season his silly halfhour centred around substitutions however all of us - and I´m defo in that catigory find it difficult to perform when you´ve got a major issue pressurising you.

As I´ve said a few times, a manager doesnt go from 2nd place in the league and consistent success in europe to trash in 12 months. The players heads dont go down as they did this season whilst playing for a successful and popular manager without something else going on.

Anyway I´ve made my point, for me he deserves another season as long as he gets the transfer funds.

[Ben Patrick]

Look I agree rafas made some well strange decisions, last season it was all rotation, this season his silly halfhour centred around substitutions however all of us - and I´m defo in that catigory find it difficult to perform when you´ve got a major issue pressurising you.

As I´ve said a few times, a manager doesnt go from 2nd place in the league and consistent success in europe to trash in 12 months. The players heads dont go down as they did this season whilst playing for a successful and popular manager without something else going on.

Anyway I´ve made my point, for me he deserves another season as long as he gets the transfer funds.

feck that, to waste even more 

[Sir Roger]

Look I agree rafas made some well strange decisions, last season it was all rotation, this season his silly halfhour centred around substitutions however all of us - and I´m defo in that catigory find it difficult to perform when you´ve got a major issue pressurising you.

As I´ve said a few times, a manager doesnt go from 2nd place in the league and consistent success in europe to trash in 12 months. The players heads dont go down as they did this season whilst playing for a successful and popular manager without something else going on.

Anyway I´ve made my point, for me he deserves another season as long as he gets the transfer funds.

feck that, to waste even more 

This is the elephant in the room
All the money hes had and spent over the years and hes no nearer the league title.
Some would have us believe hes had his hands tied and only been able to buy dross. Then they point out Reina, Alonso and Torres were his buys so that cant be true.
I dont know how many players have come in and out since hes been here or how much hes spent. But I would guess that its a fair amount of both. Does that tells us hes too picky, or that he hasnt got a feckin clue or indeed has some plan as to what he wants team wise but cant afford it?
Or all three?